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Sidearms & Scatterguns Blued Steel & Wood in Rain
- Thread starter MtnCreek
- Start date
Depends on the wood and the finish. A good oil like Watco will protect the wood. I like their Danish finish oil. For the steel Id go with a full synthetic ad they tend to cling better. There are some exotics out there as well.
My $.002
My $.002
Theses days? I'd not bring it out, get a synthetic stock and modern finish for bad weather.
Wood: I have moved from liking polyurethene finishes (Deffthane, always) to oil finishes. Banged up poly is damaged. Strip to repair. Oil just gets re-oiled. And you cannot seal a poly item, or it will crack somewhere anyway. For something as big as a stock, under all those conditions, you need to keep somewhere exposed and that is then prone to water ingress, etc. So I just oil finish wood now. Many opinions. I came up with some furniture design work in school so am used to linseed, but others are good also.
Metal: If you don't think oil is enough or just do not want to have to take the gun down enough to deal with really drying, re-oiling, etc. when it comes in (and you likely do not) then look into waxes. Zero clearance areas get oil, but the rest get wax, which is a barrier. A pretty sturdy one, really. It /might/ be good enough that it will last under the stocks etc for a few rains at least.
Everything like this needs maintenance. Every exposure needs drying and re-oiling, etc. Check fit, and tightness of things like screws as well. Screws into wood especially will walk out slowly. Don't over-tighten though to avoid damaging the threads. Carry not just oil and rags, but proper (right size, hollow ground) drivers with you in the field.
Exposure or not, linseed (starting with bare or freshly stripped wood) is oiled (oil, then wipe excess):
And, try to avoid excessive exposure. Like, if in a cabin or tent, don't bring it in a lot. Cover to protect from rain, but don't bring inside, to avoid condensation.
Wood: I have moved from liking polyurethene finishes (Deffthane, always) to oil finishes. Banged up poly is damaged. Strip to repair. Oil just gets re-oiled. And you cannot seal a poly item, or it will crack somewhere anyway. For something as big as a stock, under all those conditions, you need to keep somewhere exposed and that is then prone to water ingress, etc. So I just oil finish wood now. Many opinions. I came up with some furniture design work in school so am used to linseed, but others are good also.
Metal: If you don't think oil is enough or just do not want to have to take the gun down enough to deal with really drying, re-oiling, etc. when it comes in (and you likely do not) then look into waxes. Zero clearance areas get oil, but the rest get wax, which is a barrier. A pretty sturdy one, really. It /might/ be good enough that it will last under the stocks etc for a few rains at least.
Everything like this needs maintenance. Every exposure needs drying and re-oiling, etc. Check fit, and tightness of things like screws as well. Screws into wood especially will walk out slowly. Don't over-tighten though to avoid damaging the threads. Carry not just oil and rags, but proper (right size, hollow ground) drivers with you in the field.
Exposure or not, linseed (starting with bare or freshly stripped wood) is oiled (oil, then wipe excess):
- Once a day for a week
- Once a week for a month
- Once a month for a year
- Once a year for life.
And, try to avoid excessive exposure. Like, if in a cabin or tent, don't bring it in a lot. Cover to protect from rain, but don't bring inside, to avoid condensation.
If you want the greatest peace of mind, I recommend Birchwood Casey SHEATH / Barricade for blued steel guns and Birchwood Gunstock Wax for any wooden parts. SHEATH is one part penetrant, which reaches deep into even the smallest microscopic pores in the metal and evaporates, leaving behind the protective second part.
Back in the late 2000's, someone had sprayed three pieces of mild steel. WD-40 on the first, SHEATH on the second, and CLP on the third, and then left them in the open elements for a pretty long amount of time. Not just rain and wind, but hours of brine solution from a spray gun as well. In the end, the piece treated with SHEATH exhibited the least amount of corrosion, and the other two were considerably more noticeable. I use SHEATH to clean and protect firearms at home settings. In the field I will use WD-40. Never experienced any of the 'horror stories' about WD gumming up or turning rancid... I never leave guns or knives around for more than a week before giving them another quick wipedown with an oiled rag.
