I'm shooting a 6.5cm savage model 12 with a Hornady 129grain round. It has a bull barrel so it's thicker and supposed to withstand more rounds through the barrel but it seems like it's pretty hot after 20-30 rounds? Between what amount of rounds should I stop and let her cool down?
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Breaking for the barrel to cool.
- Thread starter Thartley
- Start date
During matches shooters will typically shoot 20 plus rounds in a relay without any issues due to barrel heat. It's a different story with a light weight or "pencil" barrel. 2-3 rounds through one of those and you can put it up for a while. Just don't leave a cartridge in your hot chamber more than about 12-15 seconds without sending it. It will make more of a difference in your ammo than the barrel will in affecting the flight.
That a why I bring several rifles to the range at one time, a couple of bolt action some kind of fun semi and a 22lr to pass the time while the bolt action barrels cool off a bit. Ten to twenty round string in 15-20 minutes is plenty fast.
Cheers.
Cheers.
^^This!. I have a heavier M40 style barrel and can shoot countless rounds without an issue, but if I let one set for a while in the barrel the impact is off.
Yeah, actually I just figured that out for myself last week.. I started running all my loads through a chrono, and every successive shot was a little faster than the one before it.. Figured out that it was because I was closing the bolt and letting the bullet "cook" before I fired it off. Once I figured out that is a bad thing, my bullets stopped crawling up the target..
SO MANY little details in this hobby can make or break you.. lol
D
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When you start shooting outside your own personal accuracy and you can positively blame it on the heat.
20-30 rounds with no cool down?
Only when I'm shooting for score/record and I'm on the clock.
It is ABSOLUTELY more abusive to fire a round out of a hot barrel than a cool one.
When shooting for score I shoot as fast as is necessary. When plinking and/or practicing, I generally try to give the barrel a break every 5-10 rounds...unless it's my "rounds whore" (308).
Only when I'm shooting for score/record and I'm on the clock.
It is ABSOLUTELY more abusive to fire a round out of a hot barrel than a cool one.
When shooting for score I shoot as fast as is necessary. When plinking and/or practicing, I generally try to give the barrel a break every 5-10 rounds...unless it's my "rounds whore" (308).
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I need to invent a refrigeration system to put on rifle barrels.
You just need to take a generator or extension cord with you to plug the compressor in and lug around the condenser unit and the evaporator tube that will be a slip on/clamp on style attachment for your barrel.
You just need to take a generator or extension cord with you to plug the compressor in and lug around the condenser unit and the evaporator tube that will be a slip on/clamp on style attachment for your barrel.
I've heard differing opinions on using water to cool barrels between shots. Most of the naysayers seem to base their objections on theoretical effects on the metal. Those who favor it seem to base their opinions on actual experience, and the consensus seems to be that it works well and has no significant detrimental effect. I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet, but I did buy a couple of water bottles with a short tube attached that I'm planning to use at my next range session.
Nice thing about our range is it rarely gets over low-mid 70's and the wind is ALWAYS blowing. It's pretty much an air-conditioned fan.
Ha! First time I've heard of constant wind at a range referred to as a good thing!
Isnt there a barrel sleeve company that puts a heat sink material into the space between the sleeve and barrel. Teledyne, maybe?
Seems I read something about their barrels not heating any after an abusive string of fire.
Seems I read something about their barrels not heating any after an abusive string of fire.
Your hand is a good thermometer. When out shooting steel I stop when the barrel gets too hot to hold but this is a rare occasion because I don't see the fun in hitting a steel over and over again as the challenge is gone. The only time I shoot more than 10 rounds in succession anymore is during a match on long stages.
Heat is heat whether a barrel is thick or thin and heat is the main contributing factor to throat erosion. A thicker barrel will withstand longer strings before throwing shots but that's a different subject.
Heat is heat whether a barrel is thick or thin and heat is the main contributing factor to throat erosion. A thicker barrel will withstand longer strings before throwing shots but that's a different subject.
Can't help how fast you have to shoot in matches - It was 102 in the shade at our match yesterday (my Kestral said 115 on the line) - we were shooting 12 rounds in a bout 5 mintues at 800, 900 and 1,000. I had zero issues with grouping or elevation at those distances. Granted, I kept my loaded mags deep in my pack and only chambered a round right before firing. I run a heavy palma contour.
Now what is important is throat erosion. Shooting a hot barrel will accelerate throat erosion. The hotter the barrel, the faster the erosion - so I do take breaks during practice so I don't run it too hot.
Now what is important is throat erosion. Shooting a hot barrel will accelerate throat erosion. The hotter the barrel, the faster the erosion - so I do take breaks during practice so I don't run it too hot.
No mercy when it comes to my .223 or .308. The higher wear cartridges definitely get babied a lot more.
