Bolt gun help

[300zx_tt]

Hey all!

I’m looking for a new .22lr bolt gun to shoot at the range with my dead air mask on it. I’m slightly torn between a few models that I have no previous experience with.

Cz 457:
Looking at the AT-ONE, Varmint, and Varmint MTR. I like the stock on the MTR the best, but I’m not sure if they come threaded.

Tikka t1x although I’d like a wooden stock, my CTR shoots lights out and I know the value is there with a tikka rifle

Bergara B-14 rimfire, these seem expensive for what they are, again I think I’d rather have a wood stock and I’m not sure about the value I’d get out of it.

Mainly looking at the cz’s, because that’s the style I like but I’m open to other suggestions

anybody put some rounds down range with an AT-ONE, Varmint and Varmint MTR that can weigh in?

 

[jbell]

I don’t have any experience with the at one, however I pillar bedded a Remington 700 for a guy into one of those Boyd stocks. I was less than impressed with the overall quality of the stock. The barrel channel was not straight and the inlet was not even close. Although it shot well after the bedding job.

 

[AZ Dan]

If your only goal is just to have fun at a range, I'd go with the least expensive option, or whichever you like the looks more. All are fantastic rifles.

The Bergara is designed to be a training rifle to complement a larger caliber gun, like a Bergara B14 in 6.5 Creedmoor, 308, etc. Same stock, weight, magazine size as it's larger rifle cousin...if you don't need that, there is no point in spending the extra money on it.

The At-One stocks are nice, as are all Boyd's stocks. However, there is a marked difference between a $1300 McMillan stock and a $220 stock. The Boyd's will make a great upgrade for any 22 plinking rifle.

The CZ 457 MTR is NOT threaded. Any competent gunsmith can fix that for you.

 

[DFOOSKING]

Boyds stocks are cheap POS's.

You want wood for the B14R? Sell the factory stock and use the cash to buy a factory 700 short action wood stock.

The $100-$200 you'd get for a B14R stock will buy plenty of used old wood stocks.

Granted, I don't know how much ass ache you will go through to get the Bergara bottom to work. Its rather thin and unimpressive.

To me, if your going to entertain a Bergara...then really you should be only entertaining guns in a similar price point. And that puts you in the CZ 457PT price point....not the crap Boyd's stocked options. Or even go with a new or used Anschutz. That might be easier to find a wood option.

 

[littlepod]

CZ 457 MTR will have the highest chances of shooting the best groups out of the bunch. That match chamber is no joke.

If you want something threaded, sexy, and good chamber - https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-457-varmint-precision-trainer-mtr/

 

[308pirate]

Why would you want all that fucking hassle?

Hit the easy button

 

[Swaim13]

Looking at the CZ website, you'll likely need to get either the varmint or the MTR threaded if you want to use a suppressor. I would also recommend looking at the precision trainers if you like the traditional stock and want a threaded barrel

I have a T1X and I moved it to a KRG Bravo chassis and it shoots fantastically with multiple types of ammo.

The B14R pops up a lot, but if you are looking to just plink suppressed, I would get the CZ or tikka

 

[Eadle]

I have a cz 457 At-one. It shoots pretty good. The stock is a bit on the heavy side which isn't always a bad thing. The potential issue is, I am 5'9'' and 180 lbs. On the bench I am sure anyone can make it work. When prone, none of my friends which are taller and larger could get the length of pull long enough. And if you need to use the cheek riser more than 2 clicks up, it is wiggling. Since you already have a tikka, I would go that route first. If you are set on cz then maybe a different stock.

 

[MarkCZ]

Hey all!

I’m looking for a new .22lr bolt gun to shoot at the range with my dead air mask on it. I’m slightly torn between a few models that I have no previous experience with.

Cz 457:
Looking at the AT-ONE, Varmint, and Varmint MTR. I like the stock on the MTR the best, but I’m not sure if they come threaded.

Tikka t1x although I’d like a wooden stock, my CTR shoots lights out and I know the value is there with a tikka rifle

Bergara B-14 rimfire, these seem expensive for what they are, again I think I’d rather have a wood stock and I’m not sure about the value I’d get out of it.

