Might be old news, but apparently the Brits are withdrawing all of their AW308s from service and replacing them with AR10s. AI must be pissed - apparently the Brits are keeping the AWSM338. I wonder if this means AI will start to drop their prices a bit to shift a few more rifles into the general market. That would be nice as we haven't seen a price break since the dollar strengthened against the British pound sometime back.
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Brit Army officially withdraws AW308s from service
- Thread starter sititunga
- Start date
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Have a link? I have a hard time believing they would replace a bolt action sniper rifle with a AR10. If anything, I can see them maybe replacing them with the .338, and supplementing teams with AR10's.
Have a link? I have a hard time believing they would replace a bolt action sniper rifle with a AR10. If anything, I can see them maybe replacing them with the .338, and supplementing teams with AR10's.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
I just heard it from a buddy of mine in Britain who's in the know. Apparently they are not going to be offering the surplus rifles to the civilian market but have plans to either gift them to friendly governments or destroy them. The Brits are keeping the AW338. The AR10s are being supplied by LMT. Seems a shame I'd much rather rely on the surgical precision of an AW308 out past 500 than an AR10.
I just heard it from a buddy of mine in Britain who's in the know. Apparently they are not going to be offering the surplus rifles to the civilian market but have plans to either gift them to friendly governments or destroy them. The Brits are keeping the AW338. The AR10s are being supplied by LMT. Seems a shame I'd much rather rely on the surgical precision of an AW308 out past 500 than an AR10.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
With the exception of some seriously old-school looking green L96A1's, I have not seen a picture of an AW in action for some time as most have been AWSM's. Also, I have heard much about the MWS being adopted by the Brits in a DMR role.
While I have no doubt the AW is being phased out to some degree for a more role-appropriate rifle, it seems way too soon for their official release.
With the exception of some seriously old-school looking green L96A1's, I have not seen a picture of an AW in action for some time as most have been AWSM's. Also, I have heard much about the MWS being adopted by the Brits in a DMR role.
While I have no doubt the AW is being phased out to some degree for a more role-appropriate rifle, it seems way too soon for their official release.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
I think Australia went this route some time ago.
I think Australia went this route some time ago.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
If they're going the AR10 route I think JP's new offering the LRP07 would be the way to go. For a gas gun it's meant to be a tack driver.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php
If they're going the AR10 route I think JP's new offering the LRP07 would be the way to go. For a gas gun it's meant to be a tack driver.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338
i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
A lighter weight option might be an AR15 in the 6.5 Grendel which would cover the range gap between the 556 and magnums, but that might be too much of a leap from the traditional.
A lighter weight option might be an AR15 in the 6.5 Grendel which would cover the range gap between the 556 and magnums, but that might be too much of a leap from the traditional.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
There is more and more armies going this way and it's very logical. The 7,62 round is simply to tired for that clumsy heavy rifle, when almost the same things can be done with the AR, plus the fact that the AR can do a whole lot of things that the 7,62 bolt gun cant.
In fact, the 7,62 was a mistake from day one, when they should have gone with something like 6,5-7mm and had the trajectory from a .300 but the recoil of a weak loaded 7,62.
Håkan
There is more and more armies going this way and it's very logical. The 7,62 round is simply to tired for that clumsy heavy rifle, when almost the same things can be done with the AR, plus the fact that the AR can do a whole lot of things that the 7,62 bolt gun cant.
In fact, the 7,62 was a mistake from day one, when they should have gone with something like 6,5-7mm and had the trajectory from a .300 but the recoil of a weak loaded 7,62.
Håkan
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Thought that they already went to 338LM with the AIAWSM system over the big sand box already. Agree with JRose that to switch from the AW to a gas system is difficult to believe.
Thought that they already went to 338LM with the AIAWSM system over the big sand box already. Agree with JRose that to switch from the AW to a gas system is difficult to believe.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
http://soldiersystems.net/2010/01/03/brits-to-field-new-sharpshooter-rifle/
Little info on the story.
There was a long thread on Lightfighter a while back as well.
http://soldiersystems.net/2010/01/03/brits-to-field-new-sharpshooter-rifle/
Little info on the story.
