British Lend/Lease Garand opinion

[Bantam1]

Years ago I scored a L/L Garand made in Oct 41. It has all the British proofs and is 336xxx serial number range. The only problem is the original owner had sanded and lacquered the stock. The circle P proof is still present on the grip, but the side inspector stamps are gone. I have found reproduction stamps and places that offer the service to mark them. Do any of you think it is worth having the stamps applied? Or should I leave it alone.

The red paint is gone from the front of the handguard. I found a small speck of the paint on the inside from a run buried in a pore. Overall it is in really good condition all small part production numbers matching.

The only thing I did was strip the lacquer with some water based Jasco and an old CC. I refinished the stock in Linseed oil. It had been changed to the later style gas plug and cylinder. I was able to find the correct tube and plug for it and changed it to original style. The bad part is there is some rack number scratched into the receiver, barrel and I think the bolt if I remember correctly. It's been sitting in my safe for a long time now. I have shot it a few times but only with good ammunition and cleaned it. The throat and muzzle basically measure new. I doubt it was fired much while the Brits had it in WWII.

 

[Fig]

My feeling, sitting on a large collection of Colts, and looking at it from a collector's point of view is that it's already been modified, and it's never going to be an all original rifle again. I only preform regular maintenance to the ones I shoot, and do an inspect and a coat of Renaissance Wax on the ones I don't every few years. The ones that have been messed with are shooters, and the LNIB are gold coins/works of art.

So,
#1. Are you going to restore it for your own enjoyment?
#2. Are you restoring it to sell?
#3. Are you restoring it to try and sell it as a mint/all original rifle?

On #3 I'm certainly not accusing you of being a fraudster, but this is a constant and pernicious problem across the firearms collector community all the way from fake boxes (Fake Box Man) and fake paperwork to resto firearms sold as mint originals (often not by the fraudster restorer but by some unsuspecting person downstream).

#1. Go for it and enjoy that it's as original looking as you can make it.
#2. You might add money, but almost always not as much as whatever it is costs you. The possible exception to that is if you have it done by a Turnbull or another widely known and highly reputable restorer (there are a lot but I don't know the ones specific to a Garand) you can get your money out of it (no better than dollar in dollar out), but only if it's a Turnbull level guy. Just because it's great work doesn't mean a thing cash wise.

#3. nuff said

 

[Bantam1]

I am not trying to sell it, just attempt to restore it to original condition or as close as possible. I searched and searched for another stock but either they are way too expensive, or they are in terrible shape. I do not think the marks would add any value to the rifle. It's more for aesthetics. I have not seen a rifle that has had the stamps performed on the original stock. I did see a lot of reproduction stocks being stamped for make them correct, or so that is how I read it.

I understand it will never be original. I just recently found there were people doing the stamps and thought I would ask here because I trust it more than other places. I just don't like stuff that is half-ass. If it was going to look like shit, or just isn't worth it I will just skip it.

If I wanted to sell this rifle I could have the day I bought it. I had a Garand seller stop me at the show and offered me a lot of money for it. I paid $650, he offered me $3000. However, I do realize it has value for the collectors and will only go up in value over time. Maybe in my later years I could sell it since I have no kids and don't plan to have any. Or maybe I pass it along to my nephew when he is older. Either way I have no intentions of trying to make money off this thing. I've owned it for about 10 years now and have no idea what the current value is.

 

[Fig]

I don't know. There is a lot of speculation that as the Boomers start to die they demand for things like collector grade Garands and SAAs will start to drop precipitously. People who grew up in the 1950s watching westerns are becoming more and more rare, and I'm probably the last generation who watched:

The guys who carried a Garand and fired it in anger are dwindling fast.

 

[RTH1800]

Don’t bet on it going up. Likely worth less today than 10 years ago.
Entire gun world is in free fall with a few mostly military exceptions.

I remember Griffin and Howe engraved rifles selling for 60k that won’t bring 10k today.

 

[Bantam1]

I get it.

 

[Random Guy]

I suggest leaving it alone. If the rifle is original Lend-Lease and not pieced together, best to leave it as is.
It will hurt value to put stamps on what was once an early GHS stock. Collectors can tell from the clip latch cut and a number in the channel if the stock is correct era.

