Rifle Scopes Brain damage on the scope thing

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hawkeye8

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Minuteman
Feb 28, 2011
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#1
Forgive another relatively noob question, but thanks to all who answered by first post. Basically, my head is spinning on "how good of a scope is really needed with a decent budget when you don't need the best?"

Bear with me. I've only been shooting long range for six months. I'm fortunate to be a member of a range that goes out to 600. I've got access to 1000+ range area but haven't got to shoot it yet. When I started I told myself I would not buy a scope until I was proficient with iron sites with both of my primary rifles, an RRA .223 and an Armalite SASS. I'm hitting awfully darn consistently from 100-600 with the SASS and 100-400 with the RRA from four of the "standard" shooting positions (hitting 30 x 18 inch steel). I've only been using decent range ammo - none of the really good stuff. So, in my mind, it's time for a scope and moving up the challenge level a bit.

I want to prepare for some competition but am torn on how much a guy really needs to invest in a scope. I have the budget for the top end stuff but know I don't need it and don't want to get caught up in the name prestige hype. Do I need something built like a tank to head into a war zone? Nope. Do I like high quality stuff and not have to worry about upgrading? Yes. So, what was the trigger that made some of you guys decide to go with the $1000+ stuff? I hate to throw out another "what the hell do I do" question but I'm really interested to find out when some of you decided to go for the good stuff.

All that said, right now I'm thinking "maybe a Vortex PST is all I'll ever need" and just sticking with that. If I step up, a NF F1 is a strong contender as is the new IOR 3.5-18X50 which raises another question. What does the extra $450 get you with the Nightforce other than a bit of build quality while you're likely giving up some optical quality with the NF?

Anyway, I realize there are a ton of similar questions out there but the first part really intrigues me - when in the heck does a guy know that he really needs a higher quality optic. I understand if you don't have the patience to answer this, but I appreciate any insight that will help me get this straight in my head. The expertise on this forum is incredible - thanks for sharing a bit if you're so inclined!
 
#2
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

When I bought my F1, the PST line wasn't out yet, and even if it was, I'm not sure I'm patient enough to wait months for glass.

My reasoning behind the F1?
Buy once, cry once. I don't regret for one minute getting the NF. As someone relatively new to the long range game, anything that inspires confidence really helps. Do I need a bulletproof scope? No. Do I ever worry about losing zero, damaging, or poor tracking with my scope? Never. For me, that alone is worth the price tag of the NF.
Sure, there are some with better glass, more magnification, etc., but when it comes down to it the F1 is everything I need.
 
#3
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

I think most people new or vet know what they want in an optic.
They realize that what they want cost a bunch of money and start looking for cheaper alternatives and want someone to say that one will do all you want.
Or they want someone to convence them that they need a s&b or they will regret the purchase.
The fact is you know what optic u want and will never be satisfied until you have it.
I am guilty of this as much as anyone second guessing what I know in my gut what I want.
I think you get what you want and hammer down and you will be happy with your purchase.
Not being a smart ass or anything but I have made purchases based on popular believe vs what I really wanted and was disappointed even though my purchase was the more expensive choice.
I would say that any of the optics that you have looked at would work well but u have one that sticks out further in your mind so buy that one.
 
#4
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

It really depends on what type of competition you forsee yourself shooting. If you wind up shooting things like the Snipers Hide comps, you will need a tough scope, preferably in FFP.

Last year, I hit the turret so hard on a concrete culvert that I was surprised it did not rip it off.

If you expect to do only F Class or similar, you may not need the same things.
 
#5
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

There is more than a $450 difference between the F1 and a PST. I think he's asking what he gets going from an IOR to a F1.
 
#6
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lennyo3034</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is more than a <span style="font-weight: bold">$1000</span> difference between the F1 and a PST. I think he's asking what he gets going from an IOR to a F1.</div></div>

Fixed that for you ^
wink.gif
 
#8
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

My suggestion is to be patient, wait for a quality optic like NF, and continually check all of the For Sale threads on lots of gun forums. I have seen (and missed) nightforces going for 1/2 price on craigslist. You might be surprised at some of the deals you can find.

I also look for the used items on the post exchange that some people don't like (ring marks???? Scratches??? I paint my stuff).
 
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#9
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

Some good advice already given here.

Get the best you can afford, and get out and shoot.

Over time you will decide how much (you want to spend) and how far (as your ability increases) you want to go.

In my opinion, it would be a good thing to save up and get the NF.

But if that will delay you a year, then get what you can afford, get out, and shoot.
 
#10
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

I am forced by circumstance to make do with less. Accordingly, I've done some homework in the shallow end of the optics genepool.

I like some of the Tasco offerings, essentially a notch or so above the Wallyworld pegboard hanger stuff.