There was a long thread on Lightfighter a while back as well.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Here's a link talking about the AR10 I couldn't find anything in there about the AW though:
http://www.sniperinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775
Here's a link talking about the AR10 I couldn't find anything in there about the AW though:
http://www.sniperinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
As the article says they are replacing the L96 system & not the AW
As the article says they are replacing the L96 system & not the AW
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
LMT doesn't make the AR10.
The British are not adopting an AR10.
LMT doesn't make the AR10.
The British are not adopting an AR10.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT doesn't make the AR10. </div></div>
AR10 type rifle... Everyone knows that the AR10 is made by Armalite.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT doesn't make the AR10. </div></div>
AR10 type rifle... Everyone knows that the AR10 is made by Armalite.
G
Guest
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Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bonneville</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An L96 is not an AW308 & the 338 are awsm </div></div>
Not sure what you're trying to say, but
L96A1 is designation for the AI AW (7.62 NATO/.308)
L115A1 is designation for the AI AWSM (.338 LM)
While configurations have changed (I believe the L115A3 is the current issue if i'm not mistaken), the base designation are as listed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bonneville</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An L96 is not an AW308 & the 338 are awsm </div></div>
Not sure what you're trying to say, but
L96A1 is designation for the AI AW (7.62 NATO/.308)
L115A1 is designation for the AI AWSM (.338 LM)
While configurations have changed (I believe the L115A3 is the current issue if i'm not mistaken), the base designation are as listed
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Yep the L96 is 7.62 but an AW it is not.
The L96 is the first ACCURACY INTERNATIONAL rifle to enter service with the MOD.
It has several differences to the AW (7.62).
It has a different action,barrel,muzzle, chassis, trigger, safety mech.,scope mount,
bolt,shroud,bipod & stocksides to mention a few.
They are not the same animal.
Again the 338's are built as AWSM & the 308's are built as AW NOT L96.
Yep the L96 is 7.62 but an AW it is not.
The L96 is the first ACCURACY INTERNATIONAL rifle to enter service with the MOD.
It has several differences to the AW (7.62).
It has a different action,barrel,muzzle, chassis, trigger, safety mech.,scope mount,
bolt,shroud,bipod & stocksides to mention a few.
They are not the same animal.
Again the 338's are built as AWSM & the 308's are built as AW NOT L96.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Until it is official it's all speculation. Everybody on the internet seems to know everything. You ask five guys and get seven opinions. I have two friends that I trained with at the Cdn Intl Sniper Concentration(CISC), one from the Coldstream Guards and from the Royal Marines, both are currently instructors at their sniper school and I am sure a quick e-mail could confirm or deny this speculation.If they do adopt a .308 gas gun I would bet dollars to donuts it has nothing to do the with wpn system itself but the caliber.No different then the Cdn military who got rid of the C-3'S and adopted the 338lm as their primary sniper rifle. The 338 does everything and more that a .308 can do, even a 50 cal in alot of applications so why not. The theme of this thread seems to be that the UK is adopting a gas gun because the AI is insufficient, not true imho.
Until it is official it's all speculation. Everybody on the internet seems to know everything. You ask five guys and get seven opinions. I have two friends that I trained with at the Cdn Intl Sniper Concentration(CISC), one from the Coldstream Guards and from the Royal Marines, both are currently instructors at their sniper school and I am sure a quick e-mail could confirm or deny this speculation.If they do adopt a .308 gas gun I would bet dollars to donuts it has nothing to do the with wpn system itself but the caliber.No different then the Cdn military who got rid of the C-3'S and adopted the 338lm as their primary sniper rifle. The 338 does everything and more that a .308 can do, even a 50 cal in alot of applications so why not. The theme of this thread seems to be that the UK is adopting a gas gun because the AI is insufficient, not true imho.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/21/lmt-l129a1-lmt-308/
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/brit/l129a1-sharpshooter-e.html
Sharpshooter rifle (L129A1)
Sharpshooter Rifle L129A1
Lewis Machine & Tool's LM308MWS, was chosen by the MoD as a replacement[8] for the AI L96 used by designated marksmen/sharpshooters. The LMT LM308MWS (L129A1) competed against the FNH SCAR-17 (Mk17 Mod0) and the HK model 417.
