Brass Cleaning

[rickp]

Hey guys,
I got an ultrasonic cleaner the other day for about $25, it a small cleaner and the specs are comparabile to others i've seen on the net. The only drawback is this thing only runs for 3 minutes so I have to keep hitting the button to keep it running for longer times.
I also tried the recipe for the ultrasonic cleaner as recommended here http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

IMO all this isn't too efficient.

So my question is, how important is it to REALLY clean the inside of the brass, and can I use the dillon tumbler with stainless steel media.

I have a dillon tumbler and it works well in cleaning brass but as you can imagine it doesn't really clean the inside.

Thanks
R.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Brass Cleaning

Would recomend against using the Dillon with the SS media.

Best guess you would eat right throught the wall on a Dillon

 

[SPAK]

Re: Brass Cleaning

+1 on ss media, but for the ultrasonic, I would try using citranox. That worked very well for me.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Brass Cleaning

It's critical that reloaders remove every smidgeon of carbon caked inside the cases or our sling swivels may rust and the line of sight could sag. Otherwise, tumbling really doesn't do anything but install a cosmetically attractive surface.

We have two types of tumblers; rotary and vibarator. The vibs work with dry media. Rotaries may use dry media OR wet; wet allows the use of the expensive bits of stainless steel wire and the magic formula of your choice for the liquid.

Cheap ultrasonics suck for cases. They are too small, much too weak and don't run more than a few minutes without several minutes of cool down time. Attempting to clean a hundered .308 cases like what you see in other folks nice photos takes forever and the cases are wet with you finish.

Use the right tool for the job at hand. Ultrasonics are for cleaning jewelery and small mechanical parts. Vib tumblers (and dry media, nut or cob really doesn't matter,both work fine) are for brass cases. Rotary tumblers are for polishing rocks.

 

[Swan]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I am currently "testing" the clean brass vs. dirty brass dilemma right now with my rifle and my brother's as well. I tumble and spit shine my brass until it sparkles and glows. It's really beautiful. We just run a bronze brush in his to get the grime out, it lacks the eye candy appeal.

I have yet to able to tell a difference while shooting them. Same caliber, same chamber reamer, exact same load, barrel length, etc.

 

[BK7saum]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I've used vibratory cleaners with dry media and recently purchased an ultrasonic. After cleaning a few cases with the ultrasonic, I will keep it mostly for cleaning gun parts. It does a good job of breaking loose the carbon in the primer pockets after about 2-3 cycles, but again you have to dry the cases before you can prime and load them. I suspect that it breaks down and removes the carbon from the inside of the case as well.

I'm not sure about the rotary tumbler with ss media. Haven't made up my mind about it yet. Not planning on buying one any time soon. It's a lot of expense just to get the equipment and media, then you still have the wet cases to contend with.

I am not worried about carbon buildup and residue inside the case or primer pockets either. Guess I'll just replace my dry media and continue with what has been working for me.

BLK7

 

[fish30114]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I like having my brass all the way clean, including the inside. I feel that vibratory's are just polisher really, shining up the outside, and with walnut or corn-cob they never hit the primer pockets much if any....I have heard of a few 'combinations' of dry mix, plastic, corn cob & ceramic that get the inside of the case and the primer pockets clean. Haven't been able to source any yet....

The results of the stainless in the wet tumbler look awesome, and if you are going to a wet process I think that is the one to go with. I have a 42,000 cycle vibratory that you can set for up to 90 minutes, I get mixed results, and don't like using vinegar based solutions. I use Citranox now, and it doesn't do any better based on my experience so far...may need to increase the strength, have gone by online recommendations so far, at it isn't any better than the vinegar and water--although probably cheaper. If I continue witha wet process I plan on using my Thumbler with the stainless if I can't figure out a better solution and achieve better results with ultrasonic.

I'm curious to know if anyone has experience with the Hornady ultrasonic cleaners and solutions.

 

[rickp]

Re: Brass Cleaning

Fuzzball,
You're soooo right about the ultrasonic cleaners.

Swan,
Please let us know what you come up with in your test. Depending on how critical the inside cleaning is, is how I'll probably clean mine.
I could care less how pritty it looks, shiny brass does nothing for my shooting. But if my dillon tumbler with dry media does the job, then great, I'm already setup for that.

Thanks guys.
R.

 

[rickp]

Re: Brass Cleaning

hey fish,
I bought the Hornady solution and used it with my 42,000 power ultrasonic cleaner and it did an ok job I guess. i mean it wasn't anything that made me jump up and down and say to myself,"this is it".

