I am having a problem with a Rem 700 that has a bartlien barrel on it and every shot since new chamber, the brass sticks in it after fireing it. I have a pretty tigth head space on it (under .002 from the go gauge)I dont think that it has to do with over pressure as the bolt handle with lift fine but needs to be hit with my palm to get it to extract. Im fairly certain that primary extraction cam is not making proper contact but it seems to be more than just that. The brass has a few scratches, but they are running length wise on the brass so Im assuming its from feeding and not a problem in the chamber. Why is my brass sticking, and is there a means to repair this or is it going to need a new barrel?
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Gunsmithing Brass sticking in chamber
- Thread starter Messmaker
- Start date
Does all brass stick or just one particular brand?
I have a 700 5R with factory barrel and one particular brand will stick in its chamber every shot but extracts fine in my other 308's.
I have a 700 5R with factory barrel and one particular brand will stick in its chamber every shot but extracts fine in my other 308's.
Did you do a load development or are you just using an existing load you’ve used before and are assuming that it’s not over pressure?
So, you don’t have a hard bolt lift, but difficult extraction is very often a sign of over-pressure as I’m sure you are aware.
What makes you suspect that it’s the primary extraction cam? Is this an action you’ve used before or is it also new?
So, you don’t have a hard bolt lift, but difficult extraction is very often a sign of over-pressure as I’m sure you are aware.
What makes you suspect that it’s the primary extraction cam? Is this an action you’ve used before or is it also new?
It was during load work up and to verify I backed a few cartridges way down and still doing it hence the pretty sure it’s not a over pressure situation. 75gr retumbo, 180 Berger vld, should not cause pressure in any rifle. Also my experience has been that sticky bolt lift always accompanies hard extraction from over pressure.
Well, my experience has been that if someone poses a question asking for help to solve an issue, but provides only minimal information, I’m pretty sure that it’s an extraction problem. Meaning that we’re going to have to extract the information out of them one post at a time until we get enough information so that we don’t have to be Karnak the Magnificent to invoke the answer from the ether.
Just kidding you a little, but also not. You cannot assume that we know anything about you and/or your process, nor how you arrived at the situation you are posing. The more information you can provide to us, the more likely it is that we might be able to help you arrive at an answer and possibly a solution.
Now, a few more questions. Why do you assume that the vertical scratches are from feeding? If you don’t know for sure, then you need to verify. Run some loaded ammo through your rifle without firing and see if those same vertical scratches are there.
Who reamed the chamber? You or your smith? Just because the same reamer was used on both barrels doesn’t guarantee that the chambers are exactly the same. Is it possible that the reamer is dull now or got damaged?
Have you considered bumping that shoulder back more than 0.001”?
And finally, are you full length sizing this brass or only neck size and bump?
Just kidding you a little, but also not. You cannot assume that we know anything about you and/or your process, nor how you arrived at the situation you are posing. The more information you can provide to us, the more likely it is that we might be able to help you arrive at an answer and possibly a solution.
Now, a few more questions. Why do you assume that the vertical scratches are from feeding? If you don’t know for sure, then you need to verify. Run some loaded ammo through your rifle without firing and see if those same vertical scratches are there.
Who reamed the chamber? You or your smith? Just because the same reamer was used on both barrels doesn’t guarantee that the chambers are exactly the same. Is it possible that the reamer is dull now or got damaged?
Have you considered bumping that shoulder back more than 0.001”?
And finally, are you full length sizing this brass or only neck size and bump?
I took the barrel off last night to look for something in the chamber that could potentially be holding the case in, ie burr, or chatter marks. I did not find anything in the chamber that appeared to abnormal. I did the the barrel and I did inspect the reamer as i always do before using it and in this case I looked at again last night to verify that something hadnt changed during the machining process and I did not find anything suspect. Not sure how to tell the sharpness od a reamer but if feels about the same as new unused other PTG reamers I own and it did not leave any chatter that was visible in the chamber or on the brass. I will try and get a pic of the brass tonight when I get home and part of the reason I believe the marks are from feeding and not the chamber is because only a couple have it. I have seen chambers that have machining marks and the brass is consistently marked on everyone in the same place, at least that has been my experience.