ETA: To get the maximum protective effect of the gunstock wax, you do not just apply it to the wood like you would do with steel. You have to use a sturdy cloth and rub the wax into the wood. Think of applying a pain relief salve onto an injured joint and you get the basic process. When the liquid wax is disappearing from the cloth and the wood is turning a much deeper shade of it's original color, you will know that the wax has penetrated the fibers and are now inside the material as well, not just coating the surface.
Hope it helps,
Back in the late 2000's, someone had sprayed three pieces of mild steel. WD-40 on the first, SHEATH on the second, and CLP on the third, and then left them in the open elements for a pretty long amount of time. Not just rain and wind, but hours of brine solution from a spray gun as well. In the end, the piece treated with SHEATH exhibited the least amount of corrosion, and the other two were considerably more noticeable. I use SHEATH to clean and protect firearms at home settings. In the field I will use WD-40. Never experienced any of the 'horror stories' about WD gumming up or turning rancid... I never leave guns or knives around for more than a week before giving them another quick wipedown with an oiled rag.
ETA: To get the maximum protective effect of the gunstock wax, you do not just apply it to the wood like you would do with steel. You have to use a sturdy cloth and rub the wax into the wood. Think of applying a pain relief salve onto an injured joint and you get the basic process. When the liquid wax is disappearing from the cloth and the wood is turning a much deeper shade of it's original color, you will know that the wax has penetrated the fibers and are now inside the material as well, not just coating the surface.
Hope it helps,
Old school linseed oil on stock.
will take multiple applications.
If applied enough the wood is fully saturated.
Bomb proof and keeps the same color grain.
Used it on woods for years and learned from my grandfather.
Garage doors lasted 60 years outside with a little maintenance recoat of stain each year
will take multiple applications.
If applied enough the wood is fully saturated.
Bomb proof and keeps the same color grain.
Used it on woods for years and learned from my grandfather.
Garage doors lasted 60 years outside with a little maintenance recoat of stain each year
I just keep my stuff oiled up. When I get in from the day I break it down and clean it all out then re-oil
Appreciate the info.
The guns I'm worried about are a 391 and 686. I know the 686 is oil finished; not sure about the 391. I noticed rain penetrated the stock a little where it meets the receiver. No damage or discoloration after drying / cleaning. I assume any oil or wax would need to be applied to the open grain on both ends of the stock too (disassemble)? Anyone know if linseed oil is going to change the look/color of a factory oiled beretta stock?
Beretta makes a neoprene sock that stows in its own bag (compact - like the looks of it). Was planning to use that to keep the rain off between shooting. I'm really not sure what would be worse; letting the gun get rained on for a couple of hrs or putting a wet gun in a neoprene bag. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks.
The guns I'm worried about are a 391 and 686. I know the 686 is oil finished; not sure about the 391. I noticed rain penetrated the stock a little where it meets the receiver. No damage or discoloration after drying / cleaning. I assume any oil or wax would need to be applied to the open grain on both ends of the stock too (disassemble)? Anyone know if linseed oil is going to change the look/color of a factory oiled beretta stock?
Beretta makes a neoprene sock that stows in its own bag (compact - like the looks of it). Was planning to use that to keep the rain off between shooting. I'm really not sure what would be worse; letting the gun get rained on for a couple of hrs or putting a wet gun in a neoprene bag. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks.
What is the rain you speak of?
Washington State rain forest region or passing showers in the Northeast?
I love wood and steel.
Most of my steel is parkerized though and im thinking its a hardier finish than bluing as its crystal surface "holds" oil.
My vintage 03s and Garand I don't think Id take them out in real hairy weather.
I have a couple M40 repros with parked metal and linseed oiled stocks that Id consider tools and would have no problem taking them out in the rain - normal rain.
Part of my decision would depend on what can I do for maintenance and what is expected for performance?
My rifles are just fun guns. I don't hunt them.
If I was on a hunt and couldn't take the steel from the stock to allow maintenance without screwing up my zero than Ill bring a synthetic gun.
If I have access to allow breaking down the gun and wiping it with ballistol in one of these Marsh stencil brushes....
Than Id bring a work gun and just oil liberally when out of the rain.
Is the rifle in question a tool or a safe queen?
Manly men never asked these type questions back in the day and you know what.........I am currently buying up the rifles that have passed through their hands and Im finding they are in fine shape despite their hard use because the shit was used hard and NOT put away wet.
Washington State rain forest region or passing showers in the Northeast?
