Sidearms & Scatterguns Bombproof handguns?

[BiggerStick47]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, and before I forget. Have you noticed how there are droves of LEOs who are switching to the M&P? Departments are allowing their longtime Glock contracts to expire and going with the M&Ps.

</div></div>

That doesn't prove anything at all. My father's dept. (State), changes shotgun makes frequently. They went from an 870, to a 500, then to a Benelli Nova, and now they are going back to the 870. Was it because of failures? No, it was because someone got talked into going with brand x at when it was time for new guns (based on a budget, not a need). Not sure on the others, but he had only run about 20 rds through the Nova when they ditched it to go back to the 870.

As far as pistols, they are still using Glocks, but they did switch from .40 to .45 GAP a couple years ago. Again, nothing to do with performance, they just got a great deal from Glock to switch calibers.

 

[GMR]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I missed a very nice buck about 10 years ago due to a frozen 44 mag S&W 629 SS pistol. It had rained early in the day and the temp dropped. When I went to cock the gun it would not budge. The buck stood out at about 45 yeards for almost a hour ( or it seemed like it more like 5 minutes) I tried to warm it with my bare hands inside my coat. Just was not enough time. My fault it the gun had not gotten wet would not have had a issue. Just never thought about it.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

So you learned the importance of equipment preparation .

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Anybody in this thread who said 1911 needs to go see a doctor, immediately.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

There is nothing wrong with the 1911 .

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/greek17.html

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/greek17.html </div></div>

With the current production Glock that would not happen- I don't know the specifics on the model shown, but I do work for a company that fields 1200 of the pistols and with no issues I've ever seen.

I've put 6000 rounds through my personal G19 and with no visible wear other than polishing of the surfaces (striker and cruciform). The guns are pretty solid.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">glock 17 19 need to change the sights.

revolvers are junk in really dirty enviornments or if they get wet and freeze. Glock will keep running. HK and Sig won't. Beretta does ok but not as well as glock.

Biggest thing is if your glock does get totally funked up you can take it apart in a few min down to all the parts and clean it. Others you need a bench, tools, and at least a good 45min++++ </div></div>

I've never needed a bench or tools to disassemble a HK, Beretta, Sig, MP, or XD. All are very similar how they come apart. Ruger and Kel Tec is the only one that is messed up.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

They all fail thats the point there is nothing wrong with 1911's and wheel gun's they do not require more training , and any way if you are carrying a handgun you should be dedicating some time to train with it regardless of what it is .


http://glocktips.com/dry-firing-your-glock-glock-says-dont/


Sure if you are Lazy just go buy a Glock and tell your self you are ready for the fight or you can go and try different things and see what works for you for me it is 1911's they are reliable you just need to know how to run them they don't need to be cleaned there not some delicate instrument they are a pistol that you can beat someone to death with find another mag and be running again I run mine for around 1000rd's before cleaning not because I have to but because I want to I have gone well over 1500rd's as long as you keep it lubed it will run just fine I lube mine around every 200rd's I just use 15w40 engine oil .

You don't need 17rd's the idea is to look down the sight's and aim you may of heard of this thing called shot placement it is very important in a gun fight , altho the spray and pray method can be fun it just makes lots of noise and wastes ammo and creates more thing for you to explain .

Just don't go telling me a 1911 a bhp or a good old wheelgun is not up to the task of fighting they are as good now as the were 30 yr's ago .

Oh and one more thing you have not seen fear in someones eye's till you have looked at them over the front sight of a big bore wheelgun and they see those big hollow points looking back at them .

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Bombproof handguns?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sure if you are Lazy just go buy a Glock and tell your self you are ready for the fight </div></div>


That is by far one of the most idiotic statements I have ever read.

Take a look at this FAQ page Larry Vickers has up. He notes several things about handguns and 1911.

http://vickerstactical.com/faqs-with-larry-vickers/

 

[BiggerStick47]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sure if you are Lazy just go buy a Glock and tell your self you are ready for the fight </div></div>


That is by far one of the most idiotic statements I have ever read.
</div></div>

I don't know, this one is pretty stupid:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't need 17rd's the idea is to look down the sight's and aim you may of heard of this thing called shot placement </div></div>

So, dbateman, why would you need to grab another magazine after you beat someone to death with your 1911? You should have killed him with your perfect shot placement on the first round. Hell, by your logic a single shot pistol should do everything you will ever need.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

^ How is it , that is one of the argument that keep coming up in favour of the Glock people don't have time to train or it's to hard to train someone to take the safety off and they will forget it in a stressful situation or the Glock takes less maintenance than other platforms , and people just can't be bothered cleaning them .

How is that it's ok for a carbine or shotgun to have a safety but as soon as it's on a handgun people cant remember to take it off ?