The L129A1 7.62x51mm calibre, longer range (800m), semi-automatic rifle, will replace the bolt action Accuracy International L96 in the Sharpshooter role.[citation needed] A total of 440 Sharpshooter rifles have been bought as a £1.5m urgent operational requirement. It is the first new infantry combat rifle to be issued for more than 20 years.[9][10] The standard weapon sight is the ACOG with 400 of them on order.[11]
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/21/lmt-l129a1-lmt-308/
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/brit/l129a1-sharpshooter-e.html
Sharpshooter rifle (L129A1)
Sharpshooter Rifle L129A1
Lewis Machine & Tool's LM308MWS, was chosen by the MoD as a replacement[8] for the AI L96 used by designated marksmen/sharpshooters. The LMT LM308MWS (L129A1) competed against the FNH SCAR-17 (Mk17 Mod0) and the HK model 417.
The L129A1 7.62x51mm calibre, longer range (800m), semi-automatic rifle, will replace the bolt action Accuracy International L96 in the Sharpshooter role.[citation needed] A total of 440 Sharpshooter rifles have been bought as a £1.5m urgent operational requirement. It is the first new infantry combat rifle to be issued for more than 20 years.[9][10] The standard weapon sight is the ACOG with 400 of them on order.[11]
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
just in case there is some doubt
http://www.lewismachine.net/media/COMBAT%20ARMS%20L129A1.pdf
just in case there is some doubt
http://www.lewismachine.net/media/COMBAT%20ARMS%20L129A1.pdf
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they're going the AR10 route I think JPs new offering the LRP07 would be the way to go. For a gas gun it's meant to be a tack driver.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php
</div></div>
LOVE the JP rifles, but I'm not sure I'd take one into the sand with me. The JP might be head and tails more accurate at range, but I'd prefer the proven, standard AR10 design. Just add a custom barrel, and deploy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they're going the AR10 route I think JPs new offering the LRP07 would be the way to go. For a gas gun it's meant to be a tack driver.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php
</div></div>
LOVE the JP rifles, but I'm not sure I'd take one into the sand with me. The JP might be head and tails more accurate at range, but I'd prefer the proven, standard AR10 design. Just add a custom barrel, and deploy.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Screw all the talk on which is which and whose contract it is now, this is the important part:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Apparently they are not going to be offering the surplus rifles to the civilian market but have plans to either gift them to friendly governments <span style="font-weight: bold">or destroy them</span>. </div></div>
-and the baby jesus weeps......
Screw all the talk on which is which and whose contract it is now, this is the important part:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Apparently they are not going to be offering the surplus rifles to the civilian market but have plans to either gift them to friendly governments <span style="font-weight: bold">or destroy them</span>. </div></div>
-and the baby jesus weeps......
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
From what I've read about this the AW is not being retired just yet but the AWM is needed for long range in Afgan and the semi auto is being deployed in a sharp shooter role rather than a sniper role.
Can't see in this current climate the Goverment giveing anything away
From what I've read about this the AW is not being retired just yet but the AWM is needed for long range in Afgan and the semi auto is being deployed in a sharp shooter role rather than a sniper role.
Can't see in this current climate the Goverment giveing anything away
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wiganbear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've read about this the AW is not being retired just yet but the AWM is needed for long range in Afgan and the semi auto is being deployed in a sharp shooter role rather than a sniper role.
Can't see in this current climate the Goverment giveing anything away
</div></div>
I guess it might make sense financially given that the LMTs are substantially cheaper than the AWs and that the AWs in service currently have probably had the heck kicked out of them and are due for replacement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wiganbear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I've read about this the AW is not being retired just yet but the AWM is needed for long range in Afgan and the semi auto is being deployed in a sharp shooter role rather than a sniper role.
Can't see in this current climate the Goverment giveing anything away
</div></div>
I guess it might make sense financially given that the LMTs are substantially cheaper than the AWs and that the AWs in service currently have probably had the heck kicked out of them and are due for replacement.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolf22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/21/lmt-l129a1-lmt-308/
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/brit/l129a1-sharpshooter-e.html
Sharpshooter rifle (L129A1)
Sharpshooter Rifle L129A1
Lewis Machine & Tool's LM308MWS, was chosen by the MoD as a replacement[8] for the AI L96 used by designated marksmen/sharpshooters. The LMT LM308MWS (L129A1) competed against the FNH SCAR-17 (Mk17 Mod0) and the HK model 417.