I love wood and steel.
Most of my steel is parkerized though and im thinking its a hardier finish than bluing as its crystal surface "holds" oil.
My vintage 03s and Garand I don't think Id take them out in real hairy weather.
I have a couple M40 repros with parked metal and linseed oiled stocks that Id consider tools and would have no problem taking them out in the rain - normal rain.
Part of my decision would depend on what can I do for maintenance and what is expected for performance?
My rifles are just fun guns. I don't hunt them.
If I was on a hunt and couldn't take the steel from the stock to allow maintenance without screwing up my zero than Ill bring a synthetic gun.
If I have access to allow breaking down the gun and wiping it with ballistol in one of these Marsh stencil brushes....
Than Id bring a work gun and just oil liberally when out of the rain.
Is the rifle in question a tool or a safe queen?
Manly men never asked these type questions back in the day and you know what.........I am currently buying up the rifles that have passed through their hands and Im finding they are in fine shape despite their hard use because the shit was used hard and NOT put away wet.
PS - putting the gun in a neoprene bag wet would be worse than getting the gun wet and letting it dry in an apropriatly warm room with good air flow....
Get a Marsh Stencil Brush and fill it up with CLP, Ballistol, Anal Eeeze, your lube of choice.
Brownells sells them, reasonably priced for a brass and cast aluminum product made in the USA.
Get a Marsh Stencil Brush and fill it up with CLP, Ballistol, Anal Eeeze, your lube of choice.
Brownells sells them, reasonably priced for a brass and cast aluminum product made in the USA.
Museum wax works great to protect metal. I haven't tried it on wood yet, but suspect it would work well, however you would need to re-apply it any time it gets worn off. It is sort of like a really high tech hard car wax that seals wood and metal.
One has to wonder how all these old guns survived the way they did, while spending a whole bunch of time outdoors. Light lubrication of the metal, and oil on the wood. There a quite a few products that you can use on both wood and metal. I use solution made by Shiloh Creek, but I can’t find it now, they may be out of business. Sagebrush makes a product that appears to be similar called gun glow. These are both popular products in BPCR shooting.
I’ve got a shiloh 1874 that’s seen a fair bit of rain and mud. Other than handling marks, it’s in great shape. I never put it in a case wet. Bring it inside, open it up, and let it dry out.
I’ve got a shiloh 1874 that’s seen a fair bit of rain and mud. Other than handling marks, it’s in great shape. I never put it in a case wet. Bring it inside, open it up, and let it dry out.
They all have one trick:
Survivorship bias.
A lot didn't survive. Remember, we only see the ones that did survive, and mostly share and covet those that survived the best. The badly finished, badly cared for ones that were outside a lot rusted away and are gone, maybe stripped for parts if they are lucky.
Then there's the middle ground: I've seen plenty of older commercial and milsurp guns that are BADLY pitted under the stocks/grips, splintering and soft wood under the barrel, etc. My woodworker background makes me think a lot of split stocks and grips are not (just) recoil or dropping, but poor car. Anyway, if the action and bore works, maybe we don't care mostly, just de-rust, oil it well, put it all back together and pretend we didn't see the pits.
A lot of my advice is around not letting that happen. Regular maintenance on the visible parts, sure. Rub it vaguely with oil and drive on. But under the stocks you better seal and paint both sides; or wax or something that will last a few years without maintenance.
Found this while searching info on my long-neglected SMLE III:
Interesting, and partial answer (that I had vaguely heard of before) to how mil rifles don't corrode under the stocks.
Interesting, and partial answer (that I had vaguely heard of before) to how mil rifles don't corrode under the stocks.
Never saw one M1 sold by CMP with evidence it was ever painted. Plenty show pitting below the wood line though.
Who cares what third world countries do?
I may have spoke too fast....
The Guam Garands, USMC rifles provided to the Guam police after WWII, evidence black paint........see sentence number 3.
Wax works for both metal and wood. A good paste wax will do just fine.
I would not oil the wood for rain protection. Wax will do just fine.
I would not oil the wood for rain protection. Wax will do just fine.
Only problem with wax is that once its on you have to strip it to refinish with oil.
Given enough coats of oil it can be reasonably weather resistant.
