Suppressors Brakes make Suppressors more/less/same effective?

[TheHorta]

Talking about gas guns primarily, but assume it extends to other types.

My brain thinks of different reasons why one would be better than the other. Also, does one type of mount make a suppressor more effective — KeyMo, ASR, Q Cherry Bomb, etc?

Or is direct-thread more effective or essentially the same with regard to suppressor effectiveness?

 

[Zak Smith]

Once the brake is inside the can, it no longer functions as a brake, and the "brake" function of the suppressor takes over.

 

[shoobe01]

Correct regarding your recoil, flash, etc. But do note the type of mount does impact what the max caliber or min barrel length the suppressor can handle so read the manual to check if a change in mount impacts your configuration.

 

[AMGtuned]

Direct thread; if removed and applied often enough, runs the risk of damaging your barrel threads. It could also come loose easier, in comparison to so.ething with a taper type or locking mount.

A brake, compared to a flash hider, will help with blast baffle erosion.

I also believe that a brake will help "fill" the blast chamber, rather than just sending all the violence down the stack.

My opinion and observations; worth what you paid.

 

[hafejd30]

I like the brake for the fact it works as the first blast baffles in a can. Hoping it leads to longer suppressor life. Brakes are a dime a dozen compared to cans. I remember seeing a post (think it was a SilencerCo Omega) where you could clearly see the erosion on the blast baffle from a 3 point flash hider

As far as effectiveness you’d likely need a decibel meter to tell the difference as I can’t with my ears

Gas guns in general are loud just due to the gas operating the bolt. So really you only get as effective as the gas system and supersonic crack allows you to get

 

[TheHorta]

I can see where a brake would help with blast dissipation / timing / tuning.

 

[FuhQ]

As was stated, once the can is installed over the brake, the brake no longer acts like a muzzle brake, the entire suppressor/brake setup acts like a giant muzzle brake as far as reducing recoil. HOWEVER, it does still act like a brake as far as dispersing the hot gasses and flames inside of the blast chamber, helping to mitigate baffle erosion for your first few baffles...Especially with large and magnum cartridges with large powder capacities.

I have also seen the pictures referred to about the 3-prong burning holes in the blast baffle... Just another reason I'll stick with the KeyMo brakes on mine. Plus, if you shoot without the can for some reason, you still get all the benefits of the muzzle brake, like recoil reduction, flatter shooting for faster followup shots, etc...

 

[bohica17]

Brake is considered a sacrificial baffle with a suppressor, more so on the shorter barrels. My mk18 has a break, my 16” ar is a three prong. Oddly enough to my ears the mk18 seems quieter than the longer ar.

 

[hafejd30]

I have heard the brake is supposedly quieter than the flash hider. But can’t confirm that. A properly tuned gas system with a flash hider would likely sound better than an over gassed upper with a brake. I can say that my Ruger ranch 556 is insanely quiet with my Saker asr and 3 prong flash hider

 

[ACard]

@Zak Smith Is it true that the brake helps mitigate wear and tear internally over flash hiders? I am contemplating changing my CB to your flash hider.

 

[Zak Smith]

Yes

 

[hafejd30]

@Zak Smith Is it true that the brake helps mitigate wear and tear internally over flash hiders? I am contemplating changing my CB to your flash hider.

I’m sure that depends on the blast baffle design as well. The Saker 556 I have has a cobalt 6 hoplon baffle. Something designed to handle more wear and tear may not care as much I don’t know.

 

[FatBoy]

Brake is considered a sacrificial baffle with a suppressor, more so on the shorter barrels. My mk18 has a break, my 16” ar is a three prong. Oddly enough to my ears the mk18 seems quieter than the longer ar.

We shot but buddies 7.62 RC2 mini in both his 12.5” DI LMT with a Surefire brake and then moved the can to my 14.5” with an open tipped war comp and shooting the same ammo my rifle was significantly louder.

Sample of one but enough to convince me that I will at lease move away from the war comps for any rifle that is going to run my RC2 when it’s out of jail.

 

[ACard]

I’m sure that depends on the blast baffle design as well. The Saker 556 I have has a cobalt 6 hoplon baffle. Something designed to handle more wear and tear may not care as much I don’t know.







