I am building a new rifle and I have everything figured out except for bottom metal. The rifle will be for target shooting, f t/r and maybe some tactical style competitions. It is my understanding that for F T/R that I need to single load each round. I was going to go with a surgeon mag system prior to learning that I wouldn't be able to use it for competitions. Is there a way to use this bottom metal for f t/r? Do they make an adapter or something to make it single shot, that is f t/r legal? If not, is there a company that makes both a magazine and a regular bottom metal with the same dimensions for in-letting purposes? I am sure that I am not the first person to have this issue, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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F T/R Competition bottom metal for f-class
- Thread starter cp3head
- Start date
Re: bottom metal for f-class
You can put in a DBM system and it will be fine for F class as long as you don't feed from the mags. With most all push feed systems (i.e., not a pre-64 Win) you can just drop the round in the action and close the bolt. There are also some single feed followers for some mags, but I don't know if there is one for an AICS type mag that your system will use.
You can put in a DBM system and it will be fine for F class as long as you don't feed from the mags. With most all push feed systems (i.e., not a pre-64 Win) you can just drop the round in the action and close the bolt. There are also some single feed followers for some mags, but I don't know if there is one for an AICS type mag that your system will use.
Re: bottom metal for f-class
I use AICS mags in my 700, and just single load them. Lay them on top of the mag, give them a little push forward, and close the bolt.
1911fan
I use AICS mags in my 700, and just single load them. Lay them on top of the mag, give them a little push forward, and close the bolt.
1911fan
Re: bottom metal for f-class
If you're set on feeding from the mag, cut a block of wood to fit under the spring in the mag just large enough to allow only one round to be loaded. Not familiar with the AICS mag but I've seen this done on 10 round Ar10 mags to limit them to 5 rounds so they'll meet some states hunting requirements. Simple and easy to do and works slick.
okie
If you're set on feeding from the mag, cut a block of wood to fit under the spring in the mag just large enough to allow only one round to be loaded. Not familiar with the AICS mag but I've seen this done on 10 round Ar10 mags to limit them to 5 rounds so they'll meet some states hunting requirements. Simple and easy to do and works slick.
okie
Re: bottom metal for f-class
I have the Badger M5 DBM system on all my GAPs used in F-T/R competitions. I use AICS 5-round mags with it. Drop a round in, close bolt, pull trigger, rifle goes "Bang". Couldn't be more simple. I also have a couple 10-round AICS mags I use at the range from time to time.
I have the Badger M5 DBM system on all my GAPs used in F-T/R competitions. I use AICS 5-round mags with it. Drop a round in, close bolt, pull trigger, rifle goes "Bang". Couldn't be more simple. I also have a couple 10-round AICS mags I use at the range from time to time.
Re: bottom metal for f-class
So i can single load with the magazine in and comply with F T/R rules?
So i can single load with the magazine in and comply with F T/R rules?
Re: bottom metal for f-class
All F Class matches are conducted as NRA High Power Slow Fire events, meaning that after each shot is fired, the target will be pulled and scored and put back up again.
NRA High Power rule 10.1.6 Loading in Slow Fire states, in part, "the rifle will be loaded with only one cartridge at a time. The cartridge shall be inserted in the magazine or chamber only when the rifle is pointed downrange."
No mention of having to block or limit magazine capacity, just don't load more than one.
F Class is a subset of High Power, so all of the High Power rules as well as the specific F Class rules apply.
A lot of questions about F Class can be answered by looking at All the rules that apply.
Paul
All F Class matches are conducted as NRA High Power Slow Fire events, meaning that after each shot is fired, the target will be pulled and scored and put back up again.
NRA High Power rule 10.1.6 Loading in Slow Fire states, in part, "the rifle will be loaded with only one cartridge at a time. The cartridge shall be inserted in the magazine or chamber only when the rifle is pointed downrange."
No mention of having to block or limit magazine capacity, just don't load more than one.
