Brno ?

[okiefired]

Not sure where to ask this so Mod...please move if it should be.

I've found a BRNO .243 w/ mannlicher stock at a local gun shop in really nice shape. I'm a CZ fan but no expert so I know of thier relation....kinda. This rifle is of corse mauser actioned and seems to be very good quality. I just got a glimpse at it today and didnt get to see any of the markings but my pard said it had VZ24 on the reciever. From what I saw in a short time, fit was very good as was blueing and wood. Now I know what a VZ24 is and I've never seen any that weren't military mausers. So I guess my ? is...were there any BRNO made civi sporters chambered in this round with a mannlicher stock or is this a custom made from an old VZ24 reciever? The only thing I found online that is anything similar is an add from a Cabella's gun library somewhere that sounds like the same gun but I could not get a pic to come up so I'm not sure about it either, it was priced on sale for $1299 I think so I figured from that that the factory must have offered this rifle. Can any of you CZ/BRNO guys give me any info on this, it'd be much appreciated. TIA.

okie

 

[Joop]

My first instinct on this one would be to say that it's a conversion of a military rifle and that Brno wouldn't have kept the Vz markings for a factory built, commercial sporter. However, the more I thought about it, I wasn't so sure. I know that they went into military exports and commercial work, not long after the war ended. So, it's hard to say. However, I have pulsed a few friends that may know the answer and I would also suggest trying the military mauser forum at Gunboards. There are a few guys there that know Brno/CZ, backward and forward. I'll be interested to hear the answer, too, as the Vz. is probably my all around favorite Mauser.

John

 

[Joop]

Here's an answer from one of my friends. Nothing definitive, but he's got more experience in these rifles than I do, as he spent a lot of time in Europe and was shooting these types of rifles, before I was even born.

"Here is my take on this, and what I know of BRNO. I have a postwar commercial BRNO hunting rifle in .30-06, and these were all built on postwar commercial BRNO actions, designated ZZK or ZKK, dependent upon caliber. The actions are close to Paul Mauser buuuuttt not the same. Not the military Mauser action and not the CZ of today. The bolt on the BRNO commercial comes apart very differently, and the action bridge has a pop-up spring-loaded diopter sight milled into it. Very clever. This is in addition to the standard Kimme und Korn. The trigger is a straight bar with a French set. The rifle is very accurate, and the Krauts put it into a horrendous piece of wood. I still have the catalogues from 1969 - 74 and will check to see whether the BRNO was offered in a full length stock. My gut feeling is that it was not. BRNO also made some funky-looking shotguns that shot very well but never caught on with the European hunting crowd.
So in summary I would agree with your suspicions: this .243 BRNO was built on a military action by a civilian smith. My rifle was not imported into the States."

Hope this helps, but still would love to hear anything else you can find.

John

 

[okiefired]

Thanks Joop but this is not an old rifle. Got a good look at it today (since I bought it ) and its a Model 98. Havn't tried to find the year of its make yet but I'm betting its no older than the 80's and maybe newer. Like I said, fit and finish are great w/ nice wood and a beutiful single set trigger that the shop didn't know it had. I'll be givin it a try by the weekend. I knew someone here would try and help. I'll take any info you have and thanks again.

okie

 

[Joop]

Would love to see pics!

So, it's not marked as a Vz.24?

 

[okiefired]

Yes. on reciever on the left side right next to the bolt it says: "CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA, A.S, BRNO".... and directly under that..."VZ.24". On the right side of the reciever just behind the barrel it says "Model 98". On the barrel on the left side just in front of the reciever it has "98" and the makers mark that seems to be on most Chech rifles and "243 W". then, moveing on to the reciever, the serial # (cXXXXX) and makers mark again and again the "98". Also, on the right side of the barrel, just in front of the reciever (and the "model 98" stamp) it has "EURO-IMP EC CA, which I assume is the importers stamp and is stamped differently than all the other markings. Again, I'm sure this is a late model rifle and no collector but I really like it and hope it shoots well.

okie

 

[Joop]

Without pictures, it's hard to say exactly what it is. My gut feeling is that it's a Vz.24 that was sporterized after it's importation. The "Model 98" that seems to be all over it would most likely have been done by the importer, or the smith that did the work. Being that it's marked as a Vz, it was originally made from the 1920's to probably 1945. Also, when you say the "maker's mark", what exactly does it look like?

 

[okiefired]

No, I'm sure its a factory rifle. "Model 98" is only in one spot on the reciever, thats it. Also on top of the barrel mid way it says "BRNO ARMS" THEN THE "Z" with three rings around it and then "CZECH REPUBLIC". That three ring surrounded Z is also on the buttplate. Like I said, the importers stamp is the only one that is different, all the rest were done before blueing and are exactly the same. I've seen two pics online of a rifle just like it, with the same stampings, but in different chambering but no real info. I've seen this same mannlicher stock on several BRNO and CZ rifles. Never posted pics here (I know thats hard to believe since I've been here for 10+ yrs) but I'll see bout that. Thanks.

okie

 

[okiefired]

Oh, and I guess I should have called it a proof mark instead of makers mark (sorry, I'm a fan of thier bourbon) but its hard to see. It looks like some sort of standing eagle or some bird in between vertical lines, hard to make out and the whole thing is less than a quarter inch square.

okie

 

[Joop]

Wow. That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought that a more modern factory sporter would have been built off of a WW2 or older action. I guess stranger things have happened, though.

 

[okiefired]

There are lots of "modern" mauser actions besides BRNO (winchester, cz, springfield, etc.....all mauser actions today...which btw is an action developed in the late 1800's, not WWII). BRNO always used mauser style actions and as far as i know designated most of them "vz24" until cz shut the factory down in 2004....maybe i'm wrong. If so, hopefully someone will line me out.

 

[okiefired]

This helps clear things up. What I thought was a Z in three rings is actually a Z in a rifle bore...the BRNO tademark (on the barrel and the buttplate of my rifle). The "EURO-IMP EC CA" stamp is as I suspected the importer stamp; Euro Imports- El Cajon CA which stoped importing them in 2001.

Blue Book of Gun Values - BRNO ARMS (ZBROJOVKA BRNO)

 

[Badgerord]

I was the General manager at CZ-USA for a number of years and have been to the factory and have a pretty good working knowledge of CZ's from post war to now.

A few pics would go a long way to getting to the bottom of your rifle.

 

[okiefired]

Thanks Badgerord, I just saw your post. I'll try and see what I can do with the pics in the next few days.

okie