Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

R

Ranger260

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Minuteman
Mar 23, 2010
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Northern AZ
#1
Not sure I am posting my question in the right part of the forum....

I was hoping you guys could help me find the price/performance "sweet spot" and help me narrow down some choices for ammo on my new rifle. I have perused this site and others for awhile. The more I read, the more I am overwhelmed by the choices. I would like to start examining the accuracy potential of this rifle, and would like to begin with some smart purchases on factory ammo (yes, I am one of those guys that needs to learn to reload). However, I do not want to throw money at the vendors haphazardly. I suppose I could load up on Black Hills, Hornady or Federal Match and that would be a safe place to start. But that stuff is expensive and I am hoping for some alternatives.

In the last year, I finally got around to putting together an AR-15 that I primarily intend to use for paper-punching (beyond 100 yards) and hunting (coyotes, jackrabbits, prairie dogs). Here are the specs on my rifle:
20" Rock River Varmint A4 upper, 1 in 8" twist SS barrel
Mohawk Lower
Magpul PRS stock
RR 2-stage trigger
Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44mm scope
Leupold Tactical rings
Harris bipod

With a firm grasp of the idea that I am the weakest link in this system, that every rifle and barrel are different, and that ammo varies from lot to lot...do you have any suggestions for some ammo I should try? BTW, I do have experience with the M16A2 platform and open sights. But I normally just shoot what is cheap or available with an eye for practical accuracy. I am new to precision/long-range shooting.

I was hoping to start out with a modest purchase of around $100 on factory ammo to see what my rifle likes before I make an investment in a larger quantity. Here are some ideas I was looking at:

Shoot for accuracy...
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/50rds-223-black-hills-68gr-heavy-matc h-hollow-point-ammo/cName/223-556-match-ammo

A cheaper alternative...
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP223HP75&name=Prvi+Partizan+.223+75grn+Ma tch+HP+20rd&groupid=21
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP223HP69&name=Prvi+.223+69grn+Boat+Tail+M atch+Hollow+Point+20rd+Box&groupid=21
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-223-prvi-partizan-75gr-bthp-mat ch-ammo/cName/223-556-match-ammo

For varmints...
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=312291

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
#2
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

From my personal experience, I have found that any FMJ bulk type ammo shoots the worst, as could be expected. After that, there are so many different variables that you really need to try each one in your rifle. Before you go online and buy a case, you really need to go and buy a box of each, and try them out. Some stuff to try out would be Federal, Hornady, Black Hills, etc.

When I first started shooting, I shot whatever I could find on sale, and wondered why I was getting crappy groups. When I started buying the expensive good stuff is when I finally started getting some good accuracy. Now that I reload, I can get the good stuff for at least 50% off retail, so save all your brass... best of luck!
 
#5
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

While its not black hills or FGMM, the Priv Partizans 75gr shoots well for me out to 300 and I have even run it in comps where the smallest group wasn't required. at that price point its really hard to beat
 
#7
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black Hills makes some great ammo... I'd try them first ! </div></div>

Bingo!

What he said.
 
#8
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

My 20" RRA ss Wylde chambered AR shoots 60gr vmax and 69gr SMK hand loads very well, but I'm sure anything along those lines including 68 & 75gr Hornady
And 77gr SMK's they're all going to shoot well especially if they're made by Black Hills! (if you can't make your own)
 
#9
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

WOW...lots of options...thanks guys! Sounds like Black Hills sets the standard here though for factory fodder. I am definitely gonna try some Prvi Partisan at the price it is going for. Palmetto looks like it has some good deals. I am interested in what Southwest Ammo is putting out too.

Any of you guys ever use ammo from HSM? There is a gun show tomorrow in Salt Lake City and they are usually there. I think they load Bergers too.
 
#11
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Bore longevity is finite. I don't think that firing a rifle for the purpose of incurring wear is a sensible act. Wearing in the operating system parts has some value, but it will occur in the normal course of events, regardless.

Going further, I believe that a shot, any shot, should be aimed with requisite care. Anything less is disrespectful of good machinery.