F Class is a subset of High Power, so all of the High Power rules as well as the specific F Class rules apply.
A lot of questions about F Class can be answered by looking at All the rules that apply.
Paul
Re: bottom metal for f-class
I can't find anything regarding magazines in the F-Class rules section. So I guess you defer to the HP rules. Only info I find states that the box magazine or reduced capacity magazine will be attached. Info looks like it pertains to ARs and M1As so I'm not even sure if it applies. I've single loaded my TRG during mid and long range F-class matches and no one questioned it.
I can't find anything regarding magazines in the F-Class rules section. So I guess you defer to the HP rules. Only info I find states that the box magazine or reduced capacity magazine will be attached. Info looks like it pertains to ARs and M1As so I'm not even sure if it applies. I've single loaded my TRG during mid and long range F-class matches and no one questioned it.
Re: bottom metal for f-class
Single loading with a DBM system is absolutely fine for F-Class. The only issue I observed at Nationals last September was that a one official mentioned I needed to have the mag removed <span style="font-style: italic">in addition to</span> an ECI flag when moving my rifle to and from the line. That is a reasonable safety precaution (rule) I'm sure was inadvertently overlooked by the officials (and myself) in the regional and local competitions in which I had previously participated.
Some DBM systems do not readily allow single loading as the round doesn't feed well when an empty mag is in place. As an example, for the life of me I cannot single feed my DTA SRS Covert rifle. Maybe that's just me, but I've never tried to use it in a match for that reason.
In any case, there is no need to add unnecessary items to your rifle for the purpose of single feeding with a DBM system. I would particularly avoid using something homemade that might fail in the middle of a match, especially when you're building a rifle from the ground up as the OP originally stated. There's just no reason to do that when DBM systems that can be sigle loaded are available. Simply go with the Badger M5 system (or something similar you know others have used without issues) and move on. I have never had any type of failure from the Badger system whatsoever, it comes in both short/long action versions, and should be compatible with a variety of different systems. Then you'll have a rifle that gives you the best of both worlds; single feeding for F-Class comps and a mag for anything else.
http://badgerordnance.com/triggerguards/
Single loading with a DBM system is absolutely fine for F-Class. The only issue I observed at Nationals last September was that a one official mentioned I needed to have the mag removed <span style="font-style: italic">in addition to</span> an ECI flag when moving my rifle to and from the line. That is a reasonable safety precaution (rule) I'm sure was inadvertently overlooked by the officials (and myself) in the regional and local competitions in which I had previously participated.
Some DBM systems do not readily allow single loading as the round doesn't feed well when an empty mag is in place. As an example, for the life of me I cannot single feed my DTA SRS Covert rifle. Maybe that's just me, but I've never tried to use it in a match for that reason.
In any case, there is no need to add unnecessary items to your rifle for the purpose of single feeding with a DBM system. I would particularly avoid using something homemade that might fail in the middle of a match, especially when you're building a rifle from the ground up as the OP originally stated. There's just no reason to do that when DBM systems that can be sigle loaded are available. Simply go with the Badger M5 system (or something similar you know others have used without issues) and move on. I have never had any type of failure from the Badger system whatsoever, it comes in both short/long action versions, and should be compatible with a variety of different systems. Then you'll have a rifle that gives you the best of both worlds; single feeding for F-Class comps and a mag for anything else.
http://badgerordnance.com/triggerguards/
Re: bottom metal for f-class
This kind of went off track.
When I mentioned followers in my first post it was by no means suggesting that they are a requirement, more of an if your rifle needs one thing. My current rifle is a 700 BDL action with an internal mag well and a Badger M4 bottom metal. I just drop the rounds in the action and close. I mentioned followers only because some rifles don't like to feed rounds loose in the action or loose rounds can sometimes end up with the nose against something that makes it not want to feed.