The L129A1 7.62x51mm calibre, longer range (800m), semi-automatic rifle, will replace the bolt action Accuracy International L96 in the Sharpshooter role.[citation needed] A total of 440 Sharpshooter rifles have been bought as a £1.5m urgent operational requirement. It is the first new infantry combat rifle to be issued for more than 20 years.[9][10] The standard weapon sight is the ACOG with 400 of them on order.[11] </div></div>
Apparently the ACOGs are being swapped out for S&Bs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolf22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/21/lmt-l129a1-lmt-308/
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifles/brit/l129a1-sharpshooter-e.html
Sharpshooter rifle (L129A1)
Sharpshooter Rifle L129A1
Lewis Machine & Tool's LM308MWS, was chosen by the MoD as a replacement[8] for the AI L96 used by designated marksmen/sharpshooters. The LMT LM308MWS (L129A1) competed against the FNH SCAR-17 (Mk17 Mod0) and the HK model 417.
The L129A1 7.62x51mm calibre, longer range (800m), semi-automatic rifle, will replace the bolt action Accuracy International L96 in the Sharpshooter role.[citation needed] A total of 440 Sharpshooter rifles have been bought as a £1.5m urgent operational requirement. It is the first new infantry combat rifle to be issued for more than 20 years.[9][10] The standard weapon sight is the ACOG with 400 of them on order.[11] </div></div>
Apparently the ACOGs are being swapped out for S&Bs.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
If they are doing this, and that's a big IF, it's probably for the same reason why big army is moving or adding should I say the M110.
A lot of lessons were learned from fighting in the streets of Iraq and a system like a M110 is a bit more flexible than a bolt gun at the distance that one fight's in during a MOUT operations. Especially if you have to clear buildings, alleyways etc.. before getting to your FFP.
The British are learning the same lessons the US Army is learning, hence the possible shift in gear and TTP's.
Just my .2
R.
If they are doing this, and that's a big IF, it's probably for the same reason why big army is moving or adding should I say the M110.
A lot of lessons were learned from fighting in the streets of Iraq and a system like a M110 is a bit more flexible than a bolt gun at the distance that one fight's in during a MOUT operations. Especially if you have to clear buildings, alleyways etc.. before getting to your FFP.
The British are learning the same lessons the US Army is learning, hence the possible shift in gear and TTP's.
Just my .2
R.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
interesting that they are going with a 16" barrel vs an 18 or 20" for their sharpshooter role - but maybe they're thinking more urban areas and saving the bolt actions for the longer range work.
interesting that they are going with a 16" barrel vs an 18 or 20" for their sharpshooter role - but maybe they're thinking more urban areas and saving the bolt actions for the longer range work.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyrekzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">interesting that they are going with a 16" barrel vs an 18 or 20" for their sharpshooter role - but maybe they're thinking more urban areas and saving the bolt actions for the longer range work. </div></div>
With the right bullet and barrel the 16s are good to about 800 - 900 yds. The AWSM 338s will fill the role past that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyrekzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">interesting that they are going with a 16" barrel vs an 18 or 20" for their sharpshooter role - but maybe they're thinking more urban areas and saving the bolt actions for the longer range work. </div></div>
With the right bullet and barrel the 16s are good to about 800 - 900 yds. The AWSM 338s will fill the role past that.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
The L129A1 is not an AR10. It is instead a Stoner patterned 308 semi auto rifle. A full replacement with 400 rifles orderd by the MOD seems unlikely.
AR-10 currently utilize modified M-14 magazines.
Stoner patterned rifles utilize Stoner patterned magazines made by KAC, MagPul, DPMS, amongst others.
The L129A1 is currently designated as a "DM" rifle not a "sniper" rifle.
It would appear that they are just adding to their tool belt.
Pat
The L129A1 is not an AR10. It is instead a Stoner patterned 308 semi auto rifle. A full replacement with 400 rifles orderd by the MOD seems unlikely.
AR-10 currently utilize modified M-14 magazines.
Stoner patterned rifles utilize Stoner patterned magazines made by KAC, MagPul, DPMS, amongst others.
The L129A1 is currently designated as a "DM" rifle not a "sniper" rifle.
It would appear that they are just adding to their tool belt.
Pat
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolf22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just in case there is some doubt
http://www.lewismachine.net/media/COMBAT%20ARMS%20L129A1.pdf </div></div>
I thought back to that magazine when I first started reading the thread, I was hoping someone would post something up about it....if they didn't then I was going to!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolf22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just in case there is some doubt
http://www.lewismachine.net/media/COMBAT%20ARMS%20L129A1.pdf </div></div>
I thought back to that magazine when I first started reading the thread, I was hoping someone would post something up about it....if they didn't then I was going to!
