British sniper ammunition

[mitchellchandler_au]

Hi all,
Just been reading the green meanie book and the bit about the ammunition got me thinking. I heard about the M118 and its history and ballistics but I have no idea about the british 7.62 ammo. There was something about a 155gr fmj type projectile but not much else. Does anyone have any info regarding british sniper ammunition?
Thanks for reading my long winded post.

 

[Bulletsmith]

I have a few rds of the 7.62 British sniper ammo. I believe it’s a 155gr. Lapua FMJ. I have not shot it thru my rifle to check the velocity. But I was told it’s good stuff.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Here's a link to some pretty good info on the different types of British ammunition used.

British Military Small Arms Ammo - 7.62mm NATO Ball & Short Range

The first British examples of the new 7.62mm NATO round were produced by ROF Radway Green in late 1953. These were unheadstamped with a purple primer annulus although it is possible that some were manufactured by ICI Kynoch. The second lot that were produced in late 1953 bore only the headstamp

sites.google.com

I also found this link from 2016 and while it's not specifically about the sniper ammunition, it does have some interesting references to their improved 7.62 ball round.

Penetration tech: BAE Systems' new ammo for Our Boys and Girls

Military kit firm's Radway Green factory tweaks its bullet designs

www.theregister.com

 

[Lowlight]

Look up the Lapua HPS Ammo...

170gr stuff, I have cases of it, super awesome ammo, was used in the AI

 

[tk427]

The 155 gn FMJ is and has been for an age the standard issue sniper ball round, historically the L2 round was batch selected - normally early in a production cycle - and annotated as Green Spot, and ear marked for snipers. All made at the ROF factory Radway Green

Circa 2003 (from memory) the L4x series came out and was again 155 fmj made by Radway Green. Some were sniper designated, others werefor a bettter description steel,core penetrators BUT not officially AP

Some units had access to Lapua 185 gn - factory ammo, from memory it was a Scenar or D46 projectile - this was found to be excellent for factory ammo. This came either in standard factory cartons or was repacked into steel ammo cans

 

[mitchellchandler_au]

Thanks guys for the replys

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Access to a Lapua 185 gr-Factory-Ammo, that sounds quite special... Some kind of surprise...
I hope, we have some pictures if this box, please ? Or the steelcase...

 

[camocorvette]

Prices on 303 brit are ridiculous currently. Been gearing up for a while on components. I've never seen the match ammo. But I've seen good accuracy out to 840 with 174 fmj. I'd love to find or recreate this match ammo.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Prices on 303 brit are ridiculous currently. Been gearing up for a while on components. I've never seen the match ammo. But I've seen good accuracy out to 840 with 174 fmj. I'd love to find or recreate this match ammo.

Which match ammo do you mean, please ?

And accuracy out to 840 with 174 fmj means ?

Recreate this match ammo - could you use perhaps Hornady Vintage Match ? For a while this ammo was available in some countries.. .

 

[camocorvette]

I experienced "Good" accuracy out to 840 yards. With Wolf Gold 174 Gr. FMJBT.

It was 12 shots and 2 hits, in 20-25 mph winds. The rest of the rounds danced around the E type target. That's with iron sights on a Mk. 5 No. 1 Jungle rifle. A bring back that my father owns.

I've got probably 200-300 of those Wolf Gold cases saved. I plan to reload those. I just need to buy dies for 303 british.

I guess just match ammo in general, none specifically. Quoted below is from the posted article above.

"Round 7.62mm Ball L42A1" is sniper/match ammunition made by RG. It uses a 155 grain (10.04 gram) bullet and used propellant from Muiden in Holland and caps from ROF Chorley
Round 7.62mm Ball L38A1" was made by RG only in 1997 and included "L38A1" in the headstamp.. It was sniper/match grade ammunition and had a 144 grain (9.33 gram) bullet. It was similar to the L2A2 "Green Spot" round but made to higher tolerances.
Round 7.62mm Ball L42A1" is sniper/match ammunition made by RG. It uses a 155 grain (10.04 gram) bullet and used propellant from Muiden in Holland and caps from ROF Chorley

I will likely try to mimic those loads.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

I experienced "Good" accuracy out to 840 yards. With Wolf Gold 174 Gr. FMJBT.

It was 12 shots and 2 hits, in 20-25 mph winds. The rest of the rounds danced around the E type target. That's with iron sights on a Mk. 5 No. 1 Jungle rifle. A bring back that my father owns.

I've got probably 200-300 of those Wolf Gold cases saved. I plan to reload those. I just need to buy dies for 303 british.

I guess just match ammo in general, none specifically. Quoted below is from the posted article above.

"Round 7.62mm Ball L42A1" is sniper/match ammunition made by RG. It uses a 155 grain (10.04 gram) bullet and used propellant from Muiden in Holland and caps from ROF Chorley
Round 7.62mm Ball L38A1" was made by RG only in 1997 and included "L38A1" in the headstamp.. It was sniper/match grade ammunition and had a 144 grain (9.33 gram) bullet. It was similar to the L2A2 "Green Spot" round but made to higher tolerances.
Round 7.62mm Ball L42A1" is sniper/match ammunition made by RG. It uses a 155 grain (10.04 gram) bullet and used propellant from Muiden in Holland and caps from ROF Chorley

I will likely try to mimic those loads.

