Bolt Action Rifle, Where to Begin?

[evans1010]

Old reliable, you've already irritated me to the point of nearly leaving another forum for good. I really hate to see you popping up here on the hide intent on souring any enjoyable conversation with your overbearing drivel... I hope you can find the maturity to keep your mouth shut a little more often here.

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[AHart76]

Your facts did not in the least bit go over my head, I believe that if I wished you could have me a custom built rifle to my specs in 7-10 days. I never once doubted that fact. What I said was that I will not do business with you because of the way you have and continue to present yourself in such a public venue. Also, I have contacted a local shop here in southern Indiana that is in no way a big time builder, at least to my knowledge. I have never seen Southern Indiana Precision mentioned on this site before. Even they have a 3 month lead time. So I have to wonder why if your rifles are so awesome and just dominating the market, why do you have so much free time that you would be able to assemble me a rifle in a matter of days? Shouldn't you be just as booked as every other custom shop in this country? On top of that, I question your skills in being able to build a quality rifle after seeing that you can't even assemble a simple paragraph with somewhat correct punctuation.

Honey,

You are in way over your head. Someone who "knows" and "does" as much "quality" work as you should have more important things to do than troll the Internet forums, trying to scam rookies asking for simple advice.
Hint.

If you are so into airsoft then why don't you just stick to that instead of looking like a prick on the internet.
Hint.

Laughing! Lol go piss off Buttercup

 

[nexusfire]

Save a few shekels and buy an AIAT and be done with it. You will spend less in the long run.

 

[Just Macca]

I'll paint her another picture.


It'll sail over heads too.(grin)

Do you have an acquired brain injury? Or have your handicaps been with you since birth? Hint. Hint. Hint.

 

[txfireguy2003]

It's Northland Shooters Supply his business or his parts source?

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[Spock]

So this asshat Ol Dip$hit is on the hide since the 13th has 161 posts and craps on damn near every thread. I'm guessing their will be a pile of shitty spray painted rifles in the px this weekend.

Op listen to folks like bogey and greg who actually take the time to help you out. Most of us here and that have been here for years help each other out with the best advice we can muster through our years of experience. Then you get the assholes who just want pretend they know it all and are sooooo smart they like to answer in an arrogant and obtuse manner. Hint

go grab a tikka, rpr, or savage Lrp or ba and go shoot. Discover for yourself what you do and don't like in a rifle because if you get the bug it won't be your only rifle

 

[devldogs55]

Don't feed the trolls.. unfortunately the ignore list feature doesn't seem to be working at the momen, so I have to continue to read his drivel. I don't see him lasting long - he's making it smell like BarfCom here.

Hint

 

[Greg Langelius *]

To use ignore click on your userid at the top tight, select settings, account, and go down to the bottom to enter the to-be-ignored username. After typing the username hit 'enter' (important). Save, and exit.

Doneski, and another troll get time warped into oblivion

PSA by Greg

I've been on this site since it started, and have been a troll myself. Note to self: trolling does not work.

Early on, I took a turn toward answering the same beginners' questions others tired of responding to. Found out I didn't tire of them. I then decided they could use a bit more than a one sentence attaboy and a two sentence curt answer.

In this quest, I tried to find accuracy in the factory rifle, and took some time to buck the 'throw money' approach to accuracy. Several false starts but no quitting later, results began to come, and come, and even more came. Turns out to have been the best fun bang for buck I could have found at The 'Hide.

Also tums out there are still a few ways to 'build' an accurate rifle that do not require months of patience while the next guy's rifle in the queue (but not yours) gets updated, or by listening to the admittedly sage experts about only buying the finest optics, actions, etc.