I think that FMJ bulk type ammo has a valid place in combat and combat training situations. Beyond that, it's not adequately consistent to warrant the bore wear or serious marksmanship effort its usage consumes.

This is not an elitist viewpoint. It is one that is based on frugal ethics and finite resources.

Greg
 
#13
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bfoosh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black Hills makes some great ammo... I'd try them first ! </div></div>

Bingo!

What he said. </div></div>

Agreed, my 1:8 BCM upper likes the 77gr variety.
 
#14
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Greg,
Point well taken. I have heard both viewpoints...some believe a barrel should be "broke in"...others feel that the barrel is ready to go right from the 1st shot. I know there are some serious shooters on this forum and that is why I came here. I have not jumped in with both feet yet...when that happens...I will not be asking the amateur questions...and will be making the investment, buying the "best" and reloading
wink.gif
 
#16
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Black Hills Blue Box. Can't go wrong in an AR. Price and accuracy.

I've shot HSM as well, but not for several years. It was good stuff as I recall. Probably more expensive than BH, if you're on a budget.
 
#17
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2clicks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI the instructions from RRA'S states their barrels need no break in (Wilson SS 1-8 TWIST)</div></div>

This is good to know...as I do not have a manual. Thanks!
 
#18
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

I was glad to hear that too They described their barrel finish down to xxx Micron (can't remember the exact number) a very smooth finish (lapped) so it didn't need breaking in as it was done at the factory and I was happy as heck cause all that messing around is time consuming.
I'm Very happy with my "Rock" I Modified almost every aspect of it. Started out as a A2 standard with the 1-8 SS Wylde Chamber 20". (I wanted the bayonet lug after the ban lifted kinda stupid now since It's no longer on it) I knew it was limited in it's accuracy with no free float tube so after 20 rounds I didn't shoot it for 6yrs. I almost got the coyote version but figured I should do something with this guy since he was just taking up room in the safe. It shoots great and I'm happy with it for my first AR modification.

Ace stock, VLTOR A4 Reciever, YHM Todd Jarret free float tube, RRA Varmint gas block, Sure Fire muzzle break,( Just in case Some day I can go supressed...) and Buriss 3x12 XTR. Lower receiver is still stock a Hogue grip is on the replacement list.


IMAG0475.jpg

IMAG0480.jpg
 
#19
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Handload, my friend. Handloading better assures success, in any venue, except certain, defense, police, and military applications. Get a chronograph to understand what's good, better, and, perhaps, best. Usually, best is allusive, so you substitute a handload that is best so far. The idea is perfection--low ES and SD at a velocity which is certain to get the proper bullet nose-on to the distance desired. With ammunition massaged to perfection, and a rifle which is not broken, not hitting where aimed is all about you not coming to an understanding for where the barrel needed to be pointed. One more thing, the chronograph is essential since you do not have the experience or capability to judge success from group size.
 
#20
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

No, the barrel is not ready to go from the get-go. For the most part, the important issuea are related to tool marks in the throat/leade area.

My point, however, is that after several boxes worth of ammo, the rifle doesn't behave any differently whether you used a breakin regimen or not.

I do my load development starting with the first rounds down the barrel. My first 10-20 shots are being used for pressure testing, to establish upper limits based on case indicators before I begin incremental accuracy load testing. IMHO there is no point in delaying such testing to perform any breakin, the breakin occurs anyway.

Greg
 
#21
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Break-in fire procedures does one thing only, and that is putting just as much wear as any other round through in your barrel.
Buy a bunch of ammo and shoot!
While you are at it, try Wolf 62-grain FMJs as well.
Cheap, they do leave more dirt in your rifle than some other brands of ammo, but in my Sabre Defence 18" 1-in-8 twist mid-length the average group is less than an inch at 100 yds off bags.

John - out
 
#22
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Here ya go straight off my Warranty card!!!!
Pay special notice to the "Attention Shooters!" paragraph. Sometimes people aren't making Sh.. up.... when you do get to Hand loading remember this too.