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338 </div></div>
Exactly. Ammo cost isn't really an issue for the military, and once Big Army decided to let people upgrade to magnums, they haven't turned back. The M24s going to Afghanistan are largely being converted to .300 Win Mag (I know for a fact that 10th Mountain did this) since the rifle was built on a long action with this in mind.
The .308 has a lot to offer a beginner and is a great round to learn on, but at the ranges where a .308 is useful for the military, a semi auto will provide all the accuracy they need and will be a hell of a lot more useful in the event you have to use it up close. For a DMR, I think a .308 semi is about the best option available. Think Dragunov.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338 </div></div>
Exactly. Ammo cost isn't really an issue for the military, and once Big Army decided to let people upgrade to magnums, they haven't turned back. The M24s going to Afghanistan are largely being converted to .300 Win Mag (I know for a fact that 10th Mountain did this) since the rifle was built on a long action with this in mind.
The .308 has a lot to offer a beginner and is a great round to learn on, but at the ranges where a .308 is useful for the military, a semi auto will provide all the accuracy they need and will be a hell of a lot more useful in the event you have to use it up close. For a DMR, I think a .308 semi is about the best option available. Think Dragunov.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338 </div></div>
Exactly. Ammo cost isn't really an issue for the military, and once Big Army decided to let people upgrade to magnums, they haven't turned back. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The M24s going to Afghanistan are largely being converted to .300 Win Mag (I know for a fact that 10th Mountain did this) since the rifle was built on a long action with this in mind.</span></span>
</div></div>
this is a well believed story, but its not the case. The US Army intially had planned for the M24 to be chambered in 30-06, but due to the amount of ammo required for testing and then further training, the US Army didnt have the supply to do it. So they choose the 308Win.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338 </div></div>
Exactly. Ammo cost isn't really an issue for the military, and once Big Army decided to let people upgrade to magnums, they haven't turned back. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The M24s going to Afghanistan are largely being converted to .300 Win Mag (I know for a fact that 10th Mountain did this) since the rifle was built on a long action with this in mind.</span></span>
</div></div>
this is a well believed story, but its not the case. The US Army intially had planned for the M24 to be chambered in 30-06, but due to the amount of ammo required for testing and then further training, the US Army didnt have the supply to do it. So they choose the 308Win.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The L129A1 is currently designated as a "DM" rifle not a "sniper" rifle.
It would appear that they are just adding to their tool belt.
Pat </div></div>
Looks that way to me, too. Also, is the Acog good to 800m?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The L129A1 is currently designated as a "DM" rifle not a "sniper" rifle.
It would appear that they are just adding to their tool belt.
Pat </div></div>
Looks that way to me, too. Also, is the Acog good to 800m?
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HDC-Deadly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338 </div></div>
Exactly. Ammo cost isn't really an issue for the military, and once Big Army decided to let people upgrade to magnums, they haven't turned back. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The M24s going to Afghanistan are largely being converted to .300 Win Mag (I know for a fact that 10th Mountain did this) since the rifle was built on a long action with this in mind.</span></span>
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this is a well believed story, but its not the case. The US Army intially had planned for the M24 to be chambered in 30-06, but due to the amount of ammo required for testing and then further training, the US Army didnt have the supply to do it. So they choose the 308Win. </div></div>
Two reasons I don't think this is accurate: 1) the M24 was adopted in 1988, over 30 years after the 7.62 NATO was standardized and 2) I was told that the M24 was designed to be upgraded to .300 Win Mag when I toured the Remington factory in 2002. Regardless, I know that the .300 Win Mag upgrade has happened for many of the M24s currently in service in Afghanistan.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HDC-Deadly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i can completely see them doin that. a bolt 308 just doesn't have a place anymore in the military that can't be covered by a gas gun. if they are goin to carry bolt guns they might as well be a magnum round like a 300 or 338 </div></div>
Exactly. Ammo cost isn't really an issue for the military, and once Big Army decided to let people upgrade to magnums, they haven't turned back. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The M24s going to Afghanistan are largely being converted to .300 Win Mag (I know for a fact that 10th Mountain did this) since the rifle was built on a long action with this in mind.</span></span>