Hood point, I meant

I’m sure that depends on the blast baffle design as well. The Saker 556 I have has a cobalt 6 hoplon baffle. Something designed to handle more wear and tear may not care as much I don’t know.

Good point, I should clarify, specifically with the TBAC cans.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I remember seeing a post (think it was a SilencerCo Omega) where you could clearly see the erosion on the blast baffle from a 3 point flash hider

You mean this one? Sico omega run with a 3 prong on a 10.5" AR (600 rounds) and a handful (200ish) 308 rounds on a 20" bolt gun. That's not carbon...

 

[hafejd30]

You mean this one? Sico omega run with a 3 prong on a 10.5" AR (600 rounds) and a handful (200ish) 308 rounds on a 20" bolt gun. That's not carbon...

View attachment 7808674

That could be it. I thought there were pics of the blast baffle with pronouncing 3 prong wear marks. Either way that’s low low round counts on a can

 

[hafejd30]

Good point, I should clarify, specifically with the TBAC cans.

While I was typing I see Zak responded. His word is the one to trust if your thinking of making the switch with TBAC

 

[Zak Smith]

Just like throat erosion, heat really accelerates baffle wear. I could shoot a can 4000 times and it might look new, or it might look like the photos above if the firing schedule is like a mag-dump-to-max-temp cycle each time.

SBR barrel lengths are worse because of more heat input and more "sandblast" effect.

 

[bohica17]

I have heard the brake is supposedly quieter than the flash hider. But can’t confirm that. A properly tuned gas system with a flash hider would likely sound better than an over gassed upper with a brake. I can say that my Ruger ranch 556 is insanely quiet with my Saker asr and 3 prong flash hider

Mine is a Saker K

 

[hafejd30]

The nice thing about 3 prong vs brake is if you use without the can the concussion/sound is much less with a flash hider. But in a life and death shit hit the fan scenario that won’t matter or be noticeable anyways

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

That could be it. I thought there were pics of the blast baffle with pronouncing 3 prong wear marks. Either way that’s low low round counts on a can

Ahh I think I remember that one, was around the time I posted asking about this one. It's hard to see on mine but where the 3 prongs line up the blast baffle edge is far less eroded. It's the 2 glare spots (3rd covered by the light).

 

[hafejd30]

Saker 556 ASR with about 800-1,000 rounds of Fiocchi 55 gr fmj. 10.5” FN barrel SBR. Brake

This includes some LE training and a Magpul D60 mag dump

Never cleaned

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Saker 556 ASR with about 800-1,000 rounds of Fiocchi 55 gr fmj. 10.5” FN barrel SBR. Brake

This includes some LE training and a Magpul D60 mag dump

Never cleaned
View attachment 7808692

Interesting. Mine was from a class also on the 10.5". No wear when it came off the 20" bolt gun. I used wolf gold for the 600ish rounds I put through it. Fully expected it to be harsh but not as bad as it shows.

Wonder how much ammo/powder selection makes a difference.

 

[bohica17]

This post makes me want to take the three prong off my 16”. There were no breaks available for months and I finally just went with the three prong. I rockset the crap out of it too

 

[Rogue Canuck]

This post makes me want to take the three prong off my 16”. There were no breaks available for months and I finally just went with the three prong. I rockset the crap out of it too

Some water and a wrench will solve that problem.

 

[TheHorta]

So… general consensus seems to be to use a real Brake, and from anecdotal evidence, the more effective the brake is (unsuppressed performance) perhaps the more effective it is inside a suppressor at mitigating blast wear and (maybe) improving harmonics (???)

I have a few TBAC Ultra 9’s and use the CB. Does TBAC make a larger brake? @Zak Smith

 

[hafejd30]

So… general consensus seems to be to use a real Brake, and from anecdotal evidence, the more effective the brake is (unsuppressed performance) perhaps the more effective it is inside a suppressor at mitigating blast wear and (maybe) improving harmonics (???)

I would say the more baffles the brake has would help more than anything one inside the can. As the “brake” ports no longer will do anything at that point

Most suppressor companies like SilencerCo or TBAC only have one type of brake and one type of flash hider for the host mount on a can

Here’s a SilencerCo ASR next to a TBAC CB brake.