Good accuracy: at 840 yards, with Wolf Gold 174 gr FMJ-BT, now I understand, thanks. With the No. 5 Jungle Rifle in this winds: Really impressive

Match ammo in general, okay.. . What about the ballistics of the 155 grain-ammo in 7,62, for example L42 A1 or the L44 A1 ?..

This is an truly interesting page with this L-Ammo-Info.. .

 

[camocorvette]

I think the 155 would be a good start. From my understanding you don't want to push pressures in the enfield action. Because of how it is designed you can shear the lugs off the bolt with to much pressure. I might be wrong..

I plan on getting a no4 and cutting it down to look like a no5 jungle rifle. Most likely go with a new barrel so the chamber isn't so oversized to save the brass life.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

A good start within the different bullet-weights , you mean ?.. Before we take for example an 168-grainer... Yes, Pressure is always a delicate subject by older rifle-models..

It seems that the british sniper ammo for the L42 1 Enfield and "relatives"was either an L2 A2 144 gr"Green Spot"or L42 A1 155 gr-Round ? According to the Riflechair-Video at Youtube, found earlier..

An interestig project you have

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

In Major Frederick Myatts Book Modern Small Arms there is for the L42 A1 a Muzzle velocity of 838 m/s or 2749 f/s mentioned. I just remembered.. Without Info to the ammo used, unfortunately.. .

This Mv fits better with a 155 gr-than a 144-146 gr-round, or not ? Considering the long barrels of the L42 A1.

 

[Bulletsmith]

Anyone seen this ammo ?

 

[tk427]

I think the 155 would be a good start. From my understanding you don't want to push pressures in the enfield action. Because of how it is designed you can shear the lugs off the bolt with to much pressure. I might be wrong..

I plan on getting a no4 and cutting it down to look like a no5 jungle rifle. Most likely go with a new barrel so the chamber isn't so oversized to save the brass life.

Circling back around. I'm now where near an expert but as I was taught, if you have an L42 or L39 (enforcer) action built for 7.62 you are okay for the range of .308 / 7.62 ammo upto 185 grain.

If you have rebarreled No4 or similar .303 British action DO NOT exceed 155 grain
This maybe UK "wives tales" but I recall Bisley banning."modern" 155 + ammo in rebarrelled .303 actions

Cheers all

 

[tk427]

Anyone seen this ammo ? View attachment 7822229

Okay from both memory and the batch manufacturing date this is .338 300 Grain, it designed for the AI AWM L115A3 rifle. Basically a AI AW Magnum but is over pressure, just like the US MK248Mod1 round barrel wear and ability to reload are no concern. They started with a 250 grain round but pushed pressure and went to a 300 so I would - and I'm not a gunsmith - not shoot this outside of a AI Magnum.action / barrel or similar spec action

There's a chance - im running from pure memory and 8 years retired - it could be 250, so maybe pull a bullet and weigh it, happy to hear your feedback

Cheers

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

I’ve asked a mate of mine who should know!

 

[tk427]

I’ve asked a mate of mine who should know!

"Mate of mine" always infers UK based, makes me happy as a retired British Army bloke

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

"Mate of mine" always infers UK based, makes me happy as a retired British Army bloke

That we are! He’s confirmed I t’s 252gr RUAG Swiss P FMJ ammunition, the same as seen here - https://www.theshootingedge.com/cproduct/2701/*338lm-swiss-p-ball-252gr

Thanks for your service. Only slightly jealous you’ve made it over to the US!

 

[Bulletsmith]

Okay from both memory and the batch manufacturing date this is .338 300 Grain, it designed for the AI AWM L115A3 rifle. Basically a AI AW Magnum but is over pressure, just like the US MK248Mod1 round barrel wear and ability to reload are no concern. They started with a 250 grain round but pushed pressure and went to a 300 so I would - and I'm not a gunsmith - not shoot this outside of a AI Magnum.action / barrel or similar spec action

There's a chance - im running from pure memory and 8 years retired - it could be 250, so maybe pull a bullet and weigh it, happy to hear your feedback

Cheers

Ok pulled one of the projos and it’s 250gr. With 87gr of powder.

 

[tk427]

Glad you know for sure. I was really surprised the 250's were made that late, I'm intrigued, but that's still a great - if not more usable - bullet than the 300.

 

[Bulletsmith]

Yes I prefer the 250’s and 285’s over the 300’s.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Is there any experience with the Hornady 155 gr BTHP-Match, the GGG 155 gr-Match, maybe ?

Because the first one should be milder charged than other and the GGG seems to be in use in UK.. .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Just experience with the GGG 155 gr Match with all the different TR rifle types would be instructive, right ? Especially their muzzle-velocities.. .