 

[TurdFerguson]

As long as it still has that bit of paint on it, its an easily verifiable lendlease gun. Its one of the few ways to get a non-pieced together correct WW2 garand. Even missing the cartouche, I'd love to have one. It'll hurt it some with the sanded stock/most of the paint removed, but at the end of the day, its still worth more than a "corrected" ww2 garand. Leave that beautiful girl alone and find ya hog to ride around on.

 

[Bantam1]

I'll take some pics over the weekend. It is not a pieced together rifle and it has not been re-parkerized. I'm not going to take the stock off but you can see the Brit proofs through the cocking rod channel.

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@Fig - but just like Saving Private Ryan made everyone want a Garand, and Lone Sruvivor made the Mk 12 clones super hot(even more so than they already were), I'd have to imagine more Westerns will be made which will cause spikes in sales of Win 73's, S&W top breaks, etc. The Democrats demanding gun control has only made it more difficult for them to get what they want since as soon as sh!t like that starts getting some pop in the media, people of all different demographics go out and panic buy, many of which I'd reckon weren't gun owners beforehand.

 

[IrishWind]

Cool find. I love guns with historical story attached.

Watching Westworld put the bug in me for a lever rifle and a single action revolver.

And a marathon watching of Band of Brothers coupled with a return from deployment bank account and it was off to the the CMP.

It would be worth another thread, but it would be interesting to see who admits to buying what due to TV/Movies/Video Games...

 

[Bantam1]

When I was looking for a Garand I just stumbled on the one I ended up with. I knew I wanted an early Springfield of a later IH just because they were different. I didn't want some cobbled together or shot out rifle. So I took my time and looked until I found what I wanted. I didn't realize it was a Brit LL until a guy stopped me when I was walking out of the gun show. I'm still looking for a decent 1903 Springfield. It's not a priority but if I find a good clean one for a good price I will probably buy it.

I like some of the older rifles. I have a nice Enfield No 4 Mk1 as well as the Garand. I always wanted one after shooting my late uncles CMP purchase back in the mid 90's. Enfields were cheap back then too. The local gun stores literally had piles of them for $25-50 each. My uncle, cousin and I were there for over an hour digging through to pick out the nicer ones. I have a nice 1954 Tula SKS that I bought around that time as well. Un-fired and I think I paid $180 for it? The good old days...

My uncle passed away years ago at 50 from cancer. He was the driving influence behind a lot of the firearms I like. I will always remember the times of stripping cosmoline with Diesel fuel (because he didn't know other methods, or because he was entertained by watching us struggle with cleaning everything). We did a lot of camping, hiking and shooting. He got my cousin and I to join the Civil Air Patrol when we were young. We got to do a lot of cool shit at 12-13 years old. I spent a week at Camp Pendleton hiking and flying in helicopters. We got to shoot SAW's and M16A2 rifles. We were watching them test the LAV's and got to go inside and check them out. Our PJ liaison happened to know the officer in charge of the testing. We played with Miles gear int he OG "Combat Town" at the base. I spent a week at Vandenberg AFB. Did a lot of cool stuff there. We helped on search and rescue stuff around the Los Angeles area when planes crashed or people went missing in the mountains. All of this because of my uncle.

He was a big part of my life and this is the way I can carry the torch for him. He was an intel type guy for the USAF and had to man a relay radio position in Pakistan for the U-2 and SR-71 pilots flying over the USSR to take pictures. It was him and a single guard. He had some very cool stories and pictures from his time. Later he went on to help write the GPS guided software for aircraft and "smart bombs". I watched videos of test drops of guided bombs going through windows and doors on mock up buildings. He had footage of GPS controlled Lear Jet testing in Switzerland flying low altitude going through mountains. This was years before stuff like this was on the news or other TV shows.

Movies and TV shows didn't influence me on the purchases. My uncle did. Firing the rifles at a younger age influenced my decisions. As I get older I find interest in other firearms and buy what I want because this is America. If that makes me a boomer at the ripe old age of 43 I guess I will wear that badge with honor.

 

[TurdFerguson]

@Fig - but just like Saving Private Ryan made everyone want a Garand, and Lone Sruvivor made the Mk 12 clones super hot(even more so than they already were), I'd have to imagine more Westerns will be made which will cause spikes in sales of Win 73's, S&W top breaks, etc. The Democrats demanding gun control has only made it more difficult for them to get what they want since as soon as sh!t like that starts getting some pop in the media, people of all different demographics go out and panic buy, many of which I'd reckon weren't gun owners beforehand.