Also sorry for not having all the info I could think of up front but part of the benefit of having open dialogue is to flesh out some of the obvious things that maybe I didnt think of while posting the original question.
Also sorry for not having all the info I could think of up front but part of the benefit of having open dialogue is to flesh out some of the obvious things that maybe I didnt think of while posting the original question.
I had the exact same issue. It wasn't a hot load, and the same brass would stick in one Criterion barrel and not the other. I ended up buying an RCBS small base 6.5 Creedmoor die and it solved the issue.
You wouldn’t be the only one that has solved a similar issue with a small base die, but it interests me as to why one chamber requires it and another will not.
The barrel that stuck brass was a replacement of the old barrel. They weren't bought at the same time, so I'm assuming Criterion had a different reamer for the new one. Now I only use a small base die to size brass. It may work the brass more but I think it's worth not having unexpected issues, and it should function fine in adverse conditions or with a dirty chamber.
I have a R700 ADL Varmint .308. Probably 5-6 years old. I don’t know if this will help, as you are talking custom stuff. Mine does that with PPU Match for example. Hornady, Remington, no problem. I don’t reload. I’ve read about bolt timing issues on this era of Rs.
Primary extraction was all of the problem with my Rem 700.
After the lugs were trued I lost some primary extraction and had to slap it around a bit like you are doing.
I had to weld a bit to get primary extraction upon bolt lift and problem solved.
Not the first time I have heard of this. Checking other rifles I own I was amazed at how little the R 700 had compared to others. Most actions give quite a bit of primary extraction. Later Rems not so much if any.
IMHO Remington has really screwed the pooch on that the last few years and they used to be better.
Saved a few cents per action and now we, the end users, are paying for it and they still aren't sure where to solder the bolt handles on.
After the lugs were trued I lost some primary extraction and had to slap it around a bit like you are doing.
I had to weld a bit to get primary extraction upon bolt lift and problem solved.
Not the first time I have heard of this. Checking other rifles I own I was amazed at how little the R 700 had compared to others. Most actions give quite a bit of primary extraction. Later Rems not so much if any.
IMHO Remington has really screwed the pooch on that the last few years and they used to be better.
Saved a few cents per action and now we, the end users, are paying for it and they still aren't sure where to solder the bolt handles on.
I did a little more investigation this evening and shot a few more rounds. All felt stuck in the chamber as before. I talked to a machinist friend and he had the same issue because of primary extraction as well. He told me to get a small feeler gauge and put it between the cam and the bolt and sure enough it ejected with very little effort. So now the question is how do I fix the problem without spending a bunch of money on a new bolt.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
@LongRifles Inc.
Longriflesinc.com
You're welcome
Longriflesinc.com
GUNSMITHING SERVICES: Time/TIG and Time advance/Tig Handle attachement for M700
Our Bolt handle fitting process for the M700 restores the Primary Extraction feature after the action has been blueprinted. Careful TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding aids in joint reliability by creating a stronger union at the shear point between the bolt handle and bolt body. The process we...
www.longriflesinc.com
You're welcome
Your information is still confusing. If you give us information in the form of a list, bulletpoints, or similar it would help.
Or send it to LRI
Or send it to LRI
My gunsmith TIG welded a small bit where the bolt handle hits the cam and smoothed it all up. Works great now. It does not take much.
I may be wrong, but, I think it is either weld more cam to the receiver or relocate the bolt handle. Both give the same results, more primary extraction.
Which part do you want to get hot enough for the weld to stick?
Once we got this figured out I looked at other bolt action rifles I have and noted their primary extraction length and do really feel Remington screwed the pooch on these actions. Those other actions have substantial primary extraction where the newer Rem. is obviously less than what is needed.
My older Remingtons are good but these newer ones are obviously not and don't even get close to some Mauser action rifles I have.
When I was fighting this and after we got it figured out I went to a large gun store and looked at new Remington 700s to check primary extraction on them and it is very obvious they have done nothing to correct the problem. One rifle I looked at in 30/06 had 0 primary extraction and I knew whoever bought that one was not going to be happy.
It is sad to see what the bean counters and lack of people who know how actions work has done to Remington.
I have bought my last Remington until they get their collective heads out of their asses.
I may be wrong, but, I think it is either weld more cam to the receiver or relocate the bolt handle. Both give the same results, more primary extraction.