The point I was trying to make with that statement is what ever your choice train with it a lot it is whats going to save your ass , so try and set aside a bit of time each week for equipment maintenance and training .

 

[BiggerStick47]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

What does any of that have to do with your statement about not needing 17rds? Let me simplify this for you:

How many rounds DO you need?

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I carry a Glock at first because I had to... I still have to but given the choice I would still carry a Glock. Regardless of what I carry I still train with it like a maniac, Glock or otherwise. The argument about not needing a safety or that the Glock is "maintenance free" is baseless. I get tired of people bitching because Glock is a simple weapon. Handguns are intended to be simple. They need to be simple because they are a defensive weapon by design.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Ok I agree that the more rounds the better there is no argument from me .


I also could of worded my post better , the 17 round's bit came from well a few thing's but most likely I was just reading a report of an officer how fired 14 rd's and only got one good hit and six complete misses and only one hit to centre mass , the fight happened inside 10 feet if I remember correctly . The officer said after the shooting he was not happy with the performance of his ammo .

I am not saying I could do better or putting the officer down for his actions he went thru something most people will never experience and did what he had to survive .

I am just saying don't discount the older gun's they still work just fine and for everyday carry they up to the task , they are even up to the task of going to war if that is what you require of them .

Blessed is the man who can see the front sight .

 

[Win70chris]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

No issues with my Glock 35. If you rotate the mags and replace springs as needed they are dang near 100%.

 

[ramseyzoo]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Here's an opinion from a guy I like and respect:

James Yeager-Tactical Response

If you wanna learn how to fight...Tactical Response




"All guns should be Glocks.
All Glocks should be 9mm.
All Glock 9mms should be Model 19s.

I have chosen the Glock for all of the reasons it has been heralded for over 20 years. It is simple, rugged, accurate and reliable. Are Glocks ugly? Yes but if you compare ugly women to strippers, like I do Glocks and “pretty” pistols, you can appreciate the ugly Glocks. Strippers are pretty and might be “fun” but they have a lot of baggage, are high maintenance, and are unreliable. Ugly women are more appreciative of your attention, they know how to cook and they will take care of you when you get sick.

It is no secret to any of my thousands of students I am a fan of the Glock 19. Why the 19 instead of the 26 or 17? My thought is that the 19 is big enough to fight with and small enough to carry. I do carry a 26 as a back-up though and I do recommend the 17 for my students that are taller than 6’4”.

Safeties?

Reminds me of Tommy Boy.....

Here's the way I see it. A gun company puts a fancy safety on a gun 'cause they want you to feel all warm and toasty inside. And why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that safety under your pillow at night, the "Safety Fairy" might come by and leave a quarter, am I right? The point is, how do you know the Safety Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times. They know they sold you a safe piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it safe, I will. I got spare time."

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I know... We are approaching the point of beating a dead horse but I think it is important to note that Kyle Lamb (VTAC, former Delta) tends to use a S&W M&P. Paul Howe (CSAT, former Delta) says on his web site, "The G19 is the most universal gun in my opinion. I shoot a .357 G32 which is the same size as the G19 and uses all the same holsters and mag pouches. " Like I stated before, Larry Vickers (Vickers Tactical, former Delta and 1911 builder) also preferrers the Glock. There are SOCOM groups who are going to a Glock. Go to most shooting schools (Thunder Ranch, Rifles Only, Front Sight, CCTG ) and the instructors tend to use HK, Sig, Glock, XD, M&P.

I would be willing to bet that the 1911 is being used by less than 10% of tactical shooters (cops, Mil, contractors) and competition shooters. This speak volumes to me.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Yes we probably are . I do agree with you that Glock S&W M&P Hk are good pistol's they are fine would I feel under gunned with any of them no . Would I be comfortable with them no only because that is not what I am use to . Would I use one if I had too with out a doubt .

I see a lot of Glock's , Browning High Power , M&P are starting to become more popular I also see CZ75 quite a bit and I still see quite a few 1911's getting around and a hole lot of other weird and wonderful thing's . I seen a sweet old mod 27 a wile ago also a shortened M1 Carbine don't no how well it would work but hey it looked cool .


To me I think the 1911 is still pretty popular I can't say about the 10% if you count all the guy's that can't pick to carry what they want maybe . Maybe I just hang around the wrong crowd I don't know .


If I had a web site I would tell you to try 38Super and 10mm but I don't so I wont

all though there is nothing wrong with 45acp .
I have also been shooting the 1911 a dam long time I like it works for me and I will not be changing any time soon .

I'm not high speed low drag I just get around a bit , I will probable never change the shooting world and you won't read about me in the latest issue of gun's magazine .

Cowboy I value your opinion , but never under estimate a good man with a 1911 .

