Boron nitride

[George63]

OK, so like everyone else I have been hearing about this stuff in the last few years and the consensus I gathered was the system was not well worked out/no consistent results/advantages from what products are readily available

so the other day I was on the Tubb website and clicked on a video where he is hawking a Boron nitride system that he worked on for 10 years, the best formula, simple application (.006 - .02 $ per bullet) - blah, blah, blah

the main claim is a significant reduction of cold bore POI variance

now David Tubb is no snake oil salesman and has come up with some real state of the art highpower equipment innovations

but another part of his site hawks a BrN coating service that says it uses a "special" process that is "superior" to anything that can be done yourself

this marketing double talk makes it appear BrN viability could still all be BS - and it is difficult to remove all the other variables to get real cost/benefit analysis by simple testing


This topic has not been visited on the forum lately -
so the question is:

what are the current opinions/ experiences on BrN bullet coating now that a semi-mainstream product is available from a source with a respected reputation

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Boron nitride

Does he say what it will do for you?

 

[George63]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

the main claim is a significant reduction of cold bore POI variance


</div></div>

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron nitride

hBN works awesome for my money. I tumble coat them. Keep in mind that he's got to do something to try to set his stuff apart from the average user so of course he's going to say his method (tumbling) is better than any you can do but it's bullshit. Tumbling is tumbling.

Here's a before and after shots of some of mine.

As for POI on cold bore, I never had cold bore issues with the guns I shoot hBN out of so I have no way of measuring but it drastically reduces fouling and when you eject a shell it's cold whereas without hBN it's hot as hell like you'd expect. I ended up loading up .1gr to achieve the same groups as compared to non-hBn coated bullets and the speed is right there too.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Boron nitride

I may have to give it a try in a 243 AI.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">now David Tubbs is no snake oil salesman and has come up with some real state of the art highpower equipment innovations</div></div>

really ? like what ? , i thought he was an oil salesman.

as far as HBn , I use it , i dont see any improvements. oh well.

 

[rifleman700]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hBN works awesome for my money. I tumble coat them. Keep in mind that he's got to do something to try to set his stuff apart from the average user so of course he's going to say his method (tumbling) is better than any you can do but it's bullshit. Tumbling is tumbling.

Here's a before and after shots of some of mine.

As for POI on cold bore, I never had cold bore issues with the guns I shoot hBN out of so I have no way of measuring but it drastically reduces fouling and when you eject a shell it's cold whereas without hBN it's hot as hell like you'd expect. I ended up loading up .1gr to achieve the same groups as compared to non-hBn coated bullets and the speed is right there too.</div></div>

+1

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

the main claim is a significant reduction of cold bore POI variance


</div></div> </div></div>

That seems a very hard to quantify advantage?

 

[George63]

Re: Boron nitride

on his video he makes a strong claim of noticeable difference - without the coating his 1st 600 yd sighter is always low - with the coating, the 1st rd is consistent with the rest

if anyone wants to argue his skill level - just show what matches you have beaten him at

I can not find anyone else saying there is any other (down range) advantage from using it - the brass coming out cooler is nice I guess, but hard to justify adding a step

 

[J.A. Hamilton]

Re: Boron nitride

Are you guys tumbling with BBs or bullets only? Mind sharing a brief run down on your methods?

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if anyone wants to argue his skill level - just show what matches you have beaten him at</div></div>

Do you really think winning matches is the sole determinate of opinions concerning things indirectly related?

I'm not saying he is wrong. But, a lot of these guys have their secret stuff, lots of secret stuff and the motivation for selling stuff is a lot different from the talent required for winning matches. (hey, I run one of his speed firing pin assemblies, and can't honestly say that it has helped my scores)

But, my rule of thumb is.....a quality barrel should put the first shot within the group. Period. And, here we have a guy that can pick and choose and hand select any barrel he wants, maybe for free or deeply discounted?

