Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

P

Phil1

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 3, 2009
465
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Minot N.D.
#1
A previously undisclosed, classified stealth helicopter apparently was part of the U.S. task force that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan on May 1.

The exact type of helicopter is unknown but it appears to be a highly modified version of an H-60 Blackhawk. Photos disseminated via the European PressPhoto agency and attributed to an anonymous stringer show that the helicopter’s tail features stealth-configured shapes on the boom and the tail rotor hub fairings, swept stabilizers and a “dishpan” cover over a five-or-six-blade tail rotor. It has a silver-loaded infrared suppression finish similar to that seen on V-22s.

See AviationWeek.com/ares for some photographs.

The aircraft was damaged during the mission and abandoned. The mission team destroyed most of the airframe but its tail section landed outside the wall of the target compound and escaped demolition.

Stealth helicopter technology is not new and was applied extensively to the Boeing/Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche, cancelled in 2004. Compared with fixed-wing stealth, more emphasis is usually placed on noise and infrared signatures.

Noise can be reduced and made less conspicuous by adding blades to the main and tail rotors. It can also be reduced by aerodynamic modifications and flight control changes that make it possible to reduce rotor rpm, particularly in forward flight below maximum speed. Infrared reduction measures are crucial - the Comanche had an elaborate system of exhaust ducts and fresh-air ejectors in its tailboom.

Radar cross-section (RCS) reduction measures include flattened and canted body sides, making landing gear and other features retractable, and adding fairings over the rotor hubs. It usually is not possible to achieve the same - you can’t make a helo as radar-stealthy as a fixed-wing airplane, but helicopters generally operate at low altitude in ground clutter. Reducing RCS also makes jamming more effective, whether from the aircraft itself or from a standoff jammer.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/s...0Stealth%20Helo
 
#5
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

Reducing the radar cross-section of a Blackhawk? Have they ever seen a Blackhawk? It's not exactly a small bird. How are they going to do away with those huge doors with windows? What about the gunner hatches? Where do they plan on retracting the landing gear into? There's no space in that shell for such a hydraulic setup. Which is why they went with a fixed landing gear setup in the first place.

Using a high blade count on the rotor assembly is done to improve stability and maneuverability, if using the same length blades. If the blades are shorter then they are probably setup for greater pitch control.

I would think a SOC unit would want the greater pitch control for faster take off and a faster cyclic rate. That doesn't equate to a stealth helo though. Just pointing out the obvious to anyone that's ever flown one.

Me thinks this is more BS from the grapevine.
 
#6
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nidstyles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me thinks this is more BS from the grapevine. </div></div>

Agreed
 
#11
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

Have been thinking this over today, and have a few questions...

IF it was stealth aircraft, why wouldnt the SEALS have gone over the wall and destroy it too? Or wouldnt one think that our Military would have sent in a drone and blew it up with some missiles to keep it secret, IF it had the secret stealth coating and other important stealth features, that other countries dont have?
 
#12
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IF it was stealth aircraft, </div></div>

Old saying,
Why bait just one stump, when you can bait 3-4 for the same price?
 
#14
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno about you guys but I see 'black helicopters' all the time for some reason they're always following me... </div></div>


Whew, Im glad Im not the only one.
 
#15
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno about you guys but I see 'black helicopters' all the time for some reason they're always following me... </div></div>


Whew, Im glad Im not the only one.

</div></div>

Crap, they're on to you too! I'll put a custom made silver hat in the mail for you. It should help block their transmissions.
 
#17
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dunno about you guys but I see 'black helicopters' all the time for some reason they're always following me... </div></div>


Whew, Im glad Im not the only one.

</div></div>

Crap, they're on to you too! I'll put a custom made silver hat in the mail for you. It should help block their transmissions. </div></div>



It's paranoia it's just paranoia! Not if they're after me it's not!
 
#18
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nidstyles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reducing the radar cross-section of a Blackhawk? Have they ever seen a Blackhawk? It's not exactly a small bird. How are they going to do away with those huge doors with windows? What about the gunner hatches? Where do they plan on retracting the landing gear into? There's no space in that shell for such a hydraulic setup. Which is why they went with a fixed landing gear setup in the first place.

Using a high blade count on the rotor assembly is done to improve stability and maneuverability, if using the same length blades. If the blades are shorter then they are probably setup for greater pitch control.

I would think a SOC unit would want the greater pitch control for faster take off and a faster cyclic rate. That doesn't equate to a stealth helo though. Just pointing out the obvious to anyone that's ever flown one.

Me thinks this is more BS from the grapevine. </div></div>

I agree, the blackhawk would make a horrible platform for a stealth helicopter.
 