I bought one of those battery powered air mattress pumps at wally world, hooked a clear hose to it. I made a plastic cone shaped reducer for the end of the hose that will fit in my barrel.. I just stick it in the end of my barrel while I am going to check my target.. It blows a surprisingly large amount of air, and will cool the barrel fairly quickly... It does make a little noise, but who cares about noise during target practice...
Hoodlum
Hoodlum
IF you can't hold onto it, it's too hot. Can you wait for it to cool? Then it will last longer. Since barrel life is measured in seconds, and it's a consumable just like ammo. I don't obsess about it. When it turns white and starts to droop, it's best to stop.
Graham, maybe YOUR MG does not use water, but I do still love my Vickers
Graham, maybe YOUR MG does not use water, but I do still love my Vickers
Someone asked for a pic of a water-cooled bolt rifle:
Joel Pendergraft Sets New IBS 1000-Yard Heavy Gun World Record « Daily Bulletin
Mr Pendergraft`s tension-barrel water-cooled setup is sweet IMO. Not exactly tacticool, but its a darn good shooting rifle with a darn good shooter pulling the trigger and loading the ammo.
HOWEVER, for what its worth, I dont think the barrel system on that rifle is the reason it shot so well. Theres something to be said for those BIB flat-base bullets though IMO when it comes to pure accuracy. That record has been broken, multiple times over, with conventional barrel setups. All manners of these types of unusual barrel systems have been tested in 1000yd BR, shroud with tension, shroud with compression, shroud with neither tension nor compression, etc and despite all the tuning they all shot roughly round shaped groups with the winners usually being in the 3-4" for 10 shots on good days. Experimentation is good as thats how this stuff advances, but so far you really wont find a setup thats more accurate for 1Kyd 10 shot group/score than just a plain ~1.450" diameter or even up to 1.750" diameter barrel mounted/glued into a barrel block.
I realize a new small-group 10 shot record was set with a Light Gun by Jim Richards with his 6 Dasher using most likely a HV contour barrel(probably around ~.950" at muzzle):
Best 10-Shot, 1000-Yard Group in History ? Be Amazed « Daily Bulletin
And no doubt the Dashers and 6x47L`s/6.5x47L Light Guns shoot amazing; just as good and sometimes better than the Heavy Guns if you will, when conditions are right. As we all know though conditions are rarely perfect. And in MOST cases, what you`ll see is that the Heavy Guns outshoot the Light Guns, provided equal skill among the trigger pullers. And those winning Heavy Guns will, a huge majority of the time, be setup very similarly to Mr Matt Kline`s former record-holding rifle(ie ~1.450" x ~30" barrel set in a barrel block chambered in .300 WSM or 6 Dasher):
Matt Kline Shoots 2.815? Record at 1000 Yards with 300 WSM « Daily Bulletin
And those are pretty much the calibers to beat: .300 WSM for the windy days, 6 Dasher or 6x47L for the calm ones IMO. The .284 and 6.5-284 are certainly capable as well. I also think it warrants experimenting for someone to take some .308 Win Lapua PALMA small primer brass and neck it down to .260 Improved or 6.5 SLR or something similar. Not sure why no one has done it yet(aside from the brass prep hassle) but IMO a .260 Improved or 6.5 SLR with a small primer/small flash hole brass should be just as accurate/low SD/low ES as the 6BR/Dasher/x47L but with much better ballistics. Not to mention you would see way longer brass life, or the ability to push higher pressure/velocity than regular .260/.308 brass.
Anyway, all that is off-topic. I agree with the above, if youre shooting a bull barrel, or something along the lines of a light palma/Remington Varmint contour or bigger then it should have no problem pulling off a consistent 20-shot string. Again this will depend on the quality of the barrel though. When it gets too hot to hold your hand on it or atleast uncomfortable, thats when Id let it cool just for the sake of throat life unless in competition. You`ll notice a lot of the top BR shooters go through barrels like mad men just to find that one "hummer" as they are most definitely not all created equal.
If your barrel truly is walking as it heats up though, there may be something you want to try. Ive never had it done, but the guy with the 10-shot Light Gun record group I posted above, Mr Jim Richards, he swears by cryo-freezing all his barrels and apparently thats exactly what that treatment does; prevents the barrel from walking as it gets hot and Ive read its supposed to make it easier to machine as well. Hes not the only one Ive heard recommend it either. Anyway, Mr Jim Richard`s scores and records speak for themselves and he really swears by the cryo-freezing as a huge reason for his success; as I said his success speaks for itself so Id be inclined to take his word for it especially considering how cheap it is to have it done, $12.50 I believe correct me if Im wrong.
Joel Pendergraft Sets New IBS 1000-Yard Heavy Gun World Record « Daily Bulletin
Mr Pendergraft`s tension-barrel water-cooled setup is sweet IMO. Not exactly tacticool, but its a darn good shooting rifle with a darn good shooter pulling the trigger and loading the ammo.