That's all I am saying. The claim is hard to prove, regardless of the man's reputation for winning matches. As far as I'm concerned, man to man, a reputation only counts for so much. You might be the best tidily wink player on the block but when you are selling ear muffs, that doesn't count much, you're still just selling stuff. BB

 

[George63]

Re: Boron nitride

BB, I realize you have the inclination/reputation for quickly turning conversation into argumentation - this is not my style/purpose

your statement: " this is hard to quantify" suggests that the shooting is too random to show correlation between the use of the product and the reduction of cold bore variance - my point: the guy has proven performance that would support his being able to detect the variance/lack of variance - there is a relation to skill level

now, a different point is whether he is "stretching" the importance of any improvement in cold bore/ warm bore consistency for the purpose of salesmanship

As for barrels - across the course high power match rifles use long barrels to maximize sight radius that are relatively light profile for weight/balance - absolutely he has the resources to obtain the best possible, but the "best" means what will help him score high - that is not necessarily the same as the best in cold bore consistency - so a bullet coating that aids this may serve a legitimate purpose

you making something a "rule of thumb" does not make it a rule of chemistry/physics - all materials change with temperature - for a given barrel cold /warm will effect to X- degree - will this effect still make it fall "within the group" ? will depend on many variables including the size of the rest of your group - certainly BR shooters will try to stabilize the shot to shot barrel temp - when the group is potentially the approximate size of the projectile all the factors show up

 

[George63]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J. A. Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you guys tumbling with BBs or bullets only? Mind sharing a brief run down on your methods? </div></div>

on the video, he showed tumbling in about a 10 oz container 2/3 full bullets only

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what are the current opinions/ experiences on BrN bullet coating now that a semi-mainstream product is available from a source with a respected reputation</div></div>

Excuse me, I thought you were looking for opinions. We're just talking dude, no need for disrespect. BB

 

[Temp9]

Re: Boron nitride

I've played with hBN before. It's supposed to eliminate cold bore variances, decrease chamber pressures for equivalent velocities, and decrease fouling. There are claims that barrel life will increase, but I have yet to see any solid evidence on this.

The process is ridiculously easy. Get a small container (about 3-4" high, 1.5-2" diameter) and fill it with however many bullets you want. Don't fill it to the point where it crams the bullets. You should be able to hear the bullets rattling loosely when you shake the bottle. Put a small bit of hBN in; I use an amount the size of a pea. Put the bottle in the tumbler for an hour. Pull the bullets and polish them in a sock. You're done!

Edit: Coated bullets also keep the barrel significantly cooler. Helps on rapid fire strings, especially on thinner profile barrels.

 

[George63]

Re: Boron nitride

yeah the barrel life would be real hard to determine, except maybe on some 800 rd barrel burner that now goes 1200

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J. A. Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you guys tumbling with BBs or bullets only? Mind sharing a brief run down on your methods? </div></div>

Keep in mind he's not going to show his real process on a video. You really need the BBs to make it work fast and right. It'll prob work without but it's take a lot longer. You need the added surface area and hardness from the BBs to speed up the process. I use about 50 Stainless BBs and tumble a handful of ~30 or more depending on the size bullets for at least 6 hours. In total my whole tumbling bottle is about 1/3 full. I also found that it made no difference whether I cleaned the bullets prior to tumbling or didn't.

 

[justjc]

Re: Boron nitride

I'm going to make the assumption that the small bottle is used to keep the hBN from contaminating the tumbler.

I have a small 4 lb. tumbler that has been sitting around doing nothing for several years. Could it be used by itself and do an acceptable job or would that be too much area for the hBN to work in. The cavity is approx. 6.5" x 4".

Thanks

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to make the assumption that the small bottle is used to keep the hBN from contaminating the tumbler.

I have a small 4 lb. tumbler that has been sitting around doing nothing for several years. Could it be used by itself and do an acceptable job or would that be too much area for the hBN to work in. The cavity is approx. 6.5" x 4".

Thanks </div></div>

No, the bottle is to keep the bullets/BBs and hBN in one place and in nearly constant contact. You really need to confine it all to one enclosed space. Plus hBN loves water so it will clump if left exposed to air. My tumbler is slightly bigger than yours and works just fine.

 

[justjc]

Re: Boron nitride

OK, appreciate the info. Now I'm off to search for a container.

Thanks

 

[High Binder]

Re: Boron nitride

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, appreciate the info. Now I'm off to search for a container.

Thanks </div></div>

I've tried a lot of different ones. The best one I've found was a perfect cylinder about 6" x 2.5". It was a vitamin bottle I thin I got at either Target or Walmart. Shop around in aisles you normally wouldn't go into.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Boron nitride

Well. My tumbler is bigger than yours!

Seriously. I don't leave home without it.

(FYI: Tubb without the S, like Walmart, not Walmarts)