They are right, money DOES work. But other things do, too. But also, nothing works without the commitment to learn how to be a passable marksman

Home bedding, load development, 'wasting' some money on inferior products, but also finding some moderately priced stuff that can bring you a pleasant surprise on a fairly consistent basis. Like a Savage rifle. Like a Mueller Scope, and some Bushnells, too. (Note to self: the coin has two sides. One says you're wasting money on cheap crap, the other says you're investing money on a longshot, and the payoff is a decent savings down the road for a lot of folks who bother to ask. So ask!

...And for Good Lord's sake, get started on handloading ASAP. Load development is THE MOST EFFECTIVE way to improve the accuracy of any rifle, except maybe those that are already at their accuracy peak, or those that have a basic construction flaw.

Oh, and there's tons of things to insert at this point, but that's what the Hide is supposed to be all about. Ask, and ye shall receive; at last as long as I can do something about it. Others will do the same; it's The Hide, isn't it?

As for the trolls, that's why there's an ignore, too.

Greg

PS ...And if you really want to try out the most challenging accurizing adventure one could possibly choose, buy a Mosin-Nagant 91/30. Ask me how I know....

 

[Hondo64d]

Ahart,

OR is pointing out like I attempted to do in my post, that you could pick up a 700 action, a barrel, barrel nut, nut wrench, recoil lug, and headspace gages from Jim at Northland Shooters Supply, a chassis from Xtreme Harcore Gear, a butt stock from the vender of your choice, a trigger, bases, rings and in about an hour assemble said parts in your garage and have a rifle that will shoot beyond your wildest expectations. It really IS that easy. You could possibly have said parts in two weeks or less and derive a bunch of satisfaction not only from the rifle, but the DIY aspect too.

Give it a try. I would be happy to help you with any questions you might have.

John

 

[devldogs55]

Old Reliable can have a good point and still be an asshole. Since I'm positive he's not the only guy around here with a good point, and he's definitely the smelliest of assholes - I'll be thanking Greg for helping me out with the ignore feature.

 

[spaniel]

Ignore the troll. He's been around other forums for years and it's pretty clear he must have a pretty pathetic life to find this the best use of his time.

OP, in your shoes, I'd look at the Savage, Tikka, and Remington catalogs and pick whatever you think is closest to what you want to shoot. Shoot the snot out of it and you will start to figure what you like and you don't. As has already been pointed out, both the Savage and Remington (with a bit more work) can be re-barreled at home with a nut system. I've built both, they shoot as accurately was the preson behind them, 1/3MOA or better, with handloads. Depending how pricey the stock and components you choose, you can have a very nicely shooting rifle for not a ton of cash.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Hondo64d is on the money.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I thought this was a place where we could share ideas and opinions as well as ask questions (although sometimes seeming stupid) without getting kicked in the nuts. I get the feeling that if you were all in the same room the tone would be a bit more respectful instead of this FU...no FU hiding behind a damn keyboard. It is threads like this that make me shy away from this forum!

 

[devldogs55]

This is.. and should continue to be the place you describe. Make sure to follow Greg's instructions on adding the troll to your ignore list, if you aren't sure how already, and it makes this thread look a lot more like what you describe. Once you do that - there's some good advice to be found in this thread. Cheers.

 

[vwhugger]

Shades of Nobody!!! I'm stickin' my neck out here but...it's you. Welcome back to stir the pot. A lot of us missed you.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I speak matter of factly,because facts fucking matter.

Hint.

My only reply is that most of your posts in this thread were NOT factual just you trying to piss on others and their opinions....that is a matter of fact!

 

[TheGerman]

Whose blue smurf slayer gun was that?

 

[bogeybrown]

Ahart,

OR is pointing out like I attempted to do in my post, that you could pick up a 700 action, a barrel, barrel nut, nut wrench, recoil lug, and headspace gages from Jim at Northland Shooters Supply, a chassis from Xtreme Harcore Gear, a butt stock from the vender of your choice, a trigger, bases, rings and in about an hour assemble said parts in your garage and have a rifle that will shoot beyond your wildest expectations. It really IS that easy. You could possibly have said parts in two weeks or less and derive a bunch of satisfaction not only from the rifle, but the DIY aspect too.