Primer pockets are not that big a deal for me, because once you run though the wholes with the tool, it gets all the junk out.

It's the inside walls I'm concerned about. Do they have to be clean to ensure good accuracy?

R.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Brass Cleaning

"I am currently "testing" the clean brass vs. dirty brass dilemma right now ..."

Now Swan, I really doubt that you are putting "dirty brass" in your brother's rifle, bet it's as clean as yours! NOT polished of coarse but clean...and that, as you are finding out, is all we need! Surface stains mean nothing to the rifle or dies.

I haven't actually polished a case in ages. I put a few ounces of diatomacious earth in a fresh batch of cob sometime back, it cleans the outside beautifully and leaves a matt surface exactly like factory new brass. After months of use the media is still clean, not black from polish. That's good for me 'cause I don't care for glittery yellow chrome, artifically shiney looking cases anyway!

Being concerned about the light carbon stain on the inner surface after a normal tumbling is pointless trivia IMHO.

 

[Swan]

Re: Brass Cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I am currently "testing" the clean brass vs. dirty brass dilemma right now ..."

Now Swan, I really doubt that you are putting "dirty brass" in your brother's rifle, bet it's as clean as yours! NOT polished of coarse but clean...and that, as you are finding out, is all we need! Surface stains mean nothing to the rifle or dies.

I haven't actually polished a case in ages. I put a few ounces of diatomacious earth in a fresh batch of cob sometime back, it cleans the outside beautifully and leaves a matt surface exactly like factory new brass. After months of use the media is still clean, not black from polish. That's good for me 'cause I don't care for glittery yellow chrome, artifically shiney looking cases anyway!

Being concerned about the light carbon stain on the inner surface after a normal tumbling is pointless trivia IMHO. </div></div>

Well, actually, we just clean the inside of the necks... So, ya, it's a bit dirtier than what my brass looks like. My point was that it is probably a waste of time even tumbling or cleaning at all, other than the case necks, even though I still do it. I'm stubborn like that.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Brass Cleaning

My folks just gave me a Hornady Ultrasonic for Xmas.. It works ok I guess. I was picturing it blasting away all the black from everything, and leaving everything sparkly clean. Not so much. It does blast of 95% of the crap in the primer pockets, and the rest of the brass is squeaky clean inside and out. I haven't been tumbling or cleaning my brass in any way other than using a primer pocket tool, and then only half the time when I don't feel too lazy. We will see if I squeeze any more accuracy out of my loads, I doubt that I will see much difference. I do like having clean cases though, especially when I don't have to do anything other than throw them in the cleaner and hit the button.

 

[insectguy]

Re: Brass Cleaning

Although the rotary tumbler may be for rocks, every person I've shown my results has bought one. I only use the stainless pins for the 338LM-- everything else only gets the Dawn dishwashing liquid and Lemishine. I dry the cases in a food dehydrator (and it works like a charm!).

YMMV, but I'll never go back to a vibratory tumbler.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I watch BR guys clean the carbon off there necks with 0000 steel wool or a Krazy Klothe, brush there necks, and load right next to there rifles, and guess what they shoot really small groups, so I sometimes think aloud that we are all wasting our money on SS media and thumblers model b HS rotary tumblers, or US machines and all there chemicals, then I come to my senses and realize that 20 pieces of brass won't cut it, I need 250-300 pieces and I ain't polishing them all by hand.

 

[fish30114]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I actually have seen the same results for the benchresters, and that really tells you that it's not that critical to get the brass 'all the way' clean, inside and out. I do like the feeling of it being clean in and out though. I have always tumbled (polished) my brass a bit, and then uniformed the pockets, never brushed a neck after a 500 round comparison test I did with two different rifles. sooooo, I still like the feeling of getting the brass clean inside....go figure

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Brass Cleaning

Ultrasonic works good to get the case lube off and doesn't leave bits of corn cob in the flash hole. Corncob sticks in the necks from the lube. Dry them over night, no big deal. I do big (250-300) batches so I don't have to do this everytime I reload. I tumble for the first cleaning before sizing.

 

[jmtyndall]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I got a cheap ultrasonic to try out. Can't seem to get very clean unless it runs at least 20 mins. And it only fits 10 308!

I'll just tumble thanks. Stainless when I get rich

 

[Ballistic308]

Re: Brass Cleaning

It's not important to clean the inside of the cartridge body, but it more important to have the inside of the neck clean so there is consistant neck tention. I use a 9mm bronze brush in a drill/drill press and it makes quick work of it.