Mainly looking at the cz’s, because that’s the style I like but I’m open to other suggestions

anybody put some rounds down range with an AT-ONE, Varmint and Varmint MTR that can weigh in?

I have a T1X and a Bergara B14R, both are well worth the cost. I sold my CZ 455 when I got the Bergara. If you want wood stock CZ is the go.
Mark

 

[1911JMB]

I shoot the CZ MTR and so far I am pretty competitive in the matches I shoot. No question a rail and a few other features would make playing the game easier I am a hunter and don't see my self carrying a 20# rifle hunting

The MTR is also a beautiful rifle that feels great in your hands

 

[300zx_tt]

Boyds stocks are cheap POS's.

You want wood for the B14R? Sell the factory stock and use the cash to buy a factory 700 short action wood stock.

The $100-$200 you'd get for a B14R stock will buy plenty of used old wood stocks.

Granted, I don't know how much ass ache you will go through to get the Bergara bottom to work. Its rather thin and unimpressive.

To me, if your going to entertain a Bergara...then really you should be only entertaining guns in a similar price point. And that puts you in the CZ 457PT price point....not the crap Boyd's stocked options. Or even go with a new or used Anschutz. That might be easier to find a wood option.

I have a tacticool stock from Boyd’s on a cheap savage 64 that I wasn’t impressed with, so the AT-ONE has me a little weary. I only really tossed in the bergara because it’s included in so many discussions about .22’s… it’s not really the style rifle I want, nor is it in the budget I wanted to be in but I’d consider it. If it’s worlds better than the 457 for an extra ~$400 I’d probably buy it. If it’s just marginally better, I’ll probably end up with the cz or tikka

 

[300zx_tt]

I have a cz 457 At-one. It shoots pretty good. The stock is a bit on the heavy side which isn't always a bad thing. The potential issue is, I am 5'9'' and 180 lbs. On the bench I am sure anyone can make it work. When prone, none of my friends which are taller and larger could get the length of pull long enough. And if you need to use the cheek riser more than 2 clicks up, it is wiggling. Since you already have a tikka, I would go that route first. If you are set on cz then maybe a different stock.

Thanks for the info… I’m 6’4” so I thought the lop adjustment was a plus but now I see it isn’t.

 

[chevy_man]

Why would you want all that fucking hassle?

Hit the easy button

View attachment 7686172

This guy here nailed it.


Buy the Bergara. You'll buy a Vudoo next.

 

[Eadle]

This guy here nailed it.


Buy the Bergara. You'll buy a Vudoo next.

That's exactly what happened to me

 

[Schütze]

This guy here nailed it.


Buy the Bergara. You'll buy a Vudoo next.

The Bergara is really all you need. Coming from someone that sold his and owning a RimX and V three/ 60 now . The Bergara HMR stock is heavily underrated in my opinion. There is actually an aluminum "chassis" underneath.

 

[littlepod]

Thanks for the info… I’m 6’4” so I thought the lop adjustment was a plus but now I see it isn’t.

If you're 6'4 you're going to need a larger stock/chassis regardless.

The Tikka factory stock will have a very small LoP like 12.5-13" IIRC. For someone 6'4, I am guessing your length of pull is going to be somewhere like 14.5-15.5" Given a standard 5'9 person is around 13.5".

My friend got the at-one, and ended up installing much longer LoP rods to get it to work for him. He is 6' something, I just know he's a lot taller than me and had to get longer rods to make it work, but it works well for him. Other wood options you'll have to figure out how to get like 2" of spacers.

 

[Schütze]

I'm over 6'4" and had no issues with the Bergara HMR stock, it's adjustable with spacers like many others. If I remember correctly they supplied enough with the rifle. If I ever get one again I'll find and fit a cant and height adjustable butt plate on it, the only thing really missing.

 

[chevy_man]

The Bergara is really all you need. Coming from someone that sold his and owning a RimX and V three/ 60 now . The Bergara HMR stock is heavily underrated in my opinion. There is actually an aluminum "chassis" underneath.

I ordered just a barreled action and dropped it into a bravo with a B&A tacsport.

I'll still have a vudoo at some point I'm sure.