Give it a try. I would be happy to help you with any questions you might have.

John

Thanks Hondo, I certainly see the appeal in that option. For the OP's benefit I went to NSS and followed your advice.

Please check my numbers, as I could've screwed something up:

Rem action: $420-450 depending on finish
Barrel: $300
Nut: $28 with purchase of barrel
Lug: $27
wrench: $28-60 depending on which selected
Rifle Basix trigger: $135 for 1.5-4#
Gauges: $70 (price not shown on the site, but I think that's a fair number?)

At the low end that's $1008 and at the upper end it's $1070

Add optional barrel threading ($75) and he's at $1083 - $1145
if he needs their "Taper Loc" tool for lug installation add another $28

So depending on choices let's call it $1100 or so for the core elements?
Chassis depending on choice I think we can call $500-1000

Now I certainly understand that once you're "set up" in this process, your continuing costs are pretty great with the option of spinning on new barrels with relatively low cost and no need for smiths other than to supply the barrel

However, based on what he's said from the beginning, it didn't seem like he was inclined to DIY a rifle. Also, when you look at the price of a complete Tikka, it's still less expensive than assembling his own Remington based rifle.

Now I may personally take this approach in the future, because I already have most of the more expensive items laying around, and I thank you sincerely for the suggestion.


OP, if you're in any way inclined to go "custom build" route and are hampered solely by lead times, I would recommend calling or messaging Chad Dixon at LRI. Depending on budget and what you want, he can typically have you a complete rifle built in a couple of weeks vs months or years.

 

[spaniel]

Thanks Hondo, I certainly see the appeal in that option. For the OP's benefit I went to NSS and followed your advice.

Please check my numbers, as I could've screwed something up:

Rem action: $420-450 depending on finish
Barrel: $300
Nut: $28 with purchase of barrel
Lug: $27
wrench: $28-60 depending on which selected
Rifle Basix trigger: $135 for 1.5-4#
Gauges: $70 (price not shown on the site, but I think that's a fair number?)

At the low end that's $1008 and at the upper end it's $1070

Add optional barrel threading ($75) and he's at $1083 - $1145
if he needs their "Taper Loc" tool for lug installation add another $28

So depending on choices let's call it $1100 or so for the core elements?
Chassis depending on choice I think we can call $500-1000

Now I certainly understand that once you're "set up" in this process, your continuing costs are pretty great with the option of spinning on new barrels with relatively low cost and no need for smiths other than to supply the barrel

However, based on what he's said from the beginning, it didn't seem like he was inclined to DIY a rifle. Also, when you look at the price of a complete Tikka, it's still less expensive than assembling his own Remington based rifle.

Now I may personally take this approach in the future, because I already have most of the more expensive items laying around, and I thank you sincerely for the suggestion.


OP, if you're in any way inclined to go "custom build" route and are hampered solely by lead times, I would recommend calling or messaging Chad Dixon at LRI. Depending on budget and what you want, he can typically have you a complete rifle built in a couple of weeks vs months or years.

Hence my suggestion to get a factory rifle and shoot it until he knows what he wants...then build it himself instead of paying a smith to build it for nearly 2X the cost for likely similar accuracy potential in most guy's hands.

My 243AI built on a Savage with a Shilen barrel held the same vertical variability at 600 yds as the dedicated custom F-class guns around me. My wind reading skills my first time out were no match for thos guys so it spread left to right, but for a factory hunting rifle on the competition line it drew some respect. $1300 or so without the scope.

You have to look at more than the cost. I've yet to see a factory Remington or Savage barrel that has the accuracy potential of an aftermarket barrel. I've still got a few guns with factory barrels and am constantly cleaning copper out of them. Cleaning my Shilens, McGowans, and Kriegers, I get carbon but no copper. Yes, more expensive, but not near custom cost and you get most of the benefits...if you are competent enough to bed a stock.