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this is a well believed story, but its not the case. The US Army intially had planned for the M24 to be chambered in 30-06, but due to the amount of ammo required for testing and then further training, the US Army didnt have the supply to do it. So they choose the 308Win. </div></div>
Two reasons I don't think this is accurate: 1) the M24 was adopted in 1988, over 30 years after the 7.62 NATO was standardized and 2) I was told that the M24 was designed to be upgraded to .300 Win Mag when I toured the Remington factory in 2002. Regardless, I know that the .300 Win Mag upgrade has happened for many of the M24s currently in service in Afghanistan.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWRichmond</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looks that way to me, too. Also, is the Acog good to 800m? </div></div>
You have to wonder if the people doing the buying in this case really knew their stuff given the scope choice. Apparently the Brits have now swapped the Acogs out for the S&Bs that were mounted on their AW308 bolt guns. I still can't understand why they didn't look at the 6.5 Grendel in the lighter AR15 platform given its capabilities at the ranges the 308 LMTs are going to be used at. I suppose the SA80s the Brits use are indicative of the type of questionable decision making that goes on there from time to time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWRichmond</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looks that way to me, too. Also, is the Acog good to 800m? </div></div>
You have to wonder if the people doing the buying in this case really knew their stuff given the scope choice. Apparently the Brits have now swapped the Acogs out for the S&Bs that were mounted on their AW308 bolt guns. I still can't understand why they didn't look at the 6.5 Grendel in the lighter AR15 platform given its capabilities at the ranges the 308 LMTs are going to be used at. I suppose the SA80s the Brits use are indicative of the type of questionable decision making that goes on there from time to time.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still can't understand why they didn't look at the 6.5 Grendel in the lighter AR15 platform given it's capabilities at the ranges the 308 LMTs are going to be used at. </div></div>
The 6.5 Grendel is not type cast caliber at this time. This is also the hold up on the .338LM.
The .338LM has been in type casting since 2005. Its 5 years later and its still not done.
The 300WM has been in service for 20years and it only have 2 rounds that have a type cast.
So thats why.
IT takes alot to bring in a new ammunition caliber to the military. The U.S. army has gotten away with .338LM due to england and there use. But its still not cleared 100%.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still can't understand why they didn't look at the 6.5 Grendel in the lighter AR15 platform given it's capabilities at the ranges the 308 LMTs are going to be used at. </div></div>
The 6.5 Grendel is not type cast caliber at this time. This is also the hold up on the .338LM.
The .338LM has been in type casting since 2005. Its 5 years later and its still not done.
The 300WM has been in service for 20years and it only have 2 rounds that have a type cast.
So thats why.
IT takes alot to bring in a new ammunition caliber to the military. The U.S. army has gotten away with .338LM due to england and there use. But its still not cleared 100%.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still can't understand why they didn't look at the 6.5 Grendel in the lighter AR15 platform given it's capabilities at the ranges the 308 LMTs are going to be used at. </div></div>
The 6.5 Grendel is not type cast caliber at this time. This is also the hold up on the .338LM.
The .338LM has been in type casting since 2005. Its 5 years later and its still not done.
The 300WM has been in service for 20years and it only have 2 rounds that have a type cast.
So thats why.
IT takes alot to bring in a new ammunition caliber to the military. The U.S. army has gotten away with .338LM due to england and there use. But its still not cleared 100%. </div></div>
No time like the present to start thinking outside the box, besides one of the Grendel's conceivers is a Brit, but the Brits probably don't even know that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still can't understand why they didn't look at the 6.5 Grendel in the lighter AR15 platform given it's capabilities at the ranges the 308 LMTs are going to be used at. </div></div>
The 6.5 Grendel is not type cast caliber at this time. This is also the hold up on the .338LM.
The .338LM has been in type casting since 2005. Its 5 years later and its still not done.
The 300WM has been in service for 20years and it only have 2 rounds that have a type cast.
So thats why.
IT takes alot to bring in a new ammunition caliber to the military. The U.S. army has gotten away with .338LM due to england and there use. But its still not cleared 100%. </div></div>
No time like the present to start thinking outside the box, besides one of the Grendel's conceivers is a Brit, but the Brits probably don't even know that.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
True,
but history has shown you change the manufacture of ammunition in peace time when you have the ability to gain stock piles of the new ammunition.
