BREN gun semi-auto build...vintage sniper? 1.5 MOA groups. VIDEO UP!

[buffalowinter]

I've read in two different sources where the BREN was so accurate it was used as a sniper rifle for long range shots. There is a scene in the movie "The Siege of Jadotville", about the Irish UN peace keepers in the Congo, where a sniper is asked if he can make a shot at a long distance and he says "not with the Enfield, I'll need the BREN."

I'm building a semi-auto BREN from a brutally torch cut parts kit.

There are no semi-auto conversion kits available anymore so I am using an old Shotgun News article on converting a BREN to semi-auto. This involves milling my own striker and fabricating a telescoping recoil and striker rod. Below is a portion of the rear receiver that I have re-welded and the fabricated striker. It all fits together and the semi-auto modified trigger works as it should. I'm waiting for my tubing to arrive to make the telescoping recoil/striker assembly. Amazingly, I was able to put the cut receiver onto the frame, hold a magazine in, and get the action to actually load and cycle a dummy round.

Partially finished striker and welded rear receiver.

 

[Caihlen]

That is fucking cool.

 

[Triggered]

Buff, your wizardry always entertains me.

Gods speed on this one. Curious how she ends up shooting.

 

[Chief_Rick]

I enjoyed that movie.

Looking forward to your results with this project. You are indeed talented!

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

As a Brit, I'm equal parts heartbroken and jealous. Why would anyone do that to a rifle, and why can't we own them over here!

Good luck - that'll be a labour of love. Hope it works out for you!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Did you get my pix? Fixing flame cuts?

Sirhr

 

[coraxdefence]

That a purpose-built LMG would be more accurate than a bolt gun certainly seems illogical... but I guess there's only one way to find out! Kudos Sir!

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Great resurrection, Mister Winter. Sad that it needs to be done, (idiots abound) but GREAT to see it being 'brought-back-to-life'.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

That a purpose-built LMG would be more accurate than a bolt gun certainly seems illogical... but I guess there's only one way to find out! Kudos Sir!

Actually, they were incredibly accurate. In fact, too accurate for machine guns in some ways. Trying to use one for 'beating fire' was a bit of a waste of time as they would just all drop in the same couple of square feet!

The British had to train their gunners to fire 3 - 4 rounds and then move, fire another 3 -4 rounds. This was accomplished by having the gunners say "Fish and chips" when they pulled the trigger. Fish and chips. Fish and chips. Fish and chips... that gave you 3 3 - 4 round bursts!

Don't forget that by WW2, as well, a good part of their Enfields had been rode hard and put away wet since before WW1. And war production guns were really not built to pre-WW1 standards. But the time of Jadotville, in 1960 or so, the odds are that the Enfields being carried by an Irish regiment (never at the top of the supply food chain) were about as accurate as spitballs. While the Bren's had fast-change barrels and an infinite supply of new barrels still in MoD inventory (you can still buy new ones.)

So the Bren would VERY likely have been more accurate than an Enfield at that time.

The SMLE was, indeed, a fine rifle. But comparing an early example in perfect shape to what would have been 'left' in inventory by 1961... makes it utterly believable that the BREN would have been employed this way.

BTW, I have two Bren's. A Mk 1 and a Mk III. And they are, indeed, superbly accurate. A big challenge is the offset sights. Necessitated by the top-feed magazine. Makes 'kentucky windage' a serious first-class PITA! They are also so heavy that the recoil is pretty much absent. You simply stay on target. Not so with a brass-butt-plated SMLE! Those things smart!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

These are some pictures of my Bren's in process. Very bad torch cuts! I had to get parts of about 4 receivers to put together into two.

Jigs... interesting mill cuts. But got tiny, tiny joints for final welding.

They are seriously a labor of love!!!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Lange Carabine]

Actually, they were incredibly accurate. In fact, too accurate for machine guns in some ways. Trying to use one for 'beating fire' was a bit of a waste of time as they would just all drop in the same couple of square feet!

The British had to train their gunners to fire 3 - 4 rounds and then move, fire another 3 -4 rounds. This was accomplished by having the gunners say "Fish and chips" when they pulled the trigger. Fish and chips. Fish and chips. Fish and chips... that gave you 3 3 - 4 round bursts!