 

[AHart76]

I love a DIY. As I said before, I started out on AR's, tinkering with the few I have like legos. I love the satisfaction of saying "I did this by myself." However, I did not realize that it could be so easily done on a bolt gun. I am still wondering if the added benefit going that route over just buying the tikka would be worth the cost tho. Unfortunately, worth is a individualized thing, that I really have to decide for myself. I will look into Northland Shooters Supply, tho, and see if I can piece together what I want out of parts they have available.

 

[Hondo64d]

I love a DIY. As I said before, I started out on AR's, tinkering with the few I have like legos. I love the satisfaction of saying "I did this by myself." However, I did not realize that it could be so easily done on a bolt gun. I am still wondering if the added benefit going that route over just buying the tikka would be worth the cost tho. Unfortunately, worth is a individualized thing, that I really have to decide for myself. I will look into Northland Shooters Supply, tho, and see if I can piece together what I want out of parts they have available.

A DIY bolt gun is far easier than an AR. I like the DIY route because it offers so many options for the future. Wanna try the latest and greatest new cartridge? No problem just get on the phone with Jim or a host of other providers and have them put a barrel on the truck. You can literally change it out in 15 minutes. There is some initial cost for tooling outlined above, but those items are a one time purchase. That takes a little of the sting out of it. I have had several full blown customs put together by some of the best names in the business. They were absolute art in their attention to detail and most shot well, some very well... But NONE of them has been easier to get to shoot well than the one I screwed together in my garage.

If the idea still intimidates you though, get the Tikka. I've never used one, but the reviews are generally good enough on the CTRs that if that were where my interest lay, I wouldn't be afraid to try one. There are now prefit barrels available for Tikkas too. If a CTR doesn't tickle your fancy, it is likely you could flip it for not too much loss. The important thing is to shoot.

If on a shoe string budget, there are some things I can recommend that function far above their pay grade: Criterion barrels, SWFA SS scopes, SWFA rings, Burris XTB bases, Timney 510 triggers. PT&G Stealth bottom metal. Forster dies. Haven't tried a grayboe stock yet but wouldn't be afraid to.

Some items I've used aren't cheap, but are superb in their function. MPA chassis, Manners stocks, both with and without with Mini chassis, McMillan stocks, and the Bushnell LRHS scopes come to mind here.

Lots of ways to skin this cat. Just jump in with both feet.

John

 

[AHart76]

Is there anything special about the NSS actions? Are they trued or anything, or just factory Remington actions. If they are factory, I could get one cheaper from my gun shop pretty quick if I would happen to go that way.

 

[WIVigilance]

I would check into McRee's Precision barrel kit. Will fit into any action that has standard threads, converts it to savage style which you would do at home with a little research. Criterion barrel with McRee's chamber specs, threaded muzzle, comes with everything you need, even the tools. A little less than $400 I believe.

 

[Hondo64d]

Is there anything special about the NSS actions? Are they trued or anything, or just factory Remington actions. If they are factory, I could get one cheaper from my gun shop pretty quick if I would happen to go that way.

You would have to ask Jim to be sure, but not that I'm aware of. I would source the action from wherever I could find it cheapest.

No bolt with these, but a PT&G bolt would not be a bad thing.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...8/Rem_700_bare_Receiver_Short_Ac#Post11896198

John

 

[AHart76]

I'm gonna try and get to my gun store tonight. Talk to him about action prices, I know midway has em bolt and all. Also gonna see if he can get a tikka. Looking to have something ordered hopefully by the end of this week. I know there is a such thing as a tikkage, but they do not seem to be very popular.

 

[spife7980]

I'm gonna try and get to my gun store tonight. Talk to him about action prices, I know midway has em bolt and all. Also gonna see if he can get a tikka. Looking to have something ordered hopefully by the end of this week. I know there is a such thing as a tikkage, but they do not seem to be very popular.

