Hopefully posting this to the correct place. We run a bison processing plant and choose to kill our bison in the field. We are currently using a .223 for heifers and a 6.5 creedmoor for the young bulls. They both work very well and I reload for both of them. I'm currently waiting for my suppressor to be released and its a Bannish 30. We are looking to have the quietest option available with a caliber big enough to knock them down in one shot kills. The new 8.6 blackout has me intrigued but that would require a new can. Anybody have any suggestions on what would fit the bill. Shots are usually 25-75 yards. Never farther than 75 and most often happens around 50 yards. I can fill in any blank spots in my question if needed. Thank you.
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Bison Gun
- Thread starter Bisoncowboy
- Start date
50y? Head shots I would imagine? I'm thinking a 16" sig cross in .308 with a copper mono. Nice folder to make it easy to carry in the truck for the occasional coyote or bad neighbor, or whatever.
Kind of hard to beat the .308 for what you're describing, though a 7-08 running the 160 tipstrike should work very well.
I'd definitely go with either a solid or bonded bullet.
I'd definitely go with either a solid or bonded bullet.
I like your idea, too. The 7-08 has been described as .308 Lite. Does the job with less recoil.
If it could be done with a 22lr I'm surprised that one one has suggested a 300 BO. Subsonic 220 gr would probably have more than enough energy at the stated ranges and not much is quieter.
With a .30 can I’d .308 on Bison (actually, I’d #1 .45-70, but the OP didn’t state that as an option).
I’m assuming you’re doing this out in the open and not from outside the pen?
If, for whatever reason, the first round didn’t put one down, I’d want all the swat I could get to keep from having to win a foot race back to the gate.
I’ve not much experience with Bison, but I suspect they have a different outlook on things vs. the Holsteins in the video……
I’m assuming you’re doing this out in the open and not from outside the pen?
If, for whatever reason, the first round didn’t put one down, I’d want all the swat I could get to keep from having to win a foot race back to the gate.
I’ve not much experience with Bison, but I suspect they have a different outlook on things vs. the Holsteins in the video……
Got to admit when I first saw the thread title my first reaction was 45-70. 45-70 with a 45 can (I've used this) is quite; okay not was quite as a 300BO with a can on it but one shot and no running for the gate.
OP states he has already bought a 30 cal can and is wondering about the best cartridge.
A 308 would be the best choice. At all the given distances just aim and shoot.
The 300 BO while quiet isn’t the best choice for shooting very large, potentially dangerous animals at varying distances.
A 308 would be the best choice. At all the given distances just aim and shoot.
The 300 BO while quiet isn’t the best choice for shooting very large, potentially dangerous animals at varying distances.
If it were me I’d want violent rapid expansion. And no chance of exit/overpenetration. Vmax comes to mind
30 cal is good at a lot of things. Stopping in a target at those ranges isn’t one of them.
I’d be looking at a 22-250 with 55s.Loaded at a moderate level would not murder your barrel life.
The local fella here that does cattle on site uses a 223. Obviously Ta Tonka is different
Unless of course you want subs in that regard
8.6 would be number 1 in the sun killing category
Followed by 45 caliber options
Subs aren’t very exciting at killing. Need to make up with large pill that has metal to expand…
****If I already had a rifle I’d go for a short fast twist 308 barrel with subs. With substantial super performance Over a 300 blackout.
A 6.5 creedmore is the same bolt face as a 308. Not a 300 blk out****
30 cal is good at a lot of things. Stopping in a target at those ranges isn’t one of them.
I’d be looking at a 22-250 with 55s.Loaded at a moderate level would not murder your barrel life.
The local fella here that does cattle on site uses a 223. Obviously Ta Tonka is different
Unless of course you want subs in that regard
8.6 would be number 1 in the sun killing category
Followed by 45 caliber options
Subs aren’t very exciting at killing. Need to make up with large pill that has metal to expand…
****If I already had a rifle I’d go for a short fast twist 308 barrel with subs. With substantial super performance Over a 300 blackout.
A 6.5 creedmore is the same bolt face as a 308. Not a 300 blk out****
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Thanks for sharing…….weird flex but ok.I disagree with almost everything you just said.
I’ve had a lot of people say the same thing… you aren’t the first.
I’d love to hear a little expanse on why…
But Before you answer how many animals have you shot in the head at those ranges?… and how many cattle size game have you shot?