Don't forget that by WW2, as well, a good part of their Enfields had been rode hard and put away wet since before WW1. And war production guns were really not built to pre-WW1 standards. But the time of Jadotville, in 1960 or so, the odds are that the Enfields being carried by an Irish regiment (never at the top of the supply food chain) were about as accurate as spitballs. While the Bren's had fast-change barrels and an infinite supply of new barrels still in MoD inventory (you can still buy new ones.)

So the Bren would VERY likely have been more accurate than an Enfield at that time.

The SMLE was, indeed, a fine rifle. But comparing an early example in perfect shape to what would have been 'left' in inventory by 1961... makes it utterly believable that the BREN would have been employed this way.

BTW, I have two Bren's. A Mk 1 and a Mk III. And they are, indeed, superbly accurate. A big challenge is the offset sights. Necessitated by the top-feed magazine. Makes 'kentucky windage' a serious first-class PITA! They are also so heavy that the recoil is pretty much absent. You simply stay on target. Not so with a brass-butt-plated SMLE! Those things smart!

Cheers,

Sirhr

A well established but not widely known fact : the original design for what became the No. 32 telescopic sight used on the WWII era No.4 Mk. 1 T sniper rifle was as a straight line optical sight intended for the Mk.1 Bren, albeit not for sniping purposes per se.

 

[buffalowinter]

SirH, got your pics, thanks. Two great movies are "The Siege of Jadotville" and "Danger Close, The Battle of Long Tan" about the Australians in Vietnam

Siege of Jadotville Enfield sniper:

"Danger Close"

"I was only 19" ffrom Danger Close.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Had not heard of Danger Close.

Siege of Jadotville has been on my list for a while. I heard it is excellent.

Sirhr

 

[buffalowinter]

You can get "Danger Close, The Battle of Long Tan" on DVD pretty much anywhere. Highly recommend.

 

[TurdFerguson]

These are some pictures of my Bren's in process. Very bad torch cuts! I had to get parts of about 4 receivers to put together into two.

Jigs... interesting mill cuts. But got tiny, tiny joints for final welding.



View attachment 7494546View attachment 7494547
View attachment 7494548

They are seriously a labor of love!!!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Jesus, are you adopting? Is that a Cincinnati?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Jesus, are you adopting? Is that a Cincinnati?

Bridgeport....

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

It's a bit of a mess... but Ronnie approves!

Sirhr

 

[TheBigCountry]

I just have to ask where/how you gentlemen @buffalowinter and @sirhrmechanic learned to fabricate these? Truly amazing.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I cut my first chips in high school... unless you count wood chips. Then in elementary school.

that’s more than 45 years of making things.
After a while, you just look at stuff and know how to do it.

Sirhr

 

[coraxdefence]

Thanks for the knowledge bomb @sirhrmechanic ! Fascinating stuff. That's proper gunsmithing right there; I just fiddle with solidworks and then fail to find a vendor.

It's a bit of a mess... but Ronnie approves!

I was taught to be suspicious of too clean a workshop!

 

[buffalowinter]

I'll second the " After a while, you just look at stuff and know how to do it. " I've been hobby gunsmithing since I was 13, so pretty much 50 years. Understanding how the gun works is key to building and modification. If you understand how the gun works, then it is clear in your mind what you need to do to fix it, alter it, or change it. As far as the actual skill and knowledge of how to use the tools, i.e. lathe work, milling, bluing, Cerakoting, welding....it was all through books (now you tube), and just doing it...trial and error. To weld, buy a book, watch a video, buy a machine, read the instructions, and start welding stuff. Same for a lathe or milling machine. I actually began just using files and a bench top drill press that you clamped a 1/4" electric hand drill in. I barreled a .22 using a file. I learned stock making the same way. Also, the Army helped me a lot. I started as an Engineer Officer and learned everything from Civil Engineering to blowing stuff up. Then I volunteered and earned my Green Beret and spent the rest of my career in Special Forces...where you become a "Jack of all Trades and Master of None". I learned a little bit about everything in SF.

Making a stock for a Remington Keene from scratch without an original stock or plans to go on...just old photo's of the gun itself.

Almost finished gun (needed a metal forend cap) ...and I made the holster, knife sheath, and belt. It is a copy of the gun belt worn by Geronimo.