ETA: I've cut open 308 cases which have been fired 5 times and there isn't significant build up of carbon.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Brass Cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't actually polished a case in ages. I put a few ounces of diatomacious earth in a fresh batch of cob sometime back, it cleans the outside beautifully and leaves a matt surface exactly like factory new brass. After months of use the media is still clean, not black from polish. That's good for me 'cause I don't care for glittery yellow chrome, artifically shiney looking cases anyway! </div></div>

Years ago there were problems from people putting jeweler's rouge in tumblers. Rouge residue stayed in cases and fried barrels way soon. Borescopes revealed what appeared to be rouge worn into the barrels.

I'd think twice before adding diatomacious earth to a tumbler.

Corn cob for the cases...primer pocket uniformer cleans the pockets. My $.02

 

[KiwiShtr]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I use a Thumblers Tumbler and SS media with water and a little Dawn, Comes out like new.

 

[bcat13]

Re: Brass Cleaning

White vinegar and hot water. Half water and half vinegar it is cheap and works great. It will surprise you!

 

[marduk185]

Re: Brass Cleaning

i use a vibe for convenience now but fer awhile when i started reloading i only used 0000 steel wool to smooth and get any dirt off the exterior and ran with it. never had an issue.

 

[badbot]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I spent the cash for the stainless steel and I am using a harbor freight tumbler and what ever liquid dish wash my wife has under the sink.
all my brass looks amazing and I spent less than $100.

3/4 fill with brass add SS to that, cover with RO water and 1 shot of Dish soap.
run for 4 hours rinse with tap water until black stuff is gone leave water to top, turn brass mouth down and SS slips out under water toss brass on to paper towel then roll them around and stand them on end primer hole up.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Brass Cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Years ago there were problems from people putting jeweler's rouge in tumblers. Rouge residue stayed in cases and fried barrels way soon. Borescopes revealed what appeared to be rouge worn into the barrels.

I'd think twice before adding diatomacious earth to a tumbler.

Corn cob for the cases...primer pocket uniformer cleans the pockets. My $.02 </div></div>

Makes one wonder about Lyman's rouge-bearing walnut that seems so common these days...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=557992

 

[boltstop]

Re: Brass Cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am currently "testing" the clean brass vs. dirty brass dilemma right now with my rifle and my brother's as well. I tumble and spit shine my brass until it sparkles and glows. It's really beautiful. We just run a bronze brush in his to get the grime out, it lacks the eye candy appeal.

I have yet to able to tell a difference while shooting them. Same caliber, same chamber reamer, exact same load, barrel length, etc. </div></div>

There seems to be so much bullshit mixed with some truth in the reloading world that it amazes the mind. Certain of small details when attended to, make a difference on the firing line - seating depth, bullet choice, powder choice. Then, some bizzare rituals become part and parcel of the reloading game; they foster their own belief of efficacy totally independent from testable reality. Their acceptance is near total (e.g. BRASS MUST BE CLEAN ENOUGH TO PERFORM SURGERY WITH), and usually this requires the shooter to go out and buy another $368 worth of gear to "be in with the cool crowd."

Then occasionally a guy comes along like Swan and just tells everybody the truth - that it doesn't make any identifiable difference.

 

[boltstop]

Re: Brass Cleaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Years ago there were problems from people putting jeweler's rouge in tumblers. Rouge residue stayed in cases and fried barrels way soon. Borescopes revealed what appeared to be rouge worn into the barrels.

I'd think twice before adding diatomacious earth to a tumbler.

Corn cob for the cases...primer pocket uniformer cleans the pockets. My $.02 </div></div>

Makes one wonder about Lyman's rouge-bearing walnut that seems so common these days...

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=557992 </div></div>

Read the reviews - back in 2004 - 2007 timeframe, everybody was having the same experience with that crappy Lyman red walnut dust-storm I had. I've just thrown out the last of that junk myself. Come 2008 'till now those reviews have become all "5-star wonders," and the participants tell you how great a product it is... even while they're explaining how they have to tumble the brass with different media to get the crappy red dust out of the cases.

So let me get this straight - You've got to clean the cases as a result of cleaning the cases?

Sumthin' there ain't right.

 

[s4b1106]

Re: Brass Cleaning

I got a Hornady US cleaning for Christmas. Not too worried about having surgically clean brass, just want my stuff clean enough not to score my sizing die. Since obtaining a supressor, I have learned the real meaning of fouled brass! The Dillon vibrator won't touch it. The Hornady doesn't clean it completely, but it is an improvement over the vibrator. Have to run it 3 or 4 cycles, though. I am gonna try the vinegar and water with it and see how that does.