I have settled on the Tasco VAR624X42M. It's their Varmint/Target 6-24X MilDot scope. Retails in the $80 bracket. Worked fine for me for several years on a Savage custom .260 F Class rifle. It's also an ideal .22LR trainer scope. I have owned four since early 2005, no issues. My dealer says they come in and go out in a week or so.

Adjustable 42mm Objective, covered 1/4MOA target knobs, Mils at 10X, focuses down to 15yd, has 75+MOA of elevation adjustment available. Drwabacks; nearly none except that the image could be brighter under lower light conditions.
 
#11
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when in the heck does a guy know that he really needs a higher quality optic. </div></div>

For me it was sorta simple. I wanted the best variable scope compromise between weight, quality of glass, great low light performance, dependability and either side focus or adjustable objective. The price is secondary.

I made a mistake by buying a scope, based on range of magnification, off the 'net. It was for a lightweight rifle. Alas this scope weighs twenty-one ounces. This caused me to go on the search for he above mentioned scope.
 
#12
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

I feel the same way as OP. What really sucks is I am about 300 from being able to afford a PST, and I am trying to raise those funds. Maybe I should wait until I can get the PST?
 
#13
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

just called my local PST dealer. He said his stcok PST's is several weeks out due to Japan quake.
 
#14
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

FALex,

In order to get the toys I want I constantly set aside $50. I have a savings account which only gets "hunting" money.......every week<span style="font-weight: bold">!</span> The hunting money is used for scopes, gunsmith, ammo, etc. What makes this easier than for most young folks is the kids are gone and everything except the house is paid off. That bill looks like it will be gone this year.

A few years ago I wanted to go hunt pigs in California. I came up with the idea of putting ten bucks away every week for the year. Viola at the end of the year I had two things: enough to get the out of state liscense and an effective way of getting what I want.
 
#16
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

I keep running into this individual demand for the best this, the best that, and the best of the other thing.

If I were the best shooter, I'd probably be doing it myself. But I'm clearly not.

As I implied above, the best that money can buy is out of my reach anyway. So my requirements must be toned down from best to adequate. Whether or not I can front the money is immaterial, there are higher priorities for my limited resources.

This is neither a cop out nor a hanging offense. My implements allow me to put lead where it's wanted.

In the process, the money saved allows me to put more of it in the desired locations. It may even help me become a better shooter faster; but I can't make those promises.

My point is that I have learned, of necessity (but the reason is less important), that demands for ultimate implements on my part are simply an impediment to my improvement. Very simply put, if it keeps me from shooting <span style="font-style: italic">now</span>, and something pretty good but not the utimate won't, then it's not helping me. The thing is, it's such comprimises that tend to deliver me the neatest pleasant surprises.

When the day comes (if it ever comes) that I can mount up a better scope or whatever, and it clearly demonstrates an inadequacy in my current equipment, then I will <span style="font-style: italic">know</span> it's inadequate <span style="font-style: italic">for my particular needs</span>. Until then, I'll leave the top shelf items for the folks whose performance warrants them.

Greg
 
#17
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until then, I'll leave the top shelf items for the folks whose performance warrants them. </div></div>

I purchased everything from Tasco to Swarovski. In fact the last scope is Tasco 4-16 World Class. The one prior to that was a Swarovski and the before that was a 6500. There was a 12-42X56 Nightforce in there somewhere.

The longest shots on game I have accomplished were with Tascos followed by Burris. The more expensive scopes are just because I wanted them; except for that last Swarovski. It acurally filled a nitche for light weight, magnification range, and low light performance. My "performance" doesn't "warrent" it. My desire warrents it.
 
#19
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

Get what you want/need what ever it may be. The only real opinion that matters is yours, cause someone somewhere isn't going to agree with your decision. Instead of worrying about what scope to get, worry about the features. Then find a scope with the features you want that's decent and in your price range. I'm buying another USO because they offer the features I want...
 
#20
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

Thanks guys for all of the insight. Some very good stuff in here. I guess at the end of the day no one really sits down and decides they've hit a plateau in the their shooting and need to move up to "better" optics. Sounds like most folks just buy the most they can afford and go from there. I've got my pennies saved and can buy up into the Premier/S&B/USO/March range but just need to convince myself that I really need to.

Let's say a genie popped out of a bottle, say a really hot Barbara Eden from the '70s, and said, "I grant you $3500 to buy a rifle optic, but only if you buy only the best optic that you NEED. You can pocket the rest." How many people would really buy a Premier/S&B/USO/March? I guess there's no objective way to really figure that one out. As a couple of you wise gentlemen have already implied, it's really an emotion-based decision and logic doesn't always play into it. Thanks, again, for taking the time to respond!
 
#21
Re: Brain damage on the scope thing

I can afford the top of the line S&B, Hensoldt, Zeiss etc. After looking through them and NighForce I didn't see much of a difference and couldn't justify the extra $$$ so I bought NightForce. I now own 3.
 
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