 

[TheHorta]

I would say the more baffles the brake has would help more than anything one inside the can. As the “brake” ports no longer will do anything at that point

Most suppressor companies like SilencerCo or TBAC only have one type of brake and one type of flash hider for the host mount on a can

Here’s a SilencerCo ASR next to a TBAC CB brake.
View attachment 7808872

Yeah, I have both as well, and have Q (Cherry Bomb) and Dead Air (KeyMo) as well as direct-thread. I’m “into” Form-1 suppressors as well, so I can actually test the various mounts and brakes on the same suppressors, to a certain extent anyway.

I also wonder if there is any effect on ballistics / POI on the same suppressor — e.g. direct-thread vs using a brake.

All valuable info.

 

[TheOE800]

So… general consensus seems to be to use a real Brake, and from anecdotal evidence, the more effective the brake is (unsuppressed performance) perhaps the more effective it is inside a suppressor at mitigating blast wear and (maybe) improving harmonics (???)

I have a few TBAC Ultra 9’s and use the CB. Does TBAC make a larger brake? @Zak Smith

TBAC’s larger brake uses a different mounting/retention method.

 

[Zak Smith]

So… general consensus seems to be to use a real Brake, and from anecdotal evidence, the more effective the brake is (unsuppressed performance) perhaps the more effective it is inside a suppressor at mitigating blast wear and (maybe) improving harmonics (???)

I have a few TBAC Ultra 9’s and use the CB. Does TBAC make a larger brake? @Zak Smith

Yes but the CB is the largest that will fit into an Ultra 5, 7, 9. If you go to larger frame cans we have the BA and SR brakes. I don't know that I agree with the general statement in the first sentence. It will depend on a bunch of factors. For example, the CB NTB meters the same as the regular full size CB brake in the Ultras.

 

[Snaz]

Yeah, I have both as well, and have Q (Cherry Bomb) and Dead Air (KeyMo) as well as direct-thread. I’m “into” Form-1 suppressors as well, so I can actually test the various mounts and brakes on the same suppressors, to a certain extent anyway.

I also wonder if there is any effect on ballistics / POI on the same suppressor — e.g. direct-thread vs using a brake.

All valuable info.

I've used direct thread, Gemtech bilock, and Reardon Atlas mounts on F1 & a recored HVT using the same rifles. There was no change in accuracy. POI did change a little, as to be expected with the various weights of the mounting systems, but I honestly wasn't really paying attention to that.

 

[db2000]

A rep at SilencerCo previously told me the prong and brake didn’t make any difference once inside the can. I had specifically asked about recoil reduction and noise suppression. I didn’t ask about baffle wear. He didn’t offer that info either and you think he would have if it were a major concern…but who knows. I was speaking of an Omega 30 at the time. They do have a brake for the can but it adds length and I don’t need recoil reduction on the rifles I shoot suppressed most often

 

[TheHorta]

Yeah, not concerned with recoil/brake function. Only whether it improves suppressor performance and/or longevity.

 

[86alaskan]

I've got thousands of rounds of mixed HP rifle through my omega, and most was used with the ASR brake as a QD mount. My Omega looks nothing like the one above, and after a good soak, looks shiny an pretty new on the inside. I fully believe the brake helps considerably with baffle life. just think slo-mo of a rifle firing, a bare muzzle ejects all the flame jet straight out, which would be directly into the baffles. whereas, the brake immediately directs the majority of the blast completely sideways into the blast chamber. I'd bet that the most of the blast in the direct thread torches the first couple baffles way worse than in a QD brake mount setup.

 

[TheHorta]

I've got thousands of rounds of mixed HP rifle through my omega, and most was used with the ASR brake as a QD mount. My Omega looks nothing like the one above, and after a good soak, looks shiny an pretty new on the inside. I fully believe the brake helps considerably with baffle life. just think slo-mo of a rifle firing, a bare muzzle ejects all the flame jet straight out, which would be directly into the baffles. whereas, the brake immediately directs the majority of the blast completely sideways into the blast chamber. I'd bet that the most of the blast in the direct thread torches the first couple baffles way worse than in a QD brake mount setup.

That seems intuitive to me, but my brain is Abby Normal and sometimes don’t werk sew gouda.