 

[MarkCZ]

I have a T1X and a Bergara B14R, both are well worth the cost. I sold my CZ 455 when I got the Bergara. If you want wood stock CZ is the go.
Mark

I have my T1X in a KRG Bravo now.
Mark

 

[XP1K]

I'd do a vudoo barreled action in your choice of a nice wood stock for a 700sa. You won't be sorry you spent the money.

Of the rifles you listed, I'd probably go cz.

 

[10X Rifles]

DO NOT have the MTR barrel Threaded. The tight muzzell will open up and not shoot as well. Buy a 457 Scout rifle. then go get a Lothar-Walther Barrel to fit. They taper lap and then counter bore the threaded muzzell. that way you still have the tight muzzel It will shoot 10X better.
Slug a threaded muzzell barrel and you can feel the barrel open up under the threads. Counter bored threads is the only way to go for a .22 LR

 

[MLS2GO]

If you are 6’4” the At One stock will be way short on the length of pull. I’m 6’ 2” and to add about 1 1/2 inches to mske it work. The MTR Match barrel is a great barrel as someone mentioned with its Match Chamber.

 

[lewmed]

The 16" CZ 457 MTR is threaded but I couldn't find one and had to buy the 20" model and then order a 16" threaded replacement barrel. I haven't installed it yet because to 20" one is damn accurate.

 

[nikonNUT]

I have a CZ 457 At-One 24” and a Bergara B14R. They both shoot lights out with a Mask hanging off the end. The 24” barrel with a can is looong but not a huge hinderance and the trigger can be turned down to stupid light with a Yo Dave Spring. I also have discovered I REALLY like 60 degree bolt throws. Downside? The AT-one stock, when tweaked to fit me is a bit wiggly. Need to get the extended LOP adapter and I wish the check piece went higher had another guide rod to stabilize it a bit more but I am running everything maxed out. The Bergara carbon is lighter and more manageable with a Mask due to the 18.5” barrel. No real complaints except the trigger ( and it ain’t all the triggers fault). Mind you it very nice for a stock piece but 2 pounds is as low as it goes. Swapped in a TT DIAMOND 2 stage and it will go to 1 pound but due the striker spring strength that’s all she got. Hoping one day a reduced power version will come out and let me use all the clicks and get to the available 4 ounces (just to have it). Both amazing rifles. I’ll let you decided which rifle shot which group SK Standard+ at 50 yards and the center hole is .25”

And the gruesome twosome…

 

[jbell]

DO NOT have the MTR barrel Threaded. The tight muzzell will open up and not shoot as well. Buy a 457 Scout rifle. then go get a Lothar-Walther Barrel to fit. They taper lap and then counter bore the threaded muzzell. that way you still have the tight muzzel It will shoot 10X better.
Slug a threaded muzzell barrel and you can feel the barrel open up under the threads. Counter bored threads is the only way to go for a .22 LR

Do you have much firsthand experience with a counterbored muzzle with rimfire? Depending on the way the counterbore is done (ID & length) I have seen some negative effects on accuracy.

 

[snipes81]

I have a tacticool stock from Boyd’s on a cheap savage 64 that I wasn’t impressed with, so the AT-ONE has me a little weary. I only really tossed in the bergara because it’s included in so many discussions about .22’s… it’s not really the style rifle I want, nor is it in the budget I wanted to be in but I’d consider it. If it’s worlds better than the 457 for an extra ~$400 I’d probably buy it. If it’s just marginally better, I’ll probably end up with the cz or tikka

I own a b14r and have shot it for a few months now. Purchased a barreled action so no experience with the factory stock, but by most accounts it’s very nice. I also own a CZ 452 setup for silhouette and light rifle comps. CZs are great rimfire rifles with the 452 the gold standard in their lineup. The 455s were never viewed by most CZ enthusiasts as living up to the 452 standard. The 457s seem to have returned to that high CZ standard from everything I’ve read about them. The only reason I went Bergera over a 457 was to try something new and I didn’t care for the stock options.
Back to your question above, based on everything you wrote in this thread I’d suggest going CZ 457 in whatever variant fits your wants…other than the Boyd’s stock version. The Bergara is a very nice rIfle. I do not think it’s worlds better than the 457 though. I do like the trigger options for Bergara better though.

 

[LuvDog]

I've had/have the CZ 457 Varmint and the Tikka T1x.