Experience, gained since 2015... .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The 155 gn FMJ is and has been for an age the standard issue sniper ball round, historically the L2 round was batch selected - normally early in a production cycle - and annotated as Green Spot, and ear marked for snipers. All made at the ROF factory Radway Green

Circa 2003 (from memory) the L4x series came out and was again 155 fmj made by Radway Green. Some were sniper designated, others werefor a bettter description steel,core penetrators BUT not officially AP

Some units had access to Lapua 185 gn - factory ammo, from memory it was a Scenar or D46 projectile - this was found to be excellent for factory ammo. This came either in standard factory cartons or was repacked into steel ammo cans

Could that have been this ammo, perhaps ? Found on the Web recently... .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

What about this 155 gr Match ammo here from GGG ? Any relation with Army-Ammo ?...

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Any ideas concerning this two kinds of ammo above, please ?

 

[clubsportmark]

What is it you would like to know?

I don’t believe the above pictured ammo from GGG is MOD ammo. GGG make a NATO spec 147gr FMJ round.

The 155gr match ammo has crimped but not sealed primers. It is excellent ammo and have provided 1/2 MOA groups or below in any .308 / 7.62mm I’ve shot with it. Just I don’t believe it U.K. sniper issue ammo.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

This 155 gr GGG-Ammo is not an Sniper issue-Ammo, you mean ? Probably not, yes. Quite different boxes, this points already in this direction. So its no addition or replacement to MOD-L42 A1-Ammo. But has somebody used this ammo privately, for example in a earlier Sniper-Rifle L42 A1 ?
This 155 gr match-ammo shoots so outstanding in which rifle-types, then, please ?

An this heavy 185 gr-Lapua Sniper-Ammo above: asking you and especially but not alone tk427: where was this ammo used ? In which rifle ?

Many thanks to all of you

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Oh.. Ballpowder... Thats surprising.. Hmm.. Which rifle models did he use with the 155 gr GGG, please, Xmount ?

 

[tk427]

Could that have been this ammo, perhaps ? Found on the Web recently... .

Yup, and the 19927-01 is a UK ADAC, it's an in service identification code, same as a US DODIC

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Yup, and the 19927-01 is a UK ADAC, it's an in service identification code, same as a US DODIC

Thanks.. Interesting... Ok.

And all this rest beside 19927-01 means ? I suppose it' some kind of a code, too... But what for ?

And the bullet is so heavy, in contrast to the rest of the British Sniping-Ammo.. ?!

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Was möchten Sie wissen?

Ich glaube nicht, dass die oben abgebildete Munition von GGG MOD-Munition ist. GGG macht eine NATO-Spezifikation 147gr FMJ-Patrone.

Die 155-Gramm-Matchmunition hat gecrimpte, aber nicht versiegelte Zündhütchen. Es ist eine ausgezeichnete Munition und hat 1/2 MOA-Gruppen oder weniger in allen .308 / 7,62 mm, die ich damit geschossen habe, bereitgestellt. Ich glaube nur nicht, dass britische Scharfschützen Munition herausgeben.

Ich frage mich immer noch, wo diese Lapua 185 gr Sniper-Round verwendet wurde - in welchem Gewehrtyp? ...

Perhaps any ballistics ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

What is it you would like to know?

I don’t believe the above pictured ammo from GGG is MOD ammo. GGG make a NATO spec 147gr FMJ round.

The 155gr match ammo has crimped but not sealed primers. It is excellent ammo and have provided 1/2 MOA groups or below in any .308 / 7.62mm I’ve shot with it. Just I don’t believe it U.K. sniper issue ammo.

Which rifle(s) did you shoot with the GGG 155-Match then ? Which barrel length and muzzle velocities, please ?

 

[JerkyFreak]

From what I can recall, the GGG 155gr ammo have been used as issued ammunition for the Imperial Meeting at Bisley for "Target Rifle". Someone mentioned that they are loaded with Sierra 2155 bullets. Velocity of around 2950 fps in 30" barrels. Used for shooting 300 to 1000 yards.

 

[clubsportmark]

Which rifle(s) did you shoot with the GGG 155-Match then ? Which barrel length and muzzle velocities, please ?

Accuracy International.

20” barrel approx 2750fps

16” barrel approx 2630fps

Fairly temp sensitive powder used. So lost & gained 50fps in cold / hot.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

From what I can recall, the GGG 155gr ammo have been used as issued ammunition for the Imperial Meeting at Bisley for "Target Rifle". Someone mentioned that they are loaded with Sierra 2155 bullets. Velocity of around 2950 fps in 30" barrels. Used for shooting 300 to 1000 yards.

Yes, the GGG "Imperial Match" with her MV of nominal 855 m/s or 2805 f/s. And this older Sierra 155 gr HPBT-Bullet 2155 which the NRA prefers.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Accuracy International.

20” barrel approx 2750fps

16” barrel approx 2630fps

Fairly temp sensitive powder used. So lost & gained 50fps in cold / hot.

Yes... The 2750 f/s or 838 m/s mean the MV has dropped, quote a bit... .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

And she is preparing for the sniper course, already...
Not ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Accuracy International.

20” barrel approx 2750fps

16” barrel approx 2630fps

Fairly temp sensitive powder used. So lost & gained 50fps in cold / hot.

Which powder-type then ?