Gunsmithing bolt coating

[excess]

Hi,

I am new here and new to bolt action rifles. I just bought a Surgeon XL Repeater receiver that I am going to build in 300 Win Mag. I am going to try and do most of the build myself, and farm out parts as needed. The only for sure thing now is that I am going to put a 26" Bartlein MTU barrel on it with a Badger FTU brake, both of which are on order.

How should I finish the bolt itself? It seems in reading that TiAlN coating may be the hot ticket, but am not sure. I called MMI out of southern California which advertises such coating for firearms, but they have a $500 minimum order.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: bolt coating

Very likely, the basics are best. I'd look into local smiths who do hot blueing and/or Parkerizing. Ask to see examples of their work. Exotic finishes, etc., can be difficult to sell to a buyer if and when you choose to divest the rifle in favor of a newer one. The basic stuff works well, and sells well, too. The problem with hot ticket items is that hoopla figures into their cost, but after time, may be very hard to recoup once the madding crowd moves on to a newer, hotter ticket.

I realize that folks seldom buy a rifle with the intention of selling it, but with time, a lot of those rifles get sold anyway. So think in terms of preserving your options.

Greg

 

[Mag 300]

Re: bolt coating

I also have a surgeon and did not coat the bolt but use a bolt lube from Sinclair and it acts like a coating .
Just an option
Bill

 

[C.K]

Re: bolt coating

Just get it parkerized and be done with it, I due this to most my rifles and it works out well.

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

CK - not sure if you are in Southeast Wisconsin or not (close to me), but if so, can you recommend a smith to do the parkerizing?

Thank you

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi,

How should I finish the bolt itself? It seems in reading that TiAlN coating may be the hot ticket, but am not sure. I called MMI out of southern California which advertises such coating for firearms, but they have a $500 minimum order.

Thanks in advance for your input. </div></div>

Are you aware that that parts for that particular coating have to be heated red hot? You do what you want to do. But personally I wouldn't do it. That temperature WILL change the heat treated properties of the metal involved.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: bolt coating

Have it Hard Chromed and then paint the handle & knob with either Cerakote or KG Gun Kote.

 

[Mk15]

Re: bolt coating

Send it to Robar for the NP3 coating.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: bolt coating

Why does it need coating?

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

The surface is tarnished in a few places now - probably where I got my fingerprints on it. I figure a $1500+ action deserves some sort of protective coating.

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: bolt coating

We use a bake on dry lube, I put it on all of my AR's. Its a little pricey, but does not wear off easily.

 

[preston pritchett]

Re: bolt coating

CNC
When we first started we hardened the bolts to 45 HRC. We had around 1% of the locking lugs gauld mostly caused from the brass not being sized enough or from Ackleys. When they would have to force the bolt closed sometimes it would start to gauld (myself included)
We then tried the TiAlN coating for a while and did not get consistant results from the vendors. While it is harder than woodpecker lips it is thin. And you have to be carefull of the temp they take it to because this is done after finished machining and if they take it over the draw temp it will reduce the hardness of your bolt along with possible warpage from stress releiving.
We ended up haveing the bolts Ion nitrided. This gives us a case hardness around HRC 56 and about .010 thick. Since we have done this we have had 0 gauld that I know of. We even took a bolt and cycled it in the action while pouring aluminum oxide in the action. No gaulding altho it created severe wearing in the action. So if your doing it for cosmetics I would say go for it but if your doing it because of wear or gaulding thoughts I will say if you ever guald it or wear it out we will replace it for free.
Thanks

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

Preston,

Thanks for the response. I've appreciated the service from your company and am thinking about ordering another action from you but this time a short action.

I want a good durable coating for cosmetic and corrosion reasons only. What do you recommend?

Thanks again
Chris

 

[macman2564]

Re: bolt coating

Another for the NP3 from Robar. Their finishings are top notch.

 

[858]

Re: bolt coating

How thick is NP3?

 

[nashlaw]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have it Hard Chromed and then paint the handle & knob with either Cerakote or KG Gun Kote. </div></div>

My brother had this done to his Surgeon bolt-- slicker'n snot on a doorknob.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

-- slicker'n snot on a doorknob. </div></div>

I've heard that remark before...

 

[preston pritchett]

Re: bolt coating

Chris
Like the guys say on the NP3 its some slick stuff. Been meaning to send one of my bolts out to try it myself. Thought about doing all our bolts but it is a increased cost even tho I feel it would make it a better product. Have a friend in San Antonio that had his whole shotgun done and now he is wishing he just had the moving parts done because it is harder to hold onto.
Terry Cross uses a company in CA to put a chrome like coating on his. The only neg thing I hear is that it is shiny. OKC sniper team has 10 of his rifles built on our actions and they love the chrome coating because it cleans up so easy.
I have heard of the bake on dry lube but have not used any myself.
All the above would increase the slick feeling and decrease the cleaning.