I dont think that tikka offers any actions by themselves. And the tikkage is new, only came out earlier this year

 

[AHart76]

Okay, sounds like maybe piecing together a remage isn't a bad idea. I do like being able to work on my guns myself. If I ordered parts from NSS, how long does it usually take for them to ship?

 

[spife7980]

If its in stock not long at all, under a couple days max. Im having something custom coming from criterion through them and it will be... 4 months at the longest I think I was told? I didnt mind because it meant I could watch for more sales on other things until then. They offered to ship all the tools early, that day or the next, but I told them to just save on shipping until its all there for one bundle.

 

[AHart76]

Is there any performance advantage in going with abSS action? Or just not having to worry about rusting?

 

[Rockdoc173]

You can go so many directions it's maddening (and overwhelming) but youll probably eventually get to where you want to be regardless. I started with a R700 AAC-SD (like a gazillion other dudes) then had the action trued, an oporatorish bolt knob installed, I put it in a B&C stock with a PTG bottom metal unit, a brake, a Calvin Elite, a cool rattle can paint job and on and on. It's not a $6K custom build but it shoots 3/4 MOA consistently
and is as reliable as my hound dog. It's my trusty, ever-ready, do-it-all that I plan to have for a long time. You just have to figure out what you want to do with it which will dictate things like caliber and barrel length, then just go part by part and make it YOUR gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bogeybrown]

Okay, sounds like maybe piecing together a remage isn't a bad idea. I do like being able to work on my guns myself. If I ordered parts from NSS, how long does it usually take for them to ship?

FWIW, Chad Dixon at Long Rifles Inc (whom I recommended earlier) has a group buy going in the PX right now where he'll true and assemble a 700 for you with whatever options you want. If you come up with a donor action it may be an option. His quality and turnaround times are legendary. Just an idea as you weigh options

 

[pineoak]

AHart...

If you really want a 6mm, then get a 6mm. If you don't already load, maybe consider 6.5 Get what you really want the first time so you don't waste time/money/energy working up to it

If you don't feel comfortable wrenching on your own gun, then do yourself a favor and don't. Not everyone is mechanically inclined and your time/energy may be better spent at work making $$ to give to quality smiths who have experience/knowledge rather than working in your shop trying to reinvent the wheel using your $$$ gun as an experiment (hard to damage really, more a waste of time) reading off manuals and internet posts. Primary issue being that you don't want to invest a ton of $ into tools you'll use 3x in 20 years.

Tikka makes great stuff. Since owning one, I turned into a fanboy. I'm anti-Savage at this point unless you're going to keep them relatively stock.

Long Rifles, Patriot Valley, etc. there are some great builders and the shipping to them for rebarreling and work is worth it over a "local smith's convenience". For how much we spend chasing accuracy... I'd definitely use a quality known smith that is vetted on the Hide over a local no-name "gunsmith" (though my current local smith has a reputation for building benchrest guns that shoot single holes-so I use him).

Don't come up with a great idea for a dream gun and then cheap out on the execution of it.

 

[AHart76]

After doing more research, I think I am going to go the remage rout. I am not scared to wrench on my own guns, and not trying to brag on myself here, but I would consider myself more mechanically inclined than the average joe. I am going to go to my gun shop either today or tomorrow and price an action, I've asked before and know he can get them, just can't remember the price. As far as my local smith, I have researched Southern Indiana Precision and they seem to do very good work. John McQuay from 8541 Tactical is from southern IN also and uses them for his competition rifles and has great success with them. My delima now is cartridge selection. I would love a 6mm Creed, and now that Hornady is producing factory ammo and the RPR will now come in a 6CM could help bring it into more main stream. However not reloading yet, 6.5CM might be a more logical option.

 

[AHart76]

Also, by getting a remage barrel nut from NSS, does this limit me to only their barrels? Or are there other guys out there making pre-fit barrels that I could buy from? Say I wanted to try a shilen barrel, but NSS only offers Shilen for savage rifles.