 

[AMGtuned]

Yeah, I have both as well, and have Q (Cherry Bomb) and Dead Air (KeyMo) as well as direct-thread. I’m “into” Form-1 suppressors as well, so I can actually test the various mounts and brakes on the same suppressors, to a certain extent anyway.

I also wonder if there is any effect on ballistics / POI on the same suppressor — e.g. direct-thread vs using a brake.

All valuable info.

Are you on Form1.org ? Definitely a good info resource, and always some decent topics. Baffle erosion being one of them.

 

[Fig]

I like the brake for the fact it works as the first blast baffles in a can. Hoping it leads to longer suppressor life. Brakes are a dime a dozen compared to cans. I remember seeing a post (think it was a SilencerCo Omega) where you could clearly see the erosion on the blast baffle from a 3 point flash hider

As far as effectiveness you’d likely need a decibel meter to tell the difference as I can’t with my ears

Gas guns in general are loud just due to the gas operating the bolt. So really you only get as effective as the gas system and supersonic crack allows you to get

What kind of cross threading MoFo are you?

 

[hafejd30]

What kind of cross threading MoFo are you?

Huh?

 

[TheHorta]

Are you on Form1.org ? Definitely a good info resource, and always some decent topics. Baffle erosion being one of them.

I was on Form1 boards back before they were shut down. Didn’t follow them to F1org. Just did now though. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[r.tenorio671]

...not a can owner as cans are still prohibited in my locale, but I do try to keep myself informed "just in case" but I have a question for @Zak Smith. In the use of a brake for a mounting point, how much does the redirection of the initial blast to the walls of the can affect wear rate on that portion? Is a more durable material used or recommended for that portion?

 

[TheHorta]

...not a can owner as cans are still prohibited in my locale, but I do try to keep myself informed "just in case" but I have a question for @Zak Smith. In the use of a brake for a mounting point, how much does the redirection of the initial blast to the walls of the can affect wear rate on that portion? Is a more durable material used or recommended for that portion?

To my understanding (and I’m still new/learning), the blast chamber walls (the first few inches) of most suppressors are thicker to accommodate the force/violence/heat at the muzzle exit area.

 

[Zak Smith]

It's not a wear surface.

 

[AMGtuned]

I was on Form1 boards back before they were shut down. Didn’t follow them to F1org. Just did now though. Thanks for the reminder.

Nice some guys there have an affliction for cans, like you with NV

 

[TheHorta]

Nice some guys there have an affliction for cans, like you with NV

I’m on there now, and I see you are too.

I have a different U/N there.

 

[WindstormSCR]

@TheHorta I’d solidly recommend the Lantac Dragon brake for use with Keymount stuff, amazingly good as a brake, and the design should offer even better performance than the standard Dead Air brakes for baffle wear as well because of the redirection.

Only other thing to add is definitely don’t use it without a can over it in the presence of NV, as like many other effective brakes, It will do no favors to the equipment with the blast generated.

 

[Whiskey 2-1]

Years ago I ran an AAC M4-2000 on a 9.5” POF 5.56 upper. It saw pretty heavy use with SWAT classe, etc. When we sat down with the AAC guys at SHOT I asked them about what to expect with that combo, since 9” was below what they rated it for. They specifically said to run the break rather than flash hider to serve as a sacrificial baffle and prolong can life, so I did. It worked pretty well. I replaced about a break a year due to erosion. When I would spin it off, you could easily drop a .30 projectile through the break without touching the sides. The can, however, held up well. Oh, the days when Department ammo flowed like water……
Since then, my hard use cans have always been used with a break.

Doc

 

[FuhQ]

@TheHorta I’d solidly recommend the Lantac Dragon brake for use with Keymount stuff, amazingly good as a brake, and the design should offer even better performance than the standard Dead Air brakes for baffle wear as well because of the redirection.

Only other thing to add is definitely don’t use it without a can over it in the presence of NV, as like many other effective brakes, It will do no favors to the equipment with the blast generated.

I wouldn't buy Lantac... A buddy of mine had a Dragon brake on his 5.56 AR, and it started eroding after about 1,000 rounds (unsuppressed), and Lantac told him that was "normal" and it was a "consumable item"... Ummm, maybe, but not chewed up like that after 1,000 rounds. That's just shitty raw materials, and shitty heat-treating. It looked like those baffles in Post # 15.