#21
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magstang1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow. Some breaking intel in the commentary. An EMP and a cyber attack was also executed in the attack. </div></div>

Yeah, my brothers cousin who knows a guy in the FBI who is neighbors with a CIA operative knows the guy who built that very EMP at Area 51. The cyber attack was carried out by Will Smith in his stolen alien spacecraft.and was heard yelling 'I ain't heard no fat lady' after dropping his load on Bin Laden's high tech lair.
 
#23
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TF160 Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Story I'm hearing it the piece is a fake. Intentionally left to confuse the bad guys. It was carried in by the MH-47s and positioned intentionally. </div></div>
Which means the crash also was deliberate, unless we're expected to believe they fly every mission hauling around the decoy piece in the back of the shithook, waiting for just such an occurrence.
 
#24
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

yaaa, i see "Black Helicopters" every day sometimes 6 or 7, they usually are heading towards the border, their flight path is directed over our area due to TIA and DMAFB flight/take off/landing patterns.

i believe there is one at the BP Headquarters at the DMAFB enclosure, i see one always covered, and i have seen one with my binoculars at a very high altitude that has a tail section very similar to the one in photo of the crashed helo in Abottadad.
 
#26
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

"The destroyed helicopter's tail rotor sits near the compound where U.S. Navy SEALs killed Osama bin Laden". Reuters photo:

tail_rotor.jpg


"The crash of a helicopter involved in the raid on Osama bin Laden's Pakistani hideout has prompted intense speculation about whether the aircraft was specially modified to fly stealthily—and whether its remains could offer hostile governments clues to sensitive U.S. military technology."

"Remnants of the helicopter, including a nearly intact piece of its tail, suggested that the aircraft involved in the raid wasn't the typical MH-60 Black Hawk flown by special-operations forces. Aviation experts who scrutinized photos of the scene say the tail had unusual features that suggested the helicopter had been extensively modified to fly quietly, while appearing less visible to radar."

"The U.S. military has tried in the past to build a stealth helicopter, but has kept secret if it has indeed succeeded.

The wreckage in Abbottabad appeared to have exotic coatings and distinct surfaces and edges reminiscent of stealth aircraft such as the B-2 bomber and the F-22 fighter, aviation experts say. Equally important, they pointed to an unusual dishpan-shaped cover over the tail rotor, perhaps designed to make the aircraft quieter." And more at:

Crashed Copter Sparks Concern About Secrets
 
#28
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well at least it crashes quietly. </div></div>
May not have been that quiet. A local was online at the time of the raid and had some interesting tweets some complaining about noise at a distance just before the crash. AXEMAN shared this link in another thread:

Man Unknowingly Live-Tweets Raid on Osama bin Laden
 
#29
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

As we suspected they would, the Pakis have given the Red Chinese access to the wreckage.

But this smells fishy to me. How could they have been that clumsy? I've known too many people in the 160th, they're too well schooled and too professional. There's no doubt they'd have known which items on that a/c were most sensitive, so it boggles the imagination that they would not have had a contingency plan for preventing this.
 
#30
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As we suspected they would, the Pakis have given the Red Chinese access to the wreckage.

But this smells fishy to me. How could they have been that clumsy? I've known too many people in the 160th, they're too well schooled and too professional. There's no doubt they'd have known which items on that a/c were most sensitive, so it boggles the imagination that they would not have had a contingency play for preventing this. </div></div>

In the real world, things rarely go as planned, and even the most well thought out contingency plans can fail.
 
#31
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

Who's to say that it's a stealth aircraft, and not a Pakistani officer(or a new American citizen) who was bribed to look the other way at the right point in time?

Keep in mind this whole "stealth aircraft" story came from the American news media. If a Predator had a new angle in it's structure then they would probably say that it's some "new stealth drone", with, "possible future deployment in Pakistan."

Also to give you an idea about the 160th. They were testing the NOTAR(No Tail Rotor) System for a possible puchase. They found that it took power away from the engine so the whole idea was scrapped, just like that.

And if you guys are so worried about the Chinese getting their hands on the tail rotor then let me tell you this. There was a KGB agent who got a sample on the RAM paint used on a F-117 at an airshow, he admitted it. Same stuff was reverse engineered for the Su-47 Berkut, and the formula is still around. So it's not a big secret that Russia, China, and every Commo/Fasci country in the world could have it for the right price.

But if you take a look at the shit that they build with all that stolen knowledge compared to aerial artwork that has Old Glory stenciled on it, then it's like someone tried to make a car in his garage with the intent on racing it in the American Le Mans.

Not Going to Happen.
 
#32
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

August 14, 2011
U.S. Aides Believe China Examined Stealth Copter
By MARK MAZZETTI

WASHINGTON — In the days after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, Pakistan’s intelligence service probably allowed Chinese military engineers to examine the wreckage of a stealth American helicopter that crashed during the operation, according to American officials and others familiar with the classified intelligence assessments.