 

[Hondo64d]

There's several sources for Remage barrels. Criterion as you know and Pacnor also comes to mind. There are others, but I can't think of them right now. Google "Remage".

John

 

[Greg Langelius *]

While some aspects of handloading can be a pain (like where do I put all the loaded ammo, components, the working space and press?), there is also a downside to not doing it. The likelihood of matching a factory load to the harmonics of a factory load is pure luck.

Federal's Gold Medal Match ammunition is a very good exception, but it is also intended to suit a competition and/or tactical style rifle configuration that is among the more common. I have found its accuracy very hard to beat with handloads.

In the end, depending solely on factory ammunition puts one at the end of a very long supply chain over which one has zero control. Putting it differently, depending solely on luck is not a viable strategy.

I strongly advise a serious consideration of getting the handloading process incorporated into one's accuracy shooting regimen, eventually, if not in the beginning. There is no better way of ensuring a rifle's optimal performance without including load development in order to find an ideal accuracy load for the specific barrel. Some generalizations can be made, as are in the case of FGMM, but the final step to.peak accuracy involves barrel-specific load development.

Finally, handloading can be a necessity, it can then become an end in itself, and from there morph into a daunting chore. Stop before that second step.

There will always be a matter of uncontrollable factors involved in making and shooting match ammunition. Many of these are controllable, but also small in their impact on accuracy. A decision has to be made about just how much control is worth the time and effort. My own personal preference is to eliminate all those issues that do not contribute directly into making the rifle fire consistently. There is an accuracy sacrifice that becomes offset by the simple fact that the goal is to make the gun shoot, and not to make the ammunition perfect.

Some of that sacrifice is simply a recognition that much of the extra effort serves little or no purpose unless the ammunition is used in a rifle which is made to far more exact standards than the vast majority of the ones we use. Rifles employing basic SAAMI chambers (i.e., all factory rifles) use a looser neck, which in very large part negates the efforts devoted to perfecting neck and bullet concentricity. I bypass those steps with my rifles, all of which employ SAAMI chambers (including my custom barrel), and see no difference in accuracy regardless of the degree of concentricity in my ammunition. If you can roll the cartridge without seeing obvious bullet wobble, the SAAMI chamber will process the round acceptably.

Consider the fact that Federal (along with some others) is able to mass produce very accurate ammunition without getting beyond those basic and necessary efforts that produce a good load with good quality control. These two factors are the ones that count, far and away, the most.

Load development is the key foundation to the process, and the other step is careful self discipline that ensures that those minimal steps essential to producing a basic round are performed in as consistent a manner as possible. The very fact that the assembly line is involved goes a huge way toward ensuring that a degree of discipline goes into every round produced. Employing the diligence to match the consistency of that assembly line is a very worthwhile handloading practice.

By match ammunition, I am not talking about ammunition whose sole purpose is to be fired in a match. I mean it's ammunition that is matched to the specific barrel's needs. By that definition, all my handloaded ammunition is match ammunition, regardless of its intended purpose.

Greg

 

[spaniel]

Also, by getting a remage barrel nut from NSS, does this limit me to only their barrels? Or are there other guys out there making pre-fit barrels that I could buy from? Say I wanted to try a shilen barrel, but NSS only offers Shilen for savage rifles.

To my knowledge Shilen does not make Remage. I went with McGowen but there are a few others. Most Remage nuts are standard Remington threads. The only issue could encounter is if the action has been trued, this typically involves changing the threads. So you couldn't use it for a standard Remage anymore.

As you are researching southern IN smiths you are local to me, I suggest you also check out Mark Penrod. Top quality work and top notch to deal with. I've done the same research and that's who I went with for my one smith barreled rifle. I did that one because it was a wildcat I couldn't get without a smith installing the barrel. Frankly all my others I screwed custom barrels on myself with a nut system, and are as accurate in my hands.