HOWEVER, for what its worth, I dont think the barrel system on that rifle is the reason it shot so well. Theres something to be said for those BIB flat-base bullets though IMO when it comes to pure accuracy. That record has been broken, multiple times over, with conventional barrel setups. All manners of these types of unusual barrel systems have been tested in 1000yd BR, shroud with tension, shroud with compression, shroud with neither tension nor compression, etc and despite all the tuning they all shot roughly round shaped groups with the winners usually being in the 3-4" for 10 shots on good days. Experimentation is good as thats how this stuff advances, but so far you really wont find a setup thats more accurate for 1Kyd 10 shot group/score than just a plain ~1.450" diameter or even up to 1.750" diameter barrel mounted/glued into a barrel block.
I realize a new small-group 10 shot record was set with a Light Gun by Jim Richards with his 6 Dasher using most likely a HV contour barrel(probably around ~.950" at muzzle):
Best 10-Shot, 1000-Yard Group in History ? Be Amazed « Daily Bulletin
And no doubt the Dashers and 6x47L`s/6.5x47L Light Guns shoot amazing; just as good and sometimes better than the Heavy Guns if you will, when conditions are right. As we all know though conditions are rarely perfect. And in MOST cases, what you`ll see is that the Heavy Guns outshoot the Light Guns, provided equal skill among the trigger pullers. And those winning Heavy Guns will, a huge majority of the time, be setup very similarly to Mr Matt Kline`s former record-holding rifle(ie ~1.450" x ~30" barrel set in a barrel block chambered in .300 WSM or 6 Dasher):
Matt Kline Shoots 2.815? Record at 1000 Yards with 300 WSM « Daily Bulletin
And those are pretty much the calibers to beat: .300 WSM for the windy days, 6 Dasher or 6x47L for the calm ones IMO. The .284 and 6.5-284 are certainly capable as well. I also think it warrants experimenting for someone to take some .308 Win Lapua PALMA small primer brass and neck it down to .260 Improved or 6.5 SLR or something similar. Not sure why no one has done it yet(aside from the brass prep hassle) but IMO a .260 Improved or 6.5 SLR with a small primer/small flash hole brass should be just as accurate/low SD/low ES as the 6BR/Dasher/x47L but with much better ballistics. Not to mention you would see way longer brass life, or the ability to push higher pressure/velocity than regular .260/.308 brass.
Anyway, all that is off-topic. I agree with the above, if youre shooting a bull barrel, or something along the lines of a light palma/Remington Varmint contour or bigger then it should have no problem pulling off a consistent 20-shot string. Again this will depend on the quality of the barrel though. When it gets too hot to hold your hand on it or atleast uncomfortable, thats when Id let it cool just for the sake of throat life unless in competition. You`ll notice a lot of the top BR shooters go through barrels like mad men just to find that one "hummer" as they are most definitely not all created equal.
If your barrel truly is walking as it heats up though, there may be something you want to try. Ive never had it done, but the guy with the 10-shot Light Gun record group I posted above, Mr Jim Richards, he swears by cryo-freezing all his barrels and apparently thats exactly what that treatment does; prevents the barrel from walking as it gets hot and Ive read its supposed to make it easier to machine as well. Hes not the only one Ive heard recommend it either. Anyway, Mr Jim Richard`s scores and records speak for themselves and he really swears by the cryo-freezing as a huge reason for his success; as I said his success speaks for itself so Id be inclined to take his word for it especially considering how cheap it is to have it done, $12.50 I believe correct me if Im wrong.
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Jp Rifles uses what they call a Thermal Disipator for their AR's. Same concept, different application. Not sure if it is their design or if they are using someone else's.
JP - Thermal Dissipator™
Never seen that before, thats pretty cool. Not overly priced either.
If you really truly have a barrel thats walking on you, as it heats up, Id seriously consider cryo-freezing it. Ive never heard anyone give so much credit to cryo-freezing for accuracy as Mr Jim Richards but like I said he swears by it and Im more than inclined to take his word for it. Its definitely not gonna hurt accuracy and its cheap as all hell compared to any other option. I definitely plan on doing it when I pick up a new rifle this fall and will report back.
Please post photos of the water-cooled bolt gun when the apparatus is completed
not sure where to find the article ,but about 12-14 years ago there was a group of guys that had water cooled varmint rifles for p-dog's
they had it all set up on a trailer with quick couplers and a cooling system,don't remember much about the article but the cooling set-up
stuck in my mind. if i had to take a guess it was in the magazine predator masters?
ive seen guys run C02 from 20oz paintball tanks and remote lines to spray down the inside of the bore...
or use denatured alcohol and pour it down...
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