Its deeper then just saying "hell lets go with 6.5 or 6.8, ok johnny lets go"
This is how the ball rolls.
True,
but history has shown you change the manufacture of ammunition in peace time when you have the ability to gain stock piles of the new ammunition.
Its deeper then just saying "hell lets go with 6.5 or 6.8, ok johnny lets go"
This is how the ball rolls.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
But then again it's not like swapping out from the 556. The 308 is performing more and more in a niche role, the quantities required would be less for stockpiling and not such a big deal if they made a change.
But then again it's not like swapping out from the 556. The 308 is performing more and more in a niche role, the quantities required would be less for stockpiling and not such a big deal if they made a change.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
I had a rifle personally built by Malcolm Cooper in the early 80s for a certain well known shooter in my hands a few weeks ago. I don't care hold old the Brit rifles are or what letters and numbers are used to describe them - they are the same action design as the current AW, just like the one I had in my hands.
If you want an opinion on the rifle design, call Mac Tilton and ask his opinion.
I had a rifle personally built by Malcolm Cooper in the early 80s for a certain well known shooter in my hands a few weeks ago. I don't care hold old the Brit rifles are or what letters and numbers are used to describe them - they are the same action design as the current AW, just like the one I had in my hands.
If you want an opinion on the rifle design, call Mac Tilton and ask his opinion.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Sounds like the replacement of the old L96 (not the L96A1?) or inclusion of a new weapon at section or platoon level to me (like you have your Designated Marksman Rifle)?
The way the MoD is making budget cuts...I can't see them splashing out too much at the moment!!
They've got to save all their pocket money to buy some planes to put on the two aircraft carriers that we can't afford to cancel!
Sounds like the replacement of the old L96 (not the L96A1?) or inclusion of a new weapon at section or platoon level to me (like you have your Designated Marksman Rifle)?
The way the MoD is making budget cuts...I can't see them splashing out too much at the moment!!
They've got to save all their pocket money to buy some planes to put on the two aircraft carriers that we can't afford to cancel!
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a rifle personally built by Malcolm Cooper in the early 80s for a certain well known shooter in my hands a few weeks ago. I don't care hold old the Brit rifles are or what letters and numbers are used to describe them - they are the same action design as the current AW, just like the one I had in my hands.
If you want an opinion on the rifle design, call Mac Tilton and ask his opinion. </div></div>
I had the pleasure of meeting Malcolm Cooper on a couple of occasions - there's no question his rifles are icons.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a rifle personally built by Malcolm Cooper in the early 80s for a certain well known shooter in my hands a few weeks ago. I don't care hold old the Brit rifles are or what letters and numbers are used to describe them - they are the same action design as the current AW, just like the one I had in my hands.
If you want an opinion on the rifle design, call Mac Tilton and ask his opinion. </div></div>
I had the pleasure of meeting Malcolm Cooper on a couple of occasions - there's no question his rifles are icons.
Re: Brit Army officially withdraw AW308s from service
Britain retired the 7.62mm AI sniper rifle for the .338 Lapua Magnum.
Economy-minded, they passed the 7.62s down to platoon-level marksmen. While a good weapon, a soldier who is not sniper-qualified may not get the most out of a bolt action rifle. Squads and platoons lost a 5.56mm rifle where the rubber-meets-the-road.
The British adopted the LMT (L129A1) 7.62mm self-loader to regain semi-auto fire support at the squad. The 6X ACOG, standardized for the MAG-58 machinegun, was already in stock and put on the L129A1s.
The 7.62mm sniper rifles, now homeless, either go into reserve storage or wherever British military guns (i.e., the FAL/SLR) go to die.
Britain retired the 7.62mm AI sniper rifle for the .338 Lapua Magnum.
Economy-minded, they passed the 7.62s down to platoon-level marksmen. While a good weapon, a soldier who is not sniper-qualified may not get the most out of a bolt action rifle. Squads and platoons lost a 5.56mm rifle where the rubber-meets-the-road.
The British adopted the LMT (L129A1) 7.62mm self-loader to regain semi-auto fire support at the squad. The 6X ACOG, standardized for the MAG-58 machinegun, was already in stock and put on the L129A1s.
The 7.62mm sniper rifles, now homeless, either go into reserve storage or wherever British military guns (i.e., the FAL/SLR) go to die.
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