Which part do you want to get hot enough for the weld to stick?
Once we got this figured out I looked at other bolt action rifles I have and noted their primary extraction length and do really feel Remington screwed the pooch on these actions. Those other actions have substantial primary extraction where the newer Rem. is obviously less than what is needed.
My older Remingtons are good but these newer ones are obviously not and don't even get close to some Mauser action rifles I have.
When I was fighting this and after we got it figured out I went to a large gun store and looked at new Remington 700s to check primary extraction on them and it is very obvious they have done nothing to correct the problem. One rifle I looked at in 30/06 had 0 primary extraction and I knew whoever bought that one was not going to be happy.
It is sad to see what the bean counters and lack of people who know how actions work has done to Remington.
I have bought my last Remington until they get their collective heads out of their asses.
Yeah, good idea to insult someone who is genuinely trying to help you. Bonus troll points for you...
Or instead, you could thank him for his interest in helping you and that you are going to use the other great information provided to you willingly by other members. In case you were too busy thinking up snarky answers and missed it, it looks like you been provided all the information needed to Resolve your issue. You are welcome.
For what it is worth???
I don't believe either candidate has both oars in the water.
I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of voting for the lessor of 2 evils.
I don't believe either candidate has both oars in the water.
I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of voting for the lessor of 2 evils.
It's also possible the chamber finish is too slick. Last step in chambering is usually a light pass with fine abrasive to give the brass something to "bite" under pressure. Easier on lugs as well. If this started the same time as your new barrel, probably something changed in the barrel, rather than the lugs or bolt handle extraction cam timing. If the chamber has a mirror-like finish, give it a quick pass with 400+ grit paper with a few drops of oil. Wipe down and shoot it. Nothing to lose.
Maybe after the chambering process there was 0.001 difference between the diameter of the chambers (which would be unreasonable to check on a barrel that was already on an action) and, as we all know, 0.001" makes a difference (seriously, it does).
Don't worry, it wont have a mirror like finish. we polish chambers to optical finish for chrome line to get the lay as flat as possible before crudding with chrome, but the standard unchromed is not approached like that in general. If you said you have longitudinal lines on your brass, give Bartlein a call and see if they are ok with you running a chamber size flex hone thru. Breaks up the axial lines which could cause a less than smooth, you can run it on a dewalt on slow with a lot of oil and a bit of back and forth. Dimensions won't change, just breaking up the pattern.
Thanks I will give that a try if what im working on now doesnt fix it. Im sure its not to polished too much as I always scuff them with 320 and then move to 400 after chambering. Im tig welding the handle on tonight with .010 gap, it had about .035 before so it pretty much had zero primary extraction. I'll report back after I fire it tomorrow whether or not it fixed my issue.
It’s not polished too much, unless by polish you mean sanding it to point the chamber body is shaped like a football.
First thing I’d try is new brass in this chamber. I’d bet it’ll size and extract just fine after that.
First thing I’d try is new brass in this chamber. I’d bet it’ll size and extract just fine after that.
So I think we have this down to primary extraction? given it is Remington?
I have looked at older bolt actions I have and compared to the Rems. it is amazing how far back primary extractions went.
We aren't talking thousandths, we are talking around a 1/4 inch. They didn't fuck around.
I went through this same hassle and it took me a while to realize primary bolt lift action was not taking place.
Shame on Remington for putting out a good rifle with so little cam action to it. What were those bean counters thinking?
Find a gunsmith that can TIG some metal where it needs to be and be over with this hassle.
I have looked at older bolt actions I have and compared to the Rems. it is amazing how far back primary extractions went.
We aren't talking thousandths, we are talking around a 1/4 inch. They didn't fuck around.
I went through this same hassle and it took me a while to realize primary bolt lift action was not taking place.
Shame on Remington for putting out a good rifle with so little cam action to it. What were those bean counters thinking?
Find a gunsmith that can TIG some metal where it needs to be and be over with this hassle.
Just as a follow up, I switched from Hornady brass to Nosler brass and it is no longer sticking. Although the primary extraction is still pretty much non exsistant, at least compared to every other custom action I own, the problem seems to be resolved with different brass.
Thanks for all the replies and help guys.
Thanks for all the replies and help guys.
