bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

[steve123]

I regularly shoot a match where a fast follow up shot is required and the match can be either won or lost depending on if a guy can see where his first shot hit. I use a 15 pound rifle with a MB in 6mm so it's pretty hard to reduce recoil much more than it is now. 99% of our shooting is off big sandstone boulders and 75% off the bipod. I get enough bipod hop so half the time(especially on the closer steels)that I can't see my misses in the dirt. I even tried pushing down on the middle of the scope with my left hand and doing that almost makes it hop worse, LOL.

I use a Harris bipod with rubber feet and have never tried a bipod with steel feet. I tried a Atlas bipod with rubber feet before and can't remember any difference concerning bipod hop.

So my question is, when shooting off a hard surface does using steel feet substantially reduce bipod hop?

Which bipods, if any, helped reduce hopping?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

It's the the type of bipod, it's your position and technique.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Oh,

And the reason it appeared to "hop" more when you held the scope...

Recoil goes front to back, not up and down. You compromised your position even more to hold the scope and the recoil exploited the change in your body position. Which only proves the point to technique when it comes to recoil management.

The proper position, especially with a tiny 6mm using a brake is the answer.

Not changing your bipod.

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's the the type of bipod, it's your position and technique. </div></div>

I think you are saying it's not the bipod it's my technique, right?

I've been messing around with all the techniques I can think of to fix the hopping problem to no avail. Like loading the BP, getting strait behind the rifle with my body in line with it, pressing the rifle hard into my shoulder, relaxing the rifle into my shoulder. I'm out of things to try. What would you suggest I do from here.

My rational behind the hopping, "when pressing down on the rifle", was that I'm compressing the rubber feet making the rifle actually bounce???

So there's no significant change in hop when using metal feet compared to rubber when shooting off a hard surface?

My rifle is quite front heavy and where the bipod is mounted now is as far forward on the stock as possible. Maybe this is causing the rifle to rock during recoil??? Do you think putting some weight on the back of the rifle would help any? Or perhaps moving the bipod back some?

Thanks

 

[SnkBit]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Let me guess, it consistently hops to the same side?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span>the the type of bipod, it's your position and technique. </div></div>

ipad post, thing types terrible.

I bet your trigger is light and you "tap" it and fail to follow through... usually it is some kind of subconscious disengagement from the rifle when you shoot that people miss, because it is subconscious.

If you are prone and you are having problems, there is something unobserved taking place, try videoing yourself shooting from the position and we can see.

 

[ctressler]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

In this case, I think the sight picture is lost because we commonly shoot from less than ideal positions in tactical/practical matches, we can't follow or drive the rifle quite as well as one could prone. I think practice shooting in different positions will train the body to follow through and keep your sight picture on target.

For those that don't know, when it comes to shooting Steve is a perfectionist and even though he has won several AZPRC matches and been the points winner for the last 2 years, and been the state airgun champ many times, he is still trying to find another edge, which is a good thing cause we are catching up (I hope).

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span>the the type of bipod, it's your position and technique. </div></div>

ipad post, thing types terrible.

I bet your trigger is light and you "tap" it and fail to follow through... usually it is some kind of subconscious disengagement from the rifle when you shoot that people miss, because it is subconscious.

If you are prone and you are having problems, there is something unobserved taking place, try videoing yourself shooting from the position and we can see. </div></div>

That's a good idea using video to try identifying a problem!

Back to the drawing board. If in my experiments I find something that helps substantially with the hopping problem I'm having I'll get back on here and let you know.

Thanks for trying to help.

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTressler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this case, I think the sight picture is lost because we commonly shoot from less than ideal positions in tactical/practical matches, we can't follow or drive the rifle quite as well as one could prone. I think practice shooting in different positions will train the body to follow through and keep your sight picture on target.

For those that don't know, when it comes to shooting Steve is a perfectionist and even though he has won several AZPRC matches and been the points winner for the last 2 years, and been the state airgun champ many times, he is still trying to find another edge, which is a good thing cause we are catching up (I hope). </div></div>

Haha, you busted me trying to find a advantage, LOL.

You sure shot well this year Christopher with achieving 2cnd place. And to think think you only got into long range rifle a little over a year ago, pretty awesome!

 

[Tburkes]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Try increasing your back pressure into the shoulder as much as you can without causing a shake to develop.