 

[Halfnutz]

When you weld the receiver back together, how do you handle heat treatment, or do you?
I'm of the assumption it will get shot once reassembled.

Always a plethora of amazing projects between @buffalowinter and @sirhrmechanic, Thanks for sharing.

 

[buffalowinter]

I don't worry about it. Straight blowback operation so all the energy is straight forward and straight back, nothing locks up, and once the empty round clears the receiver during extraction, there is no more force. The receiver just keeps all the parts from falling apart during cycling. I have seen where the receiver is baked in an oven to relieve the stress caused by welding., however, the temperature was so low I really don't see how that matters.

Also, test firing is conducted by securing the gun to a lead sled rifle rest and a very long string attached to the trigger. If it blows up, you just start over. My Nock volley gun did blow apart on about the 7th test round. Full power loads exerted such a torque that the joints holding the barrels together separated.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Had not heard of Danger Close.

Siege of Jadotville has been on my list for a while. I heard it is excellent.

Sirhr

I've seen it, thought it was good. Not all hollywood "polished" out........

 

[Athos300]

I never had the pleasure of using the Bren, but an ex UKSF friend of mine who served during the 80’s-early 90’s used to swear by it as the best weapons system he ever used. By then they were 7.62, but in terms of accuracy and reliability they were still a force multiplier given the other options. I can’t wait to see what you come up with. Great project and hats off to your engineering prowess.

 

[eicas]

“If it blows up, you just start over.”

Classic!

Thanks everyone. I always enjoy the history lessons here as well.

 

[M77]

I never had the pleasure of using the Bren, but an ex UKSF friend of mine who served during the 80’s-early 90’s used to swear by it as the best weapons system he ever used. By then they were 7.62, but in terms of accuracy and reliability they were still a force multiplier given the other options. I can’t wait to see what you come up with. Great project and hats off to your engineering prowess.

my dad highly rated the Bren back in 74..

 

[YF12A]

“If it blows up, you just start over.”

Classic!

Thanks everyone. I always enjoy the history lessons here as well.

Reminds me of what a former co-worker who had worked for, I think, Rocketdyne, said about what an unhappy rocket engine did; Catastrophic Disassembly!

 

[buffalowinter]

Well, I have encountered problems at every turn. First, my original receiver was cut right across the bridge, melting away about an inch of the upper receiver. So I had to find a new upper piece...which I did...at not inconsiderable expense. The good news was, the new section was carefully torch cut in non-critical areas. The bad news ... it was a .303 MKII. So, now I am going to a .303 MKII vs, a .308 L4. Now I learned about which parts interchange and which don't. Magazines...nope...good news is .303 mags are $7 each. Mag release and extractor had to be replaced, along with the bolt body. .303 barrels are cheap and abundant and it good condition, so no problem there. I bought a MKII buttstock just so I don't have a horrible Brenkenstein MKII/L4. I have mocked up the gun using the old stock as a proof of concept, because...the telescoping recoil and striker assembly became a no go. I couldn't source the right size tubing, plus I became a little concerned of the striker binding or not having enough force due to the spring sitting at the base of the striker and the firing pin at the top of the striker. I decided to put in a separate spring for the striker that sits above the recoil spring. Not very much room there and the stock sits at an angle to the receiver. I had to have the spring move at angle. I solved this by making the striker with a floating guide rod, much like the FAL bolt has a floating recoil spring. So after a lot of milling, drilling, cutting, filing, sanding etc. I had something that I could half way mock up. With the receiver still in three pieces I slid it all together on the frame rails. I put a piece of .308 primed brass in the bolt face, pushed all the pieces together and held the cartridge against the bolt face with a dowel...pulled the trigger...and POP! Striker worked fine. Now to weld the two final sections together.

Striker with floating guide rod

Mocked up

Striker and bolt. Striker spring on top, recoil guide rod running through a hole in the striker on the bottom.

 

[eicas]

That kinda made my brain hurt, but I read thru it several times and I’m better now. Thanks!

 

[Waorani]

Probably had a dozen or so Bren parts sets back when they were cheap/plentiful but sold them off thinking I was making a killing at $300-400 a pop. Like everything else, wish now I'd kept a couple. Ran across some new production (as in 20yrs ago new) walnut stocks/grips if anyone can use them. Don't remember any history. Just cover the cost of the ride.