Both were setup almost identically in XLR Element 3.0 Chassis.

Both shot great, but the CZ was just nicer overall. No feed issues, just better fit and finish. I had feed issues with the T1x.

The Tikka was sold.

 

[300zx_tt]

DO NOT have the MTR barrel Threaded. The tight muzzell will open up and not shoot as well. Buy a 457 Scout rifle. then go get a Lothar-Walther Barrel to fit. They taper lap and then counter bore the threaded muzzell. that way you still have the tight muzzel It will shoot 10X better.
Slug a threaded muzzell barrel and you can feel the barrel open up under the threads. Counter bored threads is the only way to go for a .22 LR

What do you mean the muzzle will open up? I’ve never heard that before. I don’t have a single threaded barrel that is counter bored

 

[300zx_tt]

I have a CZ 457 At-One 24” and a Bergara B14R. They both shoot lights out with a Mask hanging off the end. The 24” barrel with a can is looong but not a huge hinderance and the trigger can be turned down to stupid light with a Yo Dave Spring. I also have discovered I REALLY like 60 degree bolt throws. Downside? The AT-one stock, when tweaked to fit me is a bit wiggly. Need to get the extended LOP adapter and I wish the check piece went higher had another guide rod to stabilize it a bit more but I am running everything maxed out. The Bergara carbon is lighter and more manageable with a Mask due to the 18.5” barrel. No real complaints except the trigger ( and it ain’t all the triggers fault). Mind you it very nice for a stock piece but 2 pounds is as low as it goes. Swapped in a TT DIAMOND 2 stage and it will go to 1 pound but due the striker spring strength that’s all she got. Hoping one day a reduced power version will come out and let me use all the clicks and get to the available 4 ounces (just to have it). Both amazing rifles. I’ll let you decided which rifle shot which group SK Standard+ at 50 yards and the center hole is .25”
View attachment 7687421
View attachment 7687423
And the gruesome twosome…
View attachment 7687424

I wasn’t sure about a 24” on a .22 with a can, didn’t really see the need for it.
Thanks for the info and pics seems like a $650 cz can hang with the bergara

 

[jbell]

What do you mean the muzzle will open up? I’ve never heard that before. I don’t have a single threaded barrel that is counter bored

Yeah it is a thing. When you remove material around the OD of any cylinder it will / can change the ID. The amount of change is variable based on the material, thickness, how it was formed, how much stress is in the metal from the manufacturing process. It is the same idea of center drilling a press fit to pin to allow it to shrink enough to be able to press it out without heating the material it's pressed into.

 

[nikonNUT]

I wasn’t sure about a 24” on a .22 with a can, didn’t really see the need for it.
Thanks for the info and pics seems like a $650 cz can hang with the bergara

I wasn't either but is is stupid accurate, the squirrels hate it, and it scrubs a little speed off the bullet so it is a good bit quieter than the Bergara. CZ is running 1050FPS and the Bergara is pushing the same at 1104FPS per the Magnetospeed with the SK Standard+.

 

[300zx_tt]

Yeah it is a thing. When you remove material around the OD of any cylinder it will / can change the ID. The amount of change is variable based on the material, thickness, how it was formed, how much stress is in the metal from the manufacturing process. It is the same idea of center drilling a press fit to pin to allow it to shrink enough to be able to press it out without heating the material it's pressed into.

So wouldn’t that be a probability for any threaded barrel?
The last thing I want to do is spend money on a rifle, pay to thread it, mess it up and buy a new barrel

 

[jbell]

Technically speaking yes. There are some who think that a cut barrel especially a stress relieved barrel isn't as likely for it to be effected. I haven't seen it much with centerfire really, but rimfire I have. I had a conversation with Bobby Hart (Hart Barrels) about it years ago and he was a believer. The flip side to that coin is there are SO MANY barrels out there both cut, button, and hammer forged that are complete hammers with threaded muzzles, flutes of all shapes and sizes, odd tapers and contours. So it certainty isn't an always or never kind of thing. The big problem with rimfire is the size of threads being used (1/2" threads are small!) personally I think a 18mm or 3/4" thread would be optimal. That's also why all of my centerfire are M18X1.0 as I think that is optimal for the attachment sizes readily available in this application.