In my experience the fellas with the strongest opinions have the least experience on the subject….
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Bitches you say?
Oh boy, another tough guy safe behind his keyboard. I'll address your stupidity when I'm not driving down the highway, but I'll give you something to start with:
You said that you would take a .308 with subs over a 300 black out. Why in the fuck would you pick a. 308 over a .300blk if you're shooting the same projectile at the same velocity threshold? You have to be a fucking moron to make that statement.
Quiet 30 cal and 50 y? Subsonic 300 blackout. Whether it is a win mag or a whisper, subsonic is subsonic. No reason to go bigger than the blackout, give a 30 caliber constraint and a subsonic requirement.
Ok, I'll be civil again, and we can disagree and have a discussion, but if you want to throw insults, we can do that too, but I'm probably better at it than you. I'd rather just have a decent discussion.
1. Suggesting someone shoot a buffalo anywhere with a v-max is ridiculous. I have killed way more critters than most folks have with v-max bullets ranging from 15.5 gr to 100gr. I currently load at least 6 different cartridges with v-max bullets and I love them, but you aren't getting into a buffalo skull with a v-max. They do not penetrate. Sure, if you hit them perfectly in the eye socket.... maybe, but I'd bet you could explode a magazine full of v-max bullets into a buffalo skull and it would be grazing again in an hour.
Well if you read my post before being triggered by it…. I mentioned right before saying that if the OP already has a rifle…. (he did in 6.5 creed which he used to shoot the bulls)
He could get a 308 barrel for shooting SUBs and have a significant Super advantage over a 300 blackout…for the coyote or neighbor as you mentioned…
above the fact that a 300 blk out wouldn’t work with that bolt face…
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You are suggesting an 55 vmax at north of 3200 FPS at a limited range of 50-75 yards isn’t going to penetrate 1” into a Buffalo forehead? You sure I’m making the moronic comments here ?
As I asked previously how many animals have you shot at that range…. In that location..
You said:
"30 cal is good at a lot of things. Stopping in a target at those ranges isn’t one of them."
This is all about matching bullets and velocity to application. Overpentration isn't caliber specific, it's application specific. You can shoot a .22 fmj and probably penetrate three buffalo skulls, or a v-max and it will struggle to get past the skin. Or shoot a slow .45 cal solid lead bullet that will struggle to make it through the skull, or a fast copper mono that might run end to end on an elephant. The caliber isn't the way to control penetration.
I've seen v-max bullets explode on the side of a coyote. They are literally designed to explode on the first hard surface they come in contact with. A coyote rib that your girlfriend could snap with her hands is plenty to detonate a .22 v-max, especially at 22-250 speeds (which you suggested). You think you can push a .22 v-max through an inch of buffalo skull? Maybe, just maybe, but I'd say it is very unlikely..
Well again. I offered several options. To the OP…. I know I was different that yours….
Rapid expansion bullet selection gets limited once you get up in caliber as I shouldn’t assume you know but I will. ..
Go shoot a 1/4 piece mild of steel with a 22-250 at 100 yards…. I’ll wait here.
I’d bet you a yearly salary that 50 times out of 50 it will penetrate a Buffalo skull and Not exit thr skull…
But again that is with my first hand knowledge of shooting steers in the head with a 223 with vmax my whole life.
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Oh, I guarantee it won't exit the skull. Nobody believes it will exit the skull. Exiting isn't the issue, reliably penetrating that thick bone is the issue.Well again. I offered several options. To the OP…. I know I was different that yours….
Rapid expansion bullet selection gets limited once you get up in caliber as I shouldn’t assume you know but I will. ..
Go shoot a 1/4 piece mild of steel with a 22-250 at 100 yards…. I’ll wait here.
I’d bet you a yearly salary that 50/50 it will penetrate a Buffalo skull and Not exit thr skull…
But again that is with my first hand knowledge of shooting steers in the head with a 223 with vmax my whole life.
But you are probably right… it would just bounce off. Or superficially detonate on the hide….
It's been laughable. You just suggested a cartridge/ bullet selection for a purpose built gun that you are willing to bet will work "50/50".
Hell, hitting them in the head with an axe will probably get you 50/50.
Hell, hitting them in the head with an axe will probably get you 50/50.