Such cooperation with China would be provocative, providing further evidence of the depths of Pakistan’s anger over the Bin Laden raid, which was carried out without Pakistan’s approval. The operation, conducted in early May, also set off an escalating tit-for-tat scuffle between American and Pakistani spies.

American spy agencies have concluded that it is likely that Chinese engineers — at the invitation of Pakistani intelligence operatives — took detailed photographs of the severed tail of the Black Hawk helicopter equipped with classified technology designed to elude radar, the officials said. The members of the Navy Seals team who conducted the raid had tried to destroy the helicopter after it crashed at Bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, but the tail section of the aircraft remained largely intact.

American officials cautioned that they did not yet have definitive proof that the Chinese were allowed to visit to Abbottabad. They said that Pakistani officials had denied that they showed the advanced helicopter technology to other foreign governments. One military official said Sunday that Pakistani officials had been directly confronted about the American intelligence.

One person with knowledge of the intelligence assessments said that the American case was based mostly on intercepted conversations in which Pakistani officials discussed inviting the Chinese to the crash site. He characterized intelligence officials as being “certain” that Chinese engineers were able to photograph the helicopter and even walk away with samples of the wreckage. The tail has been shipped back to the United States, according to American officials.

Pakistan has a close military relationship with China, and large numbers of Chinese engineers work at military bases inside Pakistan. Pakistani officials have even suggested that the Chinese Navy might eventually have its own base along Pakistan’s coastline.

Several Pakistani officials reached on Sunday declined to comment. The American assessments were disclosed Sunday by The Financial Times. The newspaper cited Pakistani officials who denied the accusations.

When pictures of the helicopter’s tail emerged in the days after the Bin Laden raid, defense experts said it bore little resemblance to a standard Black Hawk helicopter. They said that the helicopter in Abbottabad appeared to have a special coating designed to elude air defenses, and that the Black Hawk’s sharp edges seemed to have been replaced with curved parts that could further confuse ground radar systems.

Pakistan’s anger about the Bin Laden operation was so intense that officials in Islamabad, the capital, hinted in news reports in May that they might allow the Chinese to see the helicopter wreckage, but it was unclear at the time whether Pakistan’s government might follow through on the veiled threats. Pakistani officials also made a high-profile trip to Beijing shortly after the Abbottabad raid, part of a not-so-subtle campaign to show the strength of Pakistan’s alliance with China amid faltering relations between Washington and Islamabad.

Meanwhile, the intelligence services of the two countries have quietly carried out their own spy games. Pakistan’s military spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, arrested a group of Pakistani citizens in May who the agency suspected were working with the Central Intelligence Agency in the months leading up to the Bin Laden raid.

One of those arrested was a Pakistani doctor who had helped the C.I.A. set up a phony vaccination program in Abbottabad. The doctor had set up the vaccination scheme in the hope of gaining access to the Bin Laden compound and getting hard evidence that Bin Laden was hiding there. The doctor remains in Pakistani custody, according to American officials.

The C.I.A., for its part, has continued to carry out missile strikes inside Pakistan using armed drone aircraft, a campaign that has been tacitly blessed by Pakistani leaders but that has further aggravated relations between the C.I.A. and the ISI.

The relationship between the spy services began fraying in the months before the Bin Laden raid, after a C.I.A. contractor was charged with murder and jailed in Lahore. The contractor, Raymond A. Davis, killed two men at a crowded traffic stop in Lahore in January, in what American officials described as an act of self-defense after the two men tried to rob Mr. Davis.

Mr. Davis was eventually released from jail, but American relations with Pakistan declined steadily in subsequent weeks and sank even lower after the Bin Laden raid.

However, amid the recriminations and threats by members of Congress to cut all military aid to Pakistan, some senior members of the Obama administration have tried to dial back tensions before they do permanent damage to the shaky alliance.

Despite the headaches of an alliance marked by mutual distrust and competing agendas, the officials argue, the prospect of Washington permanently severing ties with a nuclear-armed country as volatile as Pakistan would be far more dangerous.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/world/asia/15copter.html?_r=1&ref=global-home
 
#33
Re: Bin Laden Raid May Have Exposed Stealth Helo

Figured I would chime in with my $0.02. The news report came out quick as shit talking about Stealth helos. This is the way I see it. Yes, we do have freedom of speach here in America. But if the govt doesnt want you to find out something you wont, or at least not as easy as a CBS news report.

Also, in my thinking.... Why would the govt allow a potentially secret Helo to fall into the hands of someone else? Well dis-information. Will leave it at that.

I know I have some severe trust issues.
 
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