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I do like the 1911 but I'd never carry one on duty. The newer 1911's now days seem to have too tight of tolerances and have to be perfectly clean and well maintained to function right. They make good race guns now but poor combat handguns.

Where I work we have an approved weapon list that includes some 1911 models as well as Glock, H&K, S&W M&P's, Sigs ect; Three of the guys I trained with did carry 1911's. As of now NONE of them still carry a 1911 because every sigle one of them had issues with their guns. Kimbers were also dropped off the approved list completly because the number of issues they were having. The majority of us are split between Glocks, M&Ps and Sigs in that order with the M&P slowly catching up to the Glocks. I even made the switch to the M&P after shooting one and love it!

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Kimber seem to have a lot of issues ,there early guns seem to be a lot better than current one's . they can be made to run but I stay right away from Kimber .

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They all fail .


1911 .




</div></div>

Well that about sums it up.

 

[SigKev]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

My experience of shooting handguns for 20+ years is that the Glock is consistent and reliable. The factory sights must be replaced, but other than that it is almost perfect.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

LITERALLY bomb proof? i.e. best chance of survival in an explosion? Ruger. simply put. Poor ergonomics, poor trigger, bad accuracy without work on all three. Just about any ruger p9* series is built like a tank though and almost always goes bang.

 

[creids98292]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Sig 220 combat, great track record in crappy conditions!

 

[sig_equinox]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I'm not a fan of Glocks, as someone else mentioned earlier when I punch out I'm always high, but you can always get used to it. Your wrists would be canted in a way that manages recoil better than that of a firearm such as a 1911.

Huge Sig P226 fan though.

Just my opinions...

 

[hamstur]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Just out of curiosity, when you say durability and reliability of an <span style="font-weight: bold">"AIAW/AIAX"</span> do you mean straight reliability, all creature comforts, refinement, mystique, wow factor, price tag, collectability, etc aside? I.e., are you asking for the <span style="font-weight: bold">"AK47"</span> of pistols, Or are you really asking for a custom must-have-it absolutely reliable pistol?

Just curious because in a money is no object perspective, AIAW/AIAX vs AK47 would be like asking Yost Heirloom Precision BHP vs Glock 17...

As long as you don't purposely try to blow it up, any modern pistol mentioned is reliable.

 

[X-fan]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I like the glock19, but I am surprised more guys don't like the Sig?

Why? Please do tell?

BTW I'm kind of partial to my STI Edge, but hey...Its my boner I and will rub it exactly how I like!

6500 reloads and not one misfire BTW.

 

[steve123]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the glock19, but I am surprised more guys don't like the Sig?

Why? Please do tell?

BTW I'm kind of partial to my STI Edge, but hey...Its my boner I and will rub it exactly how I like!

6500 reloads and not one misfire BTW. </div></div>

By far the most reliable pistol I've owned is my STI 2011 Edge 40. Maybe 40,000 rounds? The "only" malfunctions were from reloading mistakes. Primers backwards,dead primers,over expanded case webs from being shot in Glocks.

2cnd for reliability was a Glock 33,357 Sig. Something about that small bullet feeding into a big hole.

During a period of 15 years or so I bought and experienced malfunctions with many other pistols including Glock 17,20,22. I saw too many CZ's malfunction at matches so never owned one. 1911's were the worst for reliability but had the best triggers.

You guys got me curious now. I'm sure I don't need to blow any pistols up but I might have to do a project and get a XD,M&P,Sig and HK to compare then keep the one I like the most.

 

[X-fan]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Sti Edge pistols never seem to act up at the shoots do they?
As much as I love mine I do wonder how it would hold up in a filthy dirty environment? Never let it get filthy dirty so couldn't tell you. I sure as hell wouldn't shoot it with a slide full of sand!
I suspect the Glock would fare better in the desert/mud.

Steve 123 I nominate yours for a dirt'n'destruction test....LMAO!
That isn't even funny is it?

Peace

 

[steve123]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sti Edge pistols never seem to act up at the shoots do they?
As much as I love mine I do wonder how it would hold up in a filthy dirty environment? Never let it get filthy dirty so couldn't tell you. I sure as hell wouldn't shoot it with a slide full of sand!
I suspect the Glock would fare better in the desert/mud.

Steve 123 I nominate yours for a dirt'n'destruction test....LMAO!
That isn't even funny is it?

Peace </div></div>

Haha, I just got it back from Robar a few months ago with NP3+ on the slide, Rogaurd on the frame, polished accents and stippled grip. That puppy's staying pretty as much as I can help it.

The worst torture test it's seen is no cleaning or lube for 1500 rounds.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

9mm hi point!

 

[Twisted .308]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

This is the one you want >

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=264339201

 

[SheepsClothes]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

My 1911 has never had an issue. It's not a match gun though. My room mates match 1911 is a fucking princess. Wrecks brass too.