I know a lot of guys run single feed followers on top of a mag in AR style rifles, it probably just depends on the mag follower and I don't have any experience with AI or AWs. The only person I've ever watched shoot that had to put the bullet in the mag and have it strip was a guy with a pre-64 Win action. Mags don't have to be disabled or limited in any way, you just have to put them in the rifle one at a time.
This kind of went off track.
When I mentioned followers in my first post it was by no means suggesting that they are a requirement, more of an if your rifle needs one thing. My current rifle is a 700 BDL action with an internal mag well and a Badger M4 bottom metal. I just drop the rounds in the action and close. I mentioned followers only because some rifles don't like to feed rounds loose in the action or loose rounds can sometimes end up with the nose against something that makes it not want to feed.
I know a lot of guys run single feed followers on top of a mag in AR style rifles, it probably just depends on the mag follower and I don't have any experience with AI or AWs. The only person I've ever watched shoot that had to put the bullet in the mag and have it strip was a guy with a pre-64 Win action. Mags don't have to be disabled or limited in any way, you just have to put them in the rifle one at a time.
Re: bottom metal for f-class
I think David tubb might sell pics single shot follower blocks if you feel you need one check his site out
I think David tubb might sell pics single shot follower blocks if you feel you need one check his site out
Re: bottom metal for f-class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The only person I've ever watched shoot that had to put the bullet in the mag and have it strip was a guy with a pre-64 Win action. </div></div>
Then you've never seen someone shoot an M14 in slow fire. You snap the round down in the mag while it is in the rifle, then pull the bolt back to single load the rifle.
Technically M16 mags are of the same design, however no-one over 5 years old has fingers small enough to snap rounds into an M16 type rifle while the mag is in it.
AICS mags cannot be "topped off" easily while in the rifle - the round slides in from the front as it is a double stack, center feed magazine. AW mags (standard length not 300WM) are a double stack, alternating feed magazine, which can be topped off/loaded while in the rifle IF the ejection cutout in the rifle is sufficient to allow you to do so. An actual AW action or Badger variant really does not have sufficient finger room to do so, nor would any of the benchrest/target type of actions that have very small ejection cutouts. Not that you would want to use any of those for a tactical/field/F-Class multi-use rifle.
The AI vs. AW magazine decision is not a bottom metal decision BTW - it is an action cutout decision. Your common bottom metals will take either/both mags. Defiance makes a cut that will allow the rifle to feed both. Other gunsmiths make a mod that allows the rifle to feed both. Some custom actions only take the AICS mags.
OP, most certainly you an run a mag system in your rifle and shoot F-TR (or F-Open for that matter) matches, load one round at a time from the mag or just put in by hand, and be compliant with the rules.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The only person I've ever watched shoot that had to put the bullet in the mag and have it strip was a guy with a pre-64 Win action. </div></div>
Then you've never seen someone shoot an M14 in slow fire. You snap the round down in the mag while it is in the rifle, then pull the bolt back to single load the rifle.
Technically M16 mags are of the same design, however no-one over 5 years old has fingers small enough to snap rounds into an M16 type rifle while the mag is in it.
AICS mags cannot be "topped off" easily while in the rifle - the round slides in from the front as it is a double stack, center feed magazine. AW mags (standard length not 300WM) are a double stack, alternating feed magazine, which can be topped off/loaded while in the rifle IF the ejection cutout in the rifle is sufficient to allow you to do so. An actual AW action or Badger variant really does not have sufficient finger room to do so, nor would any of the benchrest/target type of actions that have very small ejection cutouts. Not that you would want to use any of those for a tactical/field/F-Class multi-use rifle.
The AI vs. AW magazine decision is not a bottom metal decision BTW - it is an action cutout decision. Your common bottom metals will take either/both mags. Defiance makes a cut that will allow the rifle to feed both. Other gunsmiths make a mod that allows the rifle to feed both. Some custom actions only take the AICS mags.
OP, most certainly you an run a mag system in your rifle and shoot F-TR (or F-Open for that matter) matches, load one round at a time from the mag or just put in by hand, and be compliant with the rules.