The machinist handbook claims that mineral oil is the best most versitile lube there is. If you clean your raceways and the bolt and put a little on the mating surfaces (taking care not to get any that could get on your brass)It sure makes the bolt run slick but a big neg is it does attract dirt. If you ever walked in the rain with your rifle and have little rust spots on it when you get back to camp. A light coat of mineral oil will cure this. It also cures chigger bites in seconds.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: bolt coating

Tarnish can be removed using CLR, but be careful, it also removes blueing (and skin). Any residual blemish in the finish can be polished out with 0000 steel (actually iron) wool. Usually, how well it works depend on what the original finish was (polished, brushed, etc.?); and sometimes the entire part needs to be polished to render a uniform consequent finish. Don't embark on such a project until you have weighed these considerations. Until a finish is applied, there needs to be an oxygen/moisture barrier applied to the cleaned and polished surface. For storage porposes, it's hard to beat a decent coating of plain Vaseline.

Never, never, never, ever, ever, ever handle 'in the white' metal surfaces without gloves, and be certain to maintain an oxygen/moisture barrier on the unfinished surface.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: bolt coating

Preston, does motor oil qualify as mineral oil? It's what we had in 'Nam for preservative oil with our M-14's, and it did the job. As you say, it attracts dust.

I occasionally see 'black chrome' being marketed for automotive (like wheel rims) applications, and wonder how it might stand up as a rifle metallic finish. Rims get treated pretty harshly.

Greg

 

[Slickrick0999]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have it Hard Chromed and then paint the handle & knob with either Cerakote or KG Gun Kote. </div></div>

My brother had this done to his Surgeon bolt-- slicker'n snot on a doorknob. </div></div>

Terry Cross did mine, so whatever he uses is on it. Not really too shiney either. Just not black or whatever.

Very smooth!

 

[preston pritchett]

Re: bolt coating

Greg
I would be storying to you if I told you yes or no. I go to wall mart and it is for sale in the laxitive section. I have never tried it but they claim a spoon will clean you out??? My wife claims I hord things. I have 2 bottles and as much as I use it I figure it will last most of my life. I have hear some of the transmition oil have a lot of minerial oil but also has detergents added.
Seems to me if a person could find the black chrome it would be better accepted because of the lack of shine.
Preston

 

[mdesign]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MacG30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Send it to Robar for the NP3 coating. </div></div>

+1, it is low shine, low friction.

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

OK, I followed the group with the most positive response. Bolt is on the brown truck to Robar for NP3.

Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[preston pritchett]

Re: bolt coating

CNC
Let us know how it turned out
Thanks

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

First time posting a picture so not sure if this will work.

Not the best picture either, but just got back my Surgeon bolt from Robar, complete with NP3 coating. Now if only Bartlein moved as fast as Robar!

 

[Cartman]

Re: bolt coating

Hard chrome doesn't wear anything prematurely (being harder) nor ever adds too much so that there are clearance tolerance issues? And in no way am I being a wiseguy here, I just don't know. The idea of a black chrome bolt sounds sweet to me.

 

[Cigarcop]

Re: bolt coating

Alright I know were talking bolts and finishes but what the hell is a "Chigger"?????

 

[dmgreene]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cigarcop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright I know were talking bolts and finishes but what the hell is a "Chigger"????? </div></div>
Ever heard of redbugs? They can deal you some kind of misery. They will make you scratch more than a dog wrapped up with fleas.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: bolt coating

CNC, for a newbie to bolt guns, you sure know how to start off right. thats top of the line stuff you got there.congrats and keep the pics coming as it progresses

cigarcop, go lay in some grass, you will soon know what a chigger is, lol. nah, i wouldnt do that to anyone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_mite

preston, i read a review of your rifles in a gun mag a while back and i was very impressed. its nice to see a maker take the time to offer his opinions. lol, i too have a bottle of pure mineral oil i bought at walgreens. it says right on the label, oral laxative. i just use it to keep the blades of my clippers lubed for shaving my beard, but ill remember about the chiggers. i heard nail polish works too.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: bolt coating

Nail polish kills chiggers good. Robar NP3 is a great finish, I have had them refinsih several of my handgun internals with it. Self lubricating finish, can't be beat.

 

[zepheris.hk]

Re: bolt coating

Did the NP3 coating change the clearance on the bolt/bolt race much?

 

[mdesign]

Re: bolt coating

On my bolt body there was a total increase in thickness of .0009 or about .00045 per side. I noticed no change in clearance or function other than it was smoother.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: bolt coating

why not the receiver also?