My xdm has never had an issue either.

I like the 1911 because it feels good to shoot. The xdm is 9mm and its fun to burn a whole mag and know it was not breaking the bank.

I am pretty sure any modern pistol will work well. 1911 or Glock or anything else. I don't like the angle on the Glocks I have shot, and to me it has always been the gang banger special. I have seen way more Glocks break down than anything else, and I'm 100% sure its because thugs are stupid and don't keep it maintained.

 

[kamonjj]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I vote for Glock. I've seen people shooting them with other guns and not causing any damage to the slide. I'm sure the polymer would be a different story. I've owned and shot a ton of glocks and never had an issue.

I've also owned XDs, and M&Ps and never once had an issue with them and I put my gear through hell. I'd put my life in any one of those 3 without a second thought.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 ruger revolvers are about as close as you are going to get </div></div> Their P series semi's aren't far behind. An STI in .40 was the most
accurate .40 I ever shot, a P94 Ruger was the second most accurate in a .40 cal.
I hated the robocop clunkiness of it and did a trigger job to make it acceptable
there, but never had a glitch with it.

 

[Bradley]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9mm hi point!

</div></div>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbvvurXmAmg

 

[dbateman]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kamonjj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote for Glock. I've seen people shooting them with other guns and not causing any damage to the slide. I'm sure the polymer would be a different story. I've owned and shot a ton of glocks and never had an issue.

I've also owned XDs, and M&Ps and never once had an issue with them and I put my gear through hell. I'd put my life in any one of those 3 without a second thought. </div></div>

Would you let me shoot your glock's slide with my 1911 ?

 

[pizzamanny]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Glock is a solid gun. I would say any of the big name pistols will take more abuse than a reasonable person would dish out. I say preference is the biggest factor. Clean your gun and it will work.

 

[pizzamanny]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kamonjj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote for Glock. I've seen people shooting them with other guns and not causing any damage to the slide. I'm sure the polymer would be a different story. I've owned and shot a ton of glocks and never had an issue.

I've also owned XDs, and M&Ps and never once had an issue with them and I put my gear through hell. I'd put my life in any one of those 3 without a second thought. </div></div>
Explain!

 

[Eagle1899]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Properly built and tuned 1911.

 

[DerMeister]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

There are going to be issues with any make, some more commonly have issues, but the good ones that have many people backing them are all for the most part good pistols.

I am surprised the CZ75B hasn't gotten any love here. It is my first and only pistol I own(have shot a handfull more). It's all steel, so to some aspect it is "bombproof". Excellent reliability, accuracy, handling. There isn't anything I don't like about them. There are versions in .45 too.

 

[AnschutzNerd]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

If you shoot a Glock well then, You can't beat it.

I shoot Glock, Sig and HK. The HK has been the most reliable.

Springfield XD(m) is nice too.

Try first... Then Buy.

Can't go wrong with any I've mentioned.

 

[k9ghost]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Nothing is bomb proof but most major manufactures make solid performing weapons. Glock, HK, S&W ect. ect.

 

[snipe10]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

+1 on a properly built and tuned 1911

 

[BELLYCRAWL]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Glock at half the price of well built 1911. There is always the Ruger Super Redhawk in a .454 Casul? I would love to get my hands on an Alaskan!! It looks like a solid chunk.

 

[sgtkeebler]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a link to a fairly extensive torture test of a Glock.

http://theprepared.com/content/view/90//administrator/

I spoke with a Glock rep that had a book of test the factory had done, and it included using a pistol as cannon fodder.

While not exactly bomb tested, it's everything but. </div></div>

+1 for glock and this is why. very dependable product, Ive never had a problem.

 

[Gogetum]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

I carry my HK Tactical on all of my outdoor adventures, it stays dirty, it gets rained on, snowed on, collects dirt from riding atv's, banged against trees and rocks and fires every time I need it to. Since the grip is tan it does not look too dirty, and the slide just about matches the grip now. My Mark 23 works just as well as the tactical but shows a little more dirt. My 1911 will not function as well dirty as the HK's do. My HK compact works well as a carry weapon and is usually not as abused. I have not run over any of them with my truck yet but they would all probably work except for the 1911 maybe.

Yes, if I run out of bullets with the Mark 23 it will work well as a club, probably better than a glock.

 

[Olivers_AR]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

Glock as far as torture tests, plus the ability to field or detailed strip with the least amount of parts. Parts kits/replacements are cheap.

 

[3fingervic]

Re: Bombproof handguns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a link to a fairly extensive torture test of a Glock.

http://theprepared.com/content/view/90//administrator/

I spoke with a Glock rep that had a book of test the factory had done, and it included using a pistol as cannon fodder.

While not exactly bomb tested, it's everything but. </div></div>

Looks good enough for me. Glock.