 

[buffalowinter]

I can definitely us those! PM sent.

 

[Waorani]

I can definitely us those! PM sent.

They're yours!

 

[buffalowinter]

Cleaning up the welds between the rear and middle sections. Inside is cleaned up enough that it all function tests. Restrictor plates installed and all BATFE required mods made.

Last part of welding.

 

[buffalowinter]

Welding done. Inside cleaned up and gun function tests fine. Waiting for .303 bolt, mag catch and ejector. Now just cleaning up all the welds on the outside and polishing/prep for cerakote. Sand the stock/grip/carry handle and prep for oil finish.

 

[rgg_7]

Nice work!

Ron (Canada)

 

[softcock]

You can get "Danger Close, The Battle of Long Tan" on DVD pretty much anywhere. Highly recommend.

-
also it on Amazon Prime .
it is Most excellent. it is every bit as good of a watch as, 'we were solders' .

 

[Ranchhand]

Awesome project. Thanks for sharing.

 

[frankprstw]

Soooo cool!
Feeling the love!

 

[buffalowinter]

Waiting on bolt and magazine/ejector latch. Refinishing the wood and Cerakoting barrel, bipod, butt plate, and small small parts in a mix of graphite Black and Stainless. The receiver and frame will be a lighter mixture of Gray/Black Cerakote.
Cleaning up the receiver welds and prepping for Cerakote. Also working on picking up ancillary items like a Transit Chest (actually found one, right after I bought an SMLE Chest to convert), Magazine Chest with 12 mags, mag pouches, spare barrel, and other stuff.

Cleaning up receiver welds

Oil finish for wood

Cerakoting barrel

Bipod

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

Cleaning up the receiver welds and prepping for Cerakote. Also working on picking up ancillary items like a Transit Chest (actually found one, right after I bought an SMLE Chest to convert), Magazine Chest with 12 mags, mag pouches, spare barrel, and other stuff.

Amazing work! If I can be of assistance in getting you anything from the UK over to the US please just let me know!

 

[ArmedGinger]

I actually knew where a seal crate of Magazines for one of these were. It was in a guy's garage. Sadly they are highly illegal here in Canada so no idea what ever happened to them.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Amazing work! If I can be of assistance in getting you anything from the UK over to the US please just let me know!

Well now that you mention it... If you are offering some lend-lease back to America...

I am looking for two SMLE forends... just the section from the stock band forward to where the barrel screws in. About 8" under the action. Building a couple of DeLisle carbines.

Having real trouble finding stocks here that aren't butchered or sporterized. Or, apparently, made of solid gold.

You can see the circled section is what I need. SMLE. x2. The front can be cut off, so two would fit in a small box.

If used SMLE stocks are easy to come by over there... It's a need for sure!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sandwarrior]

I know it's a little late. I saw the "Siege of Jadotville" and can say it's well worth the watch. I saw a documentary on the battle of Long Tan. I'd love to see the movie.

Love the Bren builds!

 

[buffalowinter]

Completed barrel

Cerakoted receiver. The Cerakote really showed up some flaws. I'll have to do some more sanding/filing and spay it again. Not liking the color, think I'll just stick to graphite black with a little stainless.

My state of the art welding station and equipment.

 

[buffalowinter]

Re-Cerakoted in Graphite Black/Stainless steel. I like this better. Welds came out well and not very visible. Installed rear sight and magazine dustcover. Just need .303 bolt and mag release.

 

[Romeo458]

That is fucking cool.

This sums up my opinion also

 

[eicas]

Neat.

You got me enthused to dig a particular box out of the basement that’s been “project waiting” since the mid ‘90’s.

 

[sandwarrior]

So, I watched "Danger Close, The Battle of Long Tan" last night. Interesting that they barely showed any Brens in the movie except during the last credits. What they did show was a lot of M60 during the movie and that had me wondering if that was right. In the last credits they were showing actual footage of the Australians and there were a number of M60's in that footage. Again, Brens were minimal. Which, from what I had read, wasn't really the case.

Caveat: I may have missed Bren footage in the movie haven gotten up a few times to get stuff.

 

[buffalowinter]

Bolt came in mail today and I just finished altering it. Cerakote needs to cure over night but will test fire tomorrow.