When shooting off of a hard surface in a compromised position you need to have a LOT more rearward pressure into the shoulder to control the rifle, with all the other fundamentals of marksmanship being as perfect as you can get them.

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Will try it.

Thanks

 

[Lowlight]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

What power is your scope on ?

Have you tried turning the magnification down ?

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Yep, that's key in our game, mostly to find the steel quickly.

If there were a tiny bit less movement in the rifle it would make a big difference. There are a couple guys with 18-20 pound rifles in our group shooting 6.5x47. I'm going to ask them if I can take a few shots at our closer steels to see what difference the extra weight makes.

 

[randy geneske]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Being purely anal-lytical here: Holding the butt of the rifle higher in the shoulder pocket will make the muzzle jump up more under recoil/holding butt to low in shoulder will force muzzle down compressing bi-pod also causing hop. Finding that "spot" that causes the recoil to be straight back/now find it again...

still looking

 

[Jedi]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

For multi positional stuff a tripod works way better than a bipod IMHO, plus no hop running tripod setup
A tripod will run from prone to crouch standing and anything in between, way more versatile than a bipod
Many prefer tripod due to versatility and ease of recoil management, thou learning correct technique for bipod is still recommended

 

[Tburkes]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Shooting under time constraints off of uneven shooting points such as Steve123 is describing is not going to allow you to search for the optimum shoulder pocket position, nor is it going to allow you to get your tripod set up in position.

In all the matches I've shot,and helped run I can't remember anyone trying to pull out a tripod to get a shot from. I'm not saying they don't have their place because they do, it's just not in the scenario that Steve123 is describing.

When you have to sacrifice, or trade off as Jacob likes to say, one of the fundamentals of marksmanship you MUST concentrate even more on the fundamentals that are still available to you.

You can have compromised fundamentals due to climbing on rocks, which sacrifices your natural point of aim, or it's so cold you can't feel your fingers, which sacrifices trigger control, or you're breathing like a freight train because you just ran 200 yards which makes dropping the shot at the bottom of a breathing cycle harder than normal, etc, etc.

It bears repeating again, ANYTIME one of the fundamentals of marksmanship are compromised you MUST concentrate even more on the ones you still have control of to be able to get as good a shot off as you can.

Steve, my AX weighs about 20 pounds and I shoot a .243. When I screw up a fundamental it'll jump. A few more pounds isn't going to help you sir. I've been there. Coming back HARD into the shoulder and concentrating on your fundamentals will produce the results you're wanting.

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me guess, it consistently hops to the same side? </div></div>

Sorry, I didn't answer your question. Next time out I'll see if it hops to the same side. I think it's more up that anything.

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For multi positional stuff a tripod works way better than a bipod IMHO, plus no hop running tripod setup
A tripod will run from prone to crouch standing and anything in between, way more versatile than a bipod
Many prefer tripod due to versatility and ease of recoil management, thou learning correct technique for bipod is still recommended
</div></div>

Honestly I've never used a tripod with a rifle rest mounted on it but I'd like to try one some day.

Tburkes is correct though concerning time constraints in the particular game I'm referring to.

Edit. I forgot to mention that I do use this big bum bag thingy(hard to describe) and other bags to build a stable position with off of the rocks. They help immensely.

 

[steve123]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Thanks Tburkes,

I try my best to observe fundamentals to the best of my ability but it's easier said than done, especially when under pressure and in a compromised position.

I guess the only thing to do is to mess around with the shooter/rifle system and refine my methods, as well as looking at ways to reduce or redirect recoil somehow.

So I gather that metal feet on a bipod will be of zero benefit to help on a hard surface?

In the next few months I'll have a 20x47L barrel installed on the rifle I use in this match. It's going to be my 500Y+ prairie dog rifle next spring. 55 grainers at 3900fps

should have significantly less recoil and It'll be a good experiment with bipod hop and/or sight picture upset.

 

[Tburkes]

Re: bipod hop/rubber feet/steel feet

Haaaha, I know all about screwing the pooch when under time constraints and crappy positions. I could tell you stories that would make you cry, or laugh till you cry.

While you're at the range by yourself shooting off of a hard surface similar to what you describe change the amount of pressure you apply to the shoulder and see what happens.

You're not going to reduce recoil much more with the weapon system you have. It's driving the rifle correctly that will get you spotting shots off of the rocks. When I was taught shooting off of hard objects I was very surprised at how much back pressure it took for me to keep the rifle under control.

YMMV,

Good luck with it.