 

[AHart76]

Ordered an action from my gun shop tonight. SS was out of stock so I went with the blued carbon steel. .308 bolt face and includes an X-Mark trigger, I know they aren't great, but it's something to shoot. Thinking 26 inch 6.5 Creedmoor 1-8 twist SS barrel with a blended muzzle break. Drop it in a Magpul Hunter stock. I feel like that will give me a decent gun that will out shoot me for not an outlandish amount of money.

 

[AHart76]

Got everything ordered from NSS. Went with a 26 inch Varmint contour 6.5 Creed with a 1:8 twist. Ordering everything else I need from MidWay. Gonna add some ammo to the order. Looking at the Hornady ELD bullet and was curious if I should go with their factory loads with the 140gr or 147gr? I know every rifle is different, but which would make a better starting point?

 

[Hondo64d]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with how the project turns out. My Criterion barrel shoots great. Sure wouldn't hurt to lap the lugs before you headspace the barrel.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...lapping-tools/bolt-lapping-tools-prod414.aspx

John

 

[AHart76]

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but one last question. On the recoil lug I got from NSS, there is a small allen headed screw in it. Just below the hole for the barrel. It hits the barrel if I try and slide it on facing towards the muzzle and will surely hit the receiver if I face it that way. What is this screw? What is it used for? And do I just remove it? Thanks!

 

[JMGlasgow]

You can just remove it if you want. It's used as a pin to align the lug into the receiver if you've cut the notch in the receiver for it. If you have the NSS barrel tools the screw is unnecessary.

 

[spife7980]

What jmglasgow said. Its there in case the receiver is cut for it to keep the lug from twisting.

A single pin likely exactly like what yours is

A different version but its a double pinned rem from Short action customs

 

[Hondo64d]

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but one last question. On the recoil lug I got from NSS, there is a small allen headed screw in it. Just below the hole for the barrel. It hits the barrel if I try and slide it on facing towards the muzzle and will surely hit the receiver if I face it that way. What is this screw? What is it used for? And do I just remove it? Thanks!

If you got the lug positioning wrench, you can just remove it.

John

 

[SMTGWKD]

This is what I would do if in your shoes. I would buy a Tikka T3x 6.5cm, or 308 if you prefer, with 24" barrel. I have a 20" 6.5 and it is the most accurate gun I've ever had (and I've had several customs and a Desert Tech). It is absolutely a laser. But............with the 20" barrel it's really lacking in velocity. It will get to 1000, but not as well as with a 24" barrel. The Tikka is a really good platform. The factory trigger is fantastic. The stock sucks, but that's easy to change if you want to down the road. Lots of chassis systems or stocks to fit the Tikka. It comes with a good DBM magazine system. Just put a scope on it and shoot. That will get you started. Change the stock down the road to whatever you like. Lots of upgrade potential for the Tikka as far as bolt knobs, scope bases, prefit barrels, etc. The Tikka will not limit what you can do in the future. The Tikka action is VERY nice compared to a stock Remington. Actually, there really is no comparison as far as I'm concerned. The Tikka action is super smooth and like I said, the factory trigger is better than any custom trigger I've used on a Remington.

I would agree with this insight. I own a Remington 700 AAC-SD 20" in .308 that has sentimental value as it's my first 1000 yard rifle. However, I love the fit and finish on the tikka and by the time you change out the trigger on the Remington (which I promise you you'll do) you're almost sixes in cost between the two.

I also agree with the barrel length consideration - if you're going 20" the .308 or the Creedmoor are closer to neck and neck. If you're OK with a longer tube the creedmoor will keep you happy all the way to a mile (if you live at higher elevation). I still love shooting my .308 as it feels like more of a challenge at 1000 yards - my 6.5 creedmoor doesn't feel like as much of a challenge until it gets past 1400 yards.