 

[packratt]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cigarcop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright I know were talking bolts and finishes but what the hell is a "Chigger"????? </div></div>
Ever heard of redbugs? They can deal you some kind of misery. They will make you scratch more than a dog wrapped up with fleas. </div></div>

He's a yankee. What do you expect?

I will have to try the mineral oil thing. Got some property in TN that has an unbelievable # of chiggers per square inch.

 

[Cigarcop]

Re: bolt coating

Yah, I'm a yankee!!.... you guys can keep them "Chiggers"

Thanks for the explanation

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not the receiver also? </div></div>

The NP3 only comes in a satin silver finish, so if you don't want a silver receiver you would need to use there Rogaurd finish or another that would accomodate another color.

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

Actually, I am so happy with the NP3 coating that I am considering doing the receiver too. I like that Robar claims that you can run the NP3 coated parts dry, preventing lube from picking up dirt. I am wondering now if I have the receiver NP3 coated what I can do to prep (or completely remove) the exterior portion of the coating so that I can Cerakote the exterior.

 

[dmuldrew]

Re: bolt coating

Looks like you already solved your issues. I've seen an AR15 bolt that had on bond coating on it run 10,000 rounds that looked like new. I sent my Ed Brown off to be Ion bond coated. I've carried it 2 years since and there is absolutely no indication of wear anywhere. The stuff is pretty damn hard.

 

[glock63]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dennis Muldrew</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like you already solved your issues. I've seen an AR15 bolt that had on bond coating on it run 10,000 rounds that looked like new. I sent my Ed Brown off to be Ion bond coated. I've carried it 2 years since and there is absolutely no indication of wear anywhere. The stuff is pretty damn hard. </div></div>

Where do you send parts to be ionbond coated?

 

[dmuldrew]

Re: bolt coating

This is the guy I delt with, he is a gunsmith that works for this location. There are many locations in the US that do Ion Bond, but I don't now if they all have gunsmiths.

Ryan Flynn

Custom Shop Gunsmith

Ionbond LLC

7856 McCloud Rd

Greensboro, NC 27409

Ph: 336-665-0005

Fax: 336-665-0035

I can find his email if you need, but you'll have to email or PM me for that.

 

[bsalbrig]

Re: bolt coating

I was referred to springer precision by ion bond in Greensboro. I will have to check out Ryan Flynn since I live close to him.

 

[Fletcher/AAC]

Re: bolt coating

I have an older 591 repeater that Jered at PAI had hard chromed, It has been fantastic, No excess wear at all!

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: bolt coating

IIRC, Ryan Flynn is no longer with Ionbond. Can't recall where I heard that...

 

[Fletcher/AAC]

Re: bolt coating

A quick vid of the bolt, I was just trying to show how smooth it is. The rifle is barely canted and the bolt still falls out of battery:

 

[dmuldrew]

Re: bolt coating

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: darrenk75b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IIRC, Ryan Flynn is no longer with Ionbond. Can't recall where I heard that... </div></div>
Probably someone there that took his place.

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: bolt coating

did they coat the whole bolt with np3, handle knob and all? or just the actual bolt body

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

I just had them coat the bolt and bolt plug coated. They could coat the handle too, but NP3 is very slick to the touch. You probably would not want that on the handle.

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: bolt coating

thats what i figured. in the picture you posted it looked like it had all been coated so thats why i was wondering.

i really wana get this done now. is the roguard basically the same thing just black?

 

[excess]

Re: bolt coating

The picture is hard to see, but the handle (which threads on) was not attached. This is a dip process, and there is no ability to mask; anything that goes in the tank is getting coated.

Here is more info from Robar's site:
What is the difference between Roguard and NP3?
NP3 is Electroless Nickel with embedded TEFLON. The TEFLON is bonded to the particles of Nickel at the molecular level providing self lubrication throughout the entire coating. The Nickel in this finish provides corrosion and abrasion resistance. NP3 is a soft metallic gray color, somewhat similar to bead-blasted stainless steel or titanium. Roguard is a Molybdenum Disulfide based Polymer which is sprayed on a Phosphate base and then baked to cure. This finish is extremely corrosion resistant and very wear resistant when compared to other black finishes. Molybdenum is the main component of this finish which provides excellent hardness and self lubricating properties. Roguard is black in color and is available in a satin or matte finish.

Which is harder, NP3 or Roguard?
NP3 will be more abrasion resistant because of the Nickel. However, keep in mind that Roguard will wear much better than Bluing, Blackening or Parkerizing! Regardless of the finish, holsters manufactured from Kydex or Nylon seem to wear the finishes faster than leather or horsehide. The NP3 is harder than Roguard.

Hope this helps.