I'm just saying it does / can occur.

But I will say when I'm having a rimfire built with razor edge of accuracy as the goal I will not thread the muzzle. Also in that application I would never hang a suppressor on.

 

[300zx_tt]

Technically speaking yes. There are some who think that a cut barrel especially a stress relieved barrel isn't as likely for it to be effected. I haven't seen it much with centerfire really, but rimfire I have. I had a conversation with Bobby Hart (Hart Barrels) about it years ago and he was a believer. The flip side to that coin is there are SO MANY barrels out there both cut, button, and hammer forged that are complete hammers with threaded muzzles, flutes of all shapes and sizes, odd tapers and contours. So it certainty isn't an always or never kind of thing. The big problem with rimfire is the size of threads being used (1/2" threads are small!) personally I think a 18mm or 3/4" thread would be optimal. That's also why all of my centerfire are M18X1.0 as I think that is optimal for the attachment sizes readily available in this application.

I'm just saying it does / can occur.

But I will say when I'm having a rimfire built with razor edge of accuracy as the goal I will not thread the muzzle. Also in that application I would never hang a suppressor on.

I’m not trying to make this into a 1/4 moa gun at 200 yards. It’ll just be a range toy for me and unless I get bit by the .22 bug I don’t think I’d shoot a comp with it. If I do start to get into that type of shooting I’d likely upgrade anyway…

For those that run the Bergara b14R the action fits into a Remington 700 stock correct?

Nobody seems to sell just a cz 457 action, and apparently I can’t/shouldn’t thread the barrel on the MTR

 

[nikonNUT]

Well, CZ will sell you a threaded MTR barrel in 16", 20", or 22". All the ones with SR in the description are suppressor ready.

457 Barrel Sets - Rifles - CZ-USA Products | CZ-USA

shop.cz-usa.com

Kind of dumb they don't offer a CZ 457 Varmint MTR SR right out of the gate...

 

[300zx_tt]

Well, CZ will sell you a threaded MTR barrel in 16", 20", or 22". All the ones with SR in the description are suppressor ready.

457 Barrel Sets - Rifles - CZ-USA Products | CZ-USA

shop.cz-usa.com

Kind of dumb they don't offer a CZ 457 Varmint MTR SR right out of the gate...

I thought that was the case, I remember seeing them in the past when I first saw the MTR.

So essentially to get a factory cz MTR suppressor ready they want $650 for the rifle and $319 for the barrel… $970 bucks would probably get you a precision variant without the hassle.

 

[nikonNUT]

I thought that was the case, I remember seeing them in the past when I first saw the MTR.

So essentially to get a factory cz MTR suppressor ready they want $650 for the rifle and $319 for the barrel… $970 bucks would probably get you a precision variant without the hassle.

That’s how I see it. I would probably just spring for the new Long Range Precision version and call it good. I’ll most likely grab one as soon as my LGS gets one in. Love the current CZ and the Bergara but the long range ticks all the boxes. Adjustable stock, 20MOA pic rail already installed, and a fluted threaded MTR barrel. It’s all already done MSRP is sub $1200 so maybe a grand at most in the real world? Sounds like an easy choice unless you want the Bergara Mine had an asking price of $1029.00 at the LGS but I traded an old AR (Springer I paid $750.00 for and shot the shit out of!) and $200.00 cash for it so….

 

[DFOOSKING]

For those that run the Bergara b14R the action fits into a Remington 700 stock correct?

Correct. But the issue is it needs AICS bottom metal. So if you want a petty gun with fancy wood. It will have to be inletted for a AICS magazine compatible bottom metal.

As I said earlier....the thin spindly bergara factory piece won't transfer over.

So a ptg or badger or whoever you prefer 's bottom metal (which is about $300 if I recall) will be added cost.

That's partially why everyone is slapping them in chassis setups. No extra crap to buy.

 

[300zx_tt]

Correct. But the issue is it needs AICS bottom metal. So if you want a petty gun with fancy wood. It will have to be inletted for a AICS magazine compatible bottom metal.

As I said earlier....the thin spindly bergara factory piece won't transfer over.