69 SMK
IMR 4895 23-23.5 grs (tweak to perfection)
winchester brass
winchester primer
2.260 oal


rra.jpg


 
#24
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Totally agree with this point of view and will go one more step. If you look at the link to SW ammo, they will also offer 223 rounds instead of 5.56. I would personlly buy mostly 223. Why burn out your barrel with hot loads? While it makes little sense to use cheap inaccurate surplus ammo in your rifle, practicing with a less than super hot load that is accurate makes a lot of sense in my view. YMMV.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bore longevity is finite. I don't think that firing a rifle for the purpose of incurring wear is a sensible act. Wearing in the operating system parts has some value, but it will occur in the normal course of events, regardless.

Going further, I believe that a shot, any shot, should be aimed with requisite care. Anything less is disrespectful of good machinery.

I think that FMJ bulk type ammo has a valid place in combat and combat training situations. Beyond that, it's not adequately consistent to warrant the bore wear or serious marksmanship effort its usage consumes.

This is not an elitist viewpoint. It is one that is based on frugal ethics and finite resources.

Greg </div></div>
 
#25
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

nice stick! I thought I was waiting around a long time on this project, not having shot it for almost a year...but 6 years! Thanks for the info. from the manual.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2clicks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was glad to hear that too They described their barrel finish down to xxx Micron (can't remember the exact number) a very smooth finish (lapped) so it didn't need breaking in as it was done at the factory and I was happy as heck cause all that messing around is time consuming.
I'm Very happy with my "Rock" I Modified almost every aspect of it. Started out as a A2 standard with the 1-8 SS Wylde Chamber 20". (I wanted the bayonet lug after the ban lifted kinda stupid now since It's no longer on it) I knew it was limited in it's accuracy with no free float tube so after 20 rounds I didn't shoot it for 6yrs. I almost got the coyote version but figured I should do something with this guy since he was just taking up room in the safe. It shoots great and I'm happy with it for my first AR modification.

Ace stock, VLTOR A4 Reciever, YHM Todd Jarret free float tube, RRA Varmint gas block, Sure Fire muzzle break,( Just in case Some day I can go supressed...) and Buriss 3x12 XTR. Lower receiver is still stock a Hogue grip is on the replacement list.


IMAG0475.jpg

IMAG0480.jpg
</div></div>
 
#26
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

10-4...thank you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the barrel is not ready to go from the get-go. For the most part, the important issuea are related to tool marks in the throat/leade area.

My point, however, is that after several boxes worth of ammo, the rifle doesn't behave any differently whether you used a breakin regimen or not.

I do my load development starting with the first rounds down the barrel. My first 10-20 shots are being used for pressure testing, to establish upper limits based on case indicators before I begin incremental accuracy load testing. IMHO there is no point in delaying such testing to perform any breakin, the breakin occurs anyway.

Greg</div></div>
 
#27
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

Thank you all for your input. Well I am always leery of ammo that one can find at a Gun Show. But I could not resist temptation when Bitterroot Valley Ammunition had ammo at $9 per box of 20. So I picked up some 69 gr Match HPBT, 75 gr Tactical, and 55 gr VMAX. Hopefully, I don't get burned on an impulse buy and my rifle likes some of their offerings. I gotta place an order with AIM Surplus for another project I am working on, so I may pick up some of the Prvi match ammo and try it out too. If none of that works, I guess I will try Black Hills. I need to start looking at a single-stage press for a future purchase. Any recommendations on quality kit here (Lee, RCBS)? Also, is there a good manual to learn how to get started in reloading? Now, if I can only get to the range!
 
#28
Re: Breaking in a new AR...Need AMMO

BTW,
Someone had sent me some links to a thread on a rifle that was setup nearly identical to mine. He tested over 60 different factory loads and posted his results. I thought this was very interesting and that it could help me set a benchmark for my rifle in selecting ammunition to test. I do however understand that my results may vary...
Range Report 1
Range Report 2
 
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