I have a Hults Bruk hatchet and a Smithy spatula with walnut handle that I hit pretty frequently with either linseed oil or tung oil depending on which is closer at hand and both have almost a polyurethane finish to them now.
The spatula handle frequently sees some water, occasionally soap but not scrubbed with soap, and it is holding up pretty well.
Oil will never be the best but if you maintain it/work it, have reasonable expectations of use it can be good enough.
The wood stock should already be oil finished. A correctly finished wood stock is already weather resistant. Thats the purpose of the finish whether it be linseed, BLO, ttru-oil, etc.
Wax is extra protection. It’s easy to wipe off. Works for both metal and wood. The rifle should be wiped dry and cleaned at the end of the day after exposure to rain.
for the gun with the compromised finish, that is when you apply more oil. Once corrected, then use wax.
Wax is extra protection. It’s easy to wipe off. Works for both metal and wood. The rifle should be wiped dry and cleaned at the end of the day after exposure to rain.
for the gun with the compromised finish, that is when you apply more oil. Once corrected, then use wax.
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My only thought concerns scratches and repairing damage.
I guess if its scratched through the finish its safe to say the wax is stripped and reapplication of oil will fill in/cover the scratch.
Wax is less of a sin to me than products labled "finish" or "urethanes".
The beauty of a product like renaissance wax is it protects everything wood or metal.
I think we are talking about the same thing. I am not saying use wax as the finish.
The stock is oil finished. A light coat goes on top as an extra protection for inclement weather. It is not part of the finishing process. It’s such a light coat that it wipes off easily. Scratches are just repaired with more oil. I hope I am making sense now.
Complete sense made, more so than the entirety of my lifes work.
I see peeps post guns finished with "gunny paste", a mix of oil, I think a carrier/solvent and wax.
There guns look fantastic and the owners of them should be proud of their work. I acknowledge the wax adds another layer of protection.
Ive been hesitant to using it though perhaps under the mistaken impression that if I ever had to "blend in" a repair it just wouldn't work to well as the wax is going to prevent the absorption of the oil adjacent to the damage.
Im probably being too "purist" about it.
It would make sense the small layer of wax would probably not matter as vigorously as I hand rub my wood.
Moisture trapped between wood and blue steel is the real killer. Such as under the receiver within the stock, etc.
A slow, misty, soaking rain makes for some of the best hunting, but is the worst on your gear if not properly fit for the application.
I guess if you do a complete strip down afterwards, you wouldnt need anything special.
A slow, misty, soaking rain makes for some of the best hunting, but is the worst on your gear if not properly fit for the application.
I guess if you do a complete strip down afterwards, you wouldnt need anything special.
.....and there in lies the problem if you need to be confidant in your zero before the next range trip.
Guessing for most hunting though targets tend to be greater than MOA. It would be possible to figure if the potential change in zero makes a difference just by assembling/disassembling your gear at the range a few times.
Develop and follow a detailed set routine of reassembly/tourque to minimize any shift.
Gunny Paste is a wax protectant, not a finish. Looks like rebranded renaissance wax to be honest. Wax can help with luster, but the beauty is the actual finish. The wax is a top coat protectant.
The beautiful finish is the oil finish. The wax is on top of the finish in a light coat. The wood should already be saturated with oil, and the wax sits on top.
I think in inches so I removed the bead from the 391. Looked too much like a mildot.
We're talking about shotguns. Break them down at the end of the day and dry them off. Reapply lube to wear points as necessary. Your wood stock isn't going to rot, nor is your metal work going to disintegrate into a pile of rust over the course of a day shooting clays.
This was my whole thinking. Disassembly/re-assembly of my chassis-receivered precision rifle, in controlled conditions, with torque wrenches, is pretty good... but still (up to) 2-3 MRAD off in both directions. Fine for a lot of things, not for a lot of others.
So, that's why I have always liked maintenance-free interior finishes, and was excited to see some documentary evidence of a military force doing it for their long-away-from-the-armory wood-and-blued-steel guns.
But... wood stocks, I have read from the old days of precision rifle, that you could be much further off than that from just shooting the gun (especially pre-freefloat) on a wet day. So, maybe it doesn't matter for normal hunting distances, normal expectations of precision with the platform???
Snipers did pretty good before the advent of wonder materials.
Germans and Russian snipers killed one another with great frequency using guns we would call shit today.