So a ptg or badger or whoever you prefer 's bottom metal (which is about $300 if I recall) will be added cost.

That's partially why everyone is slapping them in chassis setups. No extra crap to buy.

Thanks for the info! I appreciate it!

 

[Schütze]

If you decide to get a B14r barreled action only, be careful with your choice of chassis or stock. There are issues with aics mag well tolerances. They aren’t all the perfect size for a B14r mag. Sometimes there is “shimming” required to have them feed correct. That’s why I personally prefer the HMR factory stock, no issues at all.

 

[Mike Casselton]

@Schütze
Thanks for letting me shoot your Rim-x yesterday. That thing is fantastic.

 

[Schütze]

Just came home from the match. It’s my forth match and I placed 8 out of 27. I’m feel very fortunate with this result due to very little training. The first 3 matches were practice score and this morning I got notified that they changed to NRL22. When I read the stages I first felt like staying home. Lots of confusion at about half of the stages, lots of negative attitude at the range. Difficult to figure things out not knowing what to expect, didn’t know NRL22 has info online and I have to look it up. 25y target for a rifle? Shooting free standing?
WTF, LOL. But in the end it all worked out. Part of it may have been @8pointer encouragement this morning, thank you Dan. I’ll keep at it….

 

[Schütze]

Oh, and the RimX worked like a Swiss Watch. Just one little hiccup that was on me.

 

[Schütze]

@Schütze
Thanks for letting me shoot your Rim-x yesterday. That thing is fantastic.

Any time, but it’s not for sale lol

 

[Mike Casselton]

Yeah, I might have to go and buy one to keep Rebecca shooting

 

[red930turbo]

Hey all!

I’m looking for a new .22lr bolt gun to shoot at the range with my dead air mask on it. I’m slightly torn between a few models that I have no previous experience with.

Cz 457:
Looking at the AT-ONE, Varmint, and Varmint MTR. I like the stock on the MTR the best, but I’m not sure if they come threaded.

Tikka t1x although I’d like a wooden stock, my CTR shoots lights out and I know the value is there with a tikka rifle

Bergara B-14 rimfire, these seem expensive for what they are, again I think I’d rather have a wood stock and I’m not sure about the value I’d get out of it.

Mainly looking at the cz’s, because that’s the style I like but I’m open to other suggestions

anybody put some rounds down range with an AT-ONE, Varmint and Varmint MTR that can weigh in?

All this talk of CZ, Bergara, Voodoo, but no one mentions Anschutz. It’s what world class shooters use.

Competition Series

[email protected] Technical Questions Contact Form

www.anschutznorthamerica.com

My 2 cents

 

[Schütze]

Looking at them all the time, especially after shooting free standing yesterday and sucked at it.
That's were that Fortner Biathlon comes to mind, should be perfect for NRL22. Depending on how
my little Vudoo three / 60 issues turn out I may be looking into getting one.

But then when I start thinking rational again, I'm realizing that a couple of B14r's place always better then me.
So I'm still making the point that a B14r is really all you really need.

 

[300zx_tt]

@Schütze
Thanks for letting me shoot your Rim-x yesterday. That thing is fantastic.

Awesome! There are some great members here, had someone PM me and ask if I wanted to run their t1x in a krg bravo in a .22 match. Based on that and what you’ve posted I decided to become a supporting member.

 

[Schütze]

We are far away from you down here in FL or I'd offer you the same.
But it's actually a good way of checking out what you like or not, go to a match and I'm sure most shooters will let you shoot / handle their equipment.

 

[300zx_tt]

All this talk of CZ, Bergara, Voodoo, but no one mentions Anschutz. It’s what world class shooters use.

Competition Series

[email protected] Technical Questions Contact Form

www.anschutznorthamerica.com

My 2 cents

Was initially trying to stay “inexpensive” but I realized that won’t happen, so I’m staying under $1,000

After a little more looking around my real options are:
- MTR with aftermarket threaded barrel. I’d keep the original barrel if it’s more accurate and if I got into shooting matches I’d use that.
- Bergara B14R
- Christensen arms Ranger .22 cf barrel
- tikka t1x in some form of chassis.

I haven’t seen much about the ranger, so I need to look into that a little but I think it’s mainly between the MTR and the bergara