Still waiting for your first hand experience with animals and these types of bones….and their penetrations… what animal have you yourself shot in the forehead with a vmax at 50-75 yards and it not have brains coming out it’s ears…. ?
I’ve killed probably north of 200 coyotes in my life and never seen a rib make a vmax detonate and not kill said animal…
I have shot 1/8 and 1/4 inch mild steel at these ranges and had clean pass throughs…..
Well, you just made this real easy. You're flat out full of shit. You have a good evening, I've got better things to do.
Works great as long as the buffalo is underneath it.
2:30 to save you some Time. 55 vmax. 22-250
3/8 AR500. At 25 Yards. Almost goes through…. Imma start making Esapi out of Buffalo and brown bear bones…
The partition loading and soft tip loading punch clean through….
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It is funny that he tested 4 bullets and only one barely damaged the plate, (the v-max), and then you shared this video in an arguement about penetrating an inch of buffalo skull. The v-max did exactly what it was designed to do.... explode on impact with a hard surface. Thanks for sharing the video, good stuff, but I could have predicted the outcome pretty close.
I have killed a lot of pigs with 110 grain 6.8 spc Vmaxs. They will put a critter down DRT. But in doing so they do fragment. For that reason would not use them on anything you plan on eating. Have not had a problem with them penetrating though….even with a direct hit on the shoulder plate….but they rarely exit on a large pig. Very nasty on the internals though.
Barely damaged the plate. Lol. It’s penetrated 3/8 armor Steel!!!!!….no shit… out of the selection I find it most suitable for penetrating bone…….Its Buffalo skull…not AR500….. The only thing comparable is coyote ribs in your neck of the woods….
Other options in that cartridge would cause overpenetration. Which is a major concern as noted by several people who routinely shoot cattle…. Not you once more.
If it punched through 3/8 ar500 I wouldn’t be suggesting it for livestock slaughter.
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If I was selling meat for a living I think I'd just keep putting 22 cal bullets into ears - which is kinda how I role anyhow unless it's going on the wall.
I use a 16" Tikka 223 and it's comfy with an ultra 7. Even with the R9 (35 cal k can) the noise isn't bad at all. Your can should work great
If you've got the subsonic itch I guess that's fine to scratch but subs aren't great for killing. Experiment subsonic bolt action 308 if you must - that way you're left with a usable rifle after the giggles wear off.
I use a 16" Tikka 223 and it's comfy with an ultra 7. Even with the R9 (35 cal k can) the noise isn't bad at all. Your can should work great
If you've got the subsonic itch I guess that's fine to scratch but subs aren't great for killing. Experiment subsonic bolt action 308 if you must - that way you're left with a usable rifle after the giggles wear off.
Go traditional with a 45-70 in a Rolling Block or Falling Block with a Vernier Sight.
-Stan
-Stan
I have not had experience harvesting kept animals, including farm-raised bison (I have seen them. My old high school mate has some acreage and his neighbor raises bison.) But I did stay once at a Holiday Inn Express.
Seems like a lot of worry. If .223 is not doing it then, to me, the cheapest alternative would .308. Any cheap rifle would do at 50 yards. And some HPBT ammo. Not quite FMJ but maybe enough to penetrate and then open and scramble.
Full disclosure, I am the the stupidest one here.
Seems like a lot of worry. If .223 is not doing it then, to me, the cheapest alternative would .308. Any cheap rifle would do at 50 yards. And some HPBT ammo. Not quite FMJ but maybe enough to penetrate and then open and scramble.
Full disclosure, I am the the stupidest one here.
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That’s amazing!!!!
I had a tough time carrying hard cast at first while I was in AK for bears… But seeing stuff like this makes it very clear. Those Self defense bullets aren’t the best choice for dangerous animals.
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A friend of mine asked me to put his dog down about 30 years ago. The dog had heartworms really bad and couldn't be saved, and this guy couldn't bring himself to do it, so he asked me to. He gave me his 9mm pistol (likely loaded with some cheap tullamo type ammo). I walked this dog (a pit bull) out into the woods on a leash that was close to 20' long. I shot it three times in the head from 5' to 10' away and it was still on it's feet after the second round. Later that winter I was deer hunting and happened to see that skull laying in the leaves. 2 of the 3 bullets were lodged in the skull. They couldn't penetrate that thick bone.
Well if you go 300 blk the 110 tac-tx and discreet selous are the best rounds available for super and subsonic.
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