Lol SPR ruined a lot of hobbies for a 12 year old. 29th, 101st ab and ranger lozenge patches went through the roof after that movie. That an every fixed bail helmet all of a sudden had ranger markings.

 

[Fig]

@Fig - but just like Saving Private Ryan made everyone want a Garand, and Lone Sruvivor made the Mk 12 clones super hot(even more so than they already were), I'd have to imagine more Westerns will be made which will cause spikes in sales of Win 73's, S&W top breaks, etc. The Democrats demanding gun control has only made it more difficult for them to get what they want since as soon as sh!t like that starts getting some pop in the media, people of all different demographics go out and panic buy, many of which I'd reckon weren't gun owners beforehand.

I’m the curator of five generations of gun collectors. My son will succeed me. I‘ve got the popular stuff and some rare stuff from the dawn of metallic cartridges. I like knowing what they’re worth even though I would never sell one. There are a couple of holes in the collection, but since I’ve gotten into tactical steel/PRS I’ve quit spending my money on the guns I’m missing, and am blowing money on cu

Cool find. I love guns with historical story attached.

Watching Westworld put the bug in me for a lever rifle and a single action revolver.

And a marathon watching of Band of Brothers coupled with a return from deployment bank account and it was off to the the CMP.

It would be worth another thread, but it would be interesting to see who admits to buying what due to TV/Movies/Video Games...

My kid is always coming to me and asking if we have this or that pistol or rifle that appears in a game he's playing. The answer is almost always, "Yes, wana shoot the real thing? ". Except yesterday he showed me some weird shotgun with a side charging pump, in Modern Warfare, I'd never seen or heard of... I told him the M3Super90 was better anyway.

@Fig - but just like Saving Private Ryan made everyone want a Garand, and Lone Sruvivor made the Mk 12 clones super hot(even more so than they already were), I'd have to imagine more Westerns will be made which will cause spikes in sales of Win 73's, S&W top breaks, etc. The Democrats demanding gun control has only made it more difficult for them to get what they want since as soon as sh!t like that starts getting some pop in the media, people of all different demographics go out and panic buy, many of which I'd reckon weren't gun owners beforehand.

This has definitely been true of Snake Guns. My dad collected Colts. When the prices went haywire I bought two new, OEM cylinders and doubles or triples of literally every wear part Colt made for my blue, 6" shooter. Between my dad an me it's probably had 10,000 cartridges through it, and it has only been to the smith once for being out of time years ago. He told me that the cylinder was getting worn and would have to be replaced at some point, but it's still going strong.

I think it's kind of a fad unless there really is something to the pistols, like the Colts. They went up and have never come down. Even a plain jane LNIB is going for $2500.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Re-stamped stocks are fakes, plain and simple. "Restored" guns are only worth the value of the parts, since they are not original either. It's when you blur the lines with a combination of fake and real parts that you make guns that eventually end up cheating a less experienced collector.

I have a totally original, mint perfect Lend Lease Garand, it is only missing the red paint. Whoever decided to use paint thinner to remove the red paint got paint thinner on the original black painted gas cylinder and it lost some finish, otherwise it is perfect. It still gets poo-poo'd by internet experts. Same goes for some of the other interesting guns in my collection. At this point more people see more fakes and "restorations" than actual guns and start to believe that that stuff is real. Just my opinion on the subject. But when you "restore" an original GI issued gun to it's perceived "original condition" you rob it's history.

The problem with building fake guns is that the guy you sell it too is going to pass it off as "all original" and cheat someone less knowledgeable. I've seen an original Winchester carbine that the only Winchester part was the rear 1/3rd of the rewelded receiver . An original Winchester Garand with the same issue. The owner got a deal of a lifetime from a local crook called "Dave's Guns". Both guns for $3K, Ol'Dave told him he needed to move them to raise cash. The guy refused to believe he was robbed and bought a table at the next gun show to try and peddle them for $3K each.

Find some nice color matched parts for the gas cylinder, gas plug and lock, clean the varnish off the stock and call it good. Write down what you know about the gun and what you did so that it has some history. That is what I do with mine.