Range Report Broken tips on Hornady 6.5 140 ELDMs

[m1match]

Anybody else see this issue? I've shot almost 5000 Hornady 140 ELDMs since 2017 and until this month have never seen this before. A couple of weeks ago I was shooting a match and had a round go way low at 600 yds that was not due to me making a bad shot. This picture is of three broken bullet tips out of 500 reloads that I just did. I loaded the rounds on my Dillon 550 and then cleaned in a Dillon Vibratory case cleaner for 10 minutes to remove the case lube, so the broken tips happened in the case cleaner. I'm guessing a broken tip like this could affect bullet BC enough to cause a miss at 600

 

[ditter]

that must be a hell of a case cleaner.
I've dropped some loaded rounds on concrete, but have never had the tips break like that. Maybe just a little bend.

 

[Rio2019]

I shoot the Hornady ELD-M 140 rounds and I have never seen this “malfunction”. As a matter of fact I have never seen this issue with any load or manufacture. It sounds like you haven’t experienced this issue either. Is that case cleaner particularly corrosive? I’m sure that Hornady would like to see the damage, and maybe offer their take on why it happened. Please keep us updated with what you discover.

 

[jpcowboy]

I have seen it, i had a 2000 count lot last year and had numerous broken tips, you can call in to tech at hornady and tell them and they will make it right.

 

[Mk32784]

I remember that miss and yelling to check your dope lol.

As annoying as it is on my Dillon setup, I have a sizing tool head that I run all of the brass through to size it. Then tumble, and then another tool head for primer+powder + seating. So I don't have to tumble a loaded around.

 

[stello1001]

I shoot the Hornady ELD-M 140 rounds and I have never seen this “malfunction”. As a matter of fact I have never seen this issue with any load or manufacture. It sounds like you haven’t experienced this issue either. Is that case cleaner particularly corrosive? I’m sure that Hornady would like to see the damage, and maybe offer their take on why it happened. Please keep us updated with what you discover.

Hornady will probably blame it on the barrel...

 

[m1match]

It's a run of the mill Dillon Vibratory case cleaner with ground walnut media so it isn't very rough on the brass or loaded rounds. The week after the match, I also had a bullet tip break when I was chambering the round in a Nucleus. Near as I can tell, the tip broke when it hit the feed ramp. All these bullets came from a 2000 bulk bullet case bought from Brownells. The first 3000 ELDM's that I bought didn't have any issues. I'm about halfway through this case of bullets and the only thing different is I'm shooting in 90-100 degree temps instead of winter temps.

 

[Spblademaker]

Well, it’s just the tip.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I'm not sure I would completely trust any tipped bullet that was shipped in bulk and traveled through several conveyor belt sorting systems before being thrown on a truck for delivery. The trip from Hornady to the supplier was on a pallet.

 

[hic28]

I had a tip break off a 140gr eldm and get stuck between the breach and the lugs so I couldn’t close the bolt. This was at the Gunwerks NRL match 2 years ago. Luckily I had some Q-tips and could pick it out after the stage.

yet another reason to shoot Bergers.

 

[eastexsteve]

From the photo, it appears they all broke off at the same height.

 

[Ledzep]

Probably hit the swage die a little tight. Grab a few and push the tip sideways against a table top. Call Hornady Tech support.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I had the tip break off of an 80gr eldm in .224 today. Shooting a .224 valkyrie and the tip broke off during loading, probably when it hit the feed ramp. Bolt wouldn't lock up. Cleared it, didn't have any more trouble. 1 out of the 50 in the box.

 

[TheOE800]

They just reverted to amax spec

 

[Precision Underground]

I had the tip break off of an 80gr eldm in .224 today. Shooting a .224 valkyrie and the tip broke off during loading, probably when it hit the feed ramp. Bolt wouldn't lock up. Cleared it, didn't have any more trouble. 1 out of the 50 in the box.

After much head banging against the wall I finally figured out our Valkyrie was breaking 88eld tips when chambering. The tip would catch the front of the chamber randomly and break off. It seems like the geometry of the receiver/extension just didn’t work with that length bullet. Rather than trying to fix it I switched to 90 smks and luckily they shot little holes so I went with it.

 

[TRG65]

I’ve broken 1 tip like that in about 4K if the 147s. That was from dropping it into the concrete. About 6 years ago I had a couple boxes of nosler 338 accubonds where the tips would fall out. I think bad runs happen to all the companies.

 

[Prebanpaul]

I had this recently happen. But Being honest, it was only with the "second bullets" from Midway.

 

[Beneviolence]

Could be a batch where the plastic used got screwed up and really brittle, either in curing or overheated at some point. FN had that issue with a batch of the FNX-45 except too squishy squishy.

 

[DMP]

As mentioned above, I started seeing tips break off when loading from a magazine. Tip gets jammed between the lugs and receiver. Jams up pretty bad. This is a new problem (along with the poofs). I ran over 6000 without a problem, but now.....

 

[dgheriani]

I've run thousands of 140s (6.5)and 108s (6mm) and never had an issue but of 35 or so 7mm 180s I loaded last night to start load dev on my 7SAUM, 2 of the rounds came out of the seating die with no tips? Bullets don't bottom out in the stem (Redding competition micrometer) and I couldn't find the lil tips anywhere. Maybe a bad batch? I kinda thought I shoulda got some Berger 180s.

 

[mscott]

I have found a few broken tips on 208’s brand new out of the factory box and also some Vmax in 22 caliber in the past. Not totally uncommon.

 

[jambau]

Yeah I just don't think I'm willing to take the risk. I'm about to begin load development all over again.

 

[SmartDonkey]

I remember the good old days when Hornady had just barely started lying to us about the heat shield tips.... and the first boxes with the new tips actually looked like something different. I still have some boxes of the 140 eldm that have the tip that is a darker red and almost has a glass look to it (and much harder)- And then they changed the color back, and I've seen more damaged tips than before. I purchased a box of eldx and the tips were blunted in the box.... Maybe they need to go back to those melting tips.... that don't explode.

 

[stello1001]

I remember the good old days when Hornady had just barely started lying to us about the heat shield tips.... and the first boxes with the new tips actually looked like something different. I still have some boxes of the 140 eldm that have the tip that is a darker red and almost has a glass look to it (and much harder)- And then they changed the color back, and I've seen more damaged tips than before. I purchased a box of eldx and the tips were blunted in the box.... Maybe they need to go back to those melting tips.... that don't explode.

It's prolly just your barrel lol...

 

[Ledzep]

I remember the good old days when Hornady had just barely started lying to us about the heat shield tips.... and the first boxes with the new tips actually looked like something different. I still have some boxes of the 140 eldm that have the tip that is a darker red and almost has a glass look to it (and much harder)- And then they changed the color back, and I've seen more damaged tips than before. I purchased a box of eldx and the tips were blunted in the box.... Maybe they need to go back to those melting tips.... that don't explode.

Winchester, I believe, had a patent on the translucent tip. The material is the same on the newer ELD's, it just has different dye. The ELD tips are a different color than SST/Vmax tips, and different material.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

I'm not sure I would completely trust any tipped bullet that was shipped in bulk and traveled through several conveyor belt sorting systems before being thrown on a truck for delivery. The trip from Hornady to the supplier was on a pallet.

I noticed the new Atips come packaged in a carton. Dunno if that is to protect them or to support the massive price increase over the AMAX/ELD.

 

[deersniper]

I noticed the new Atips come packaged in a carton. Dunno if that is to protect them or to support the massive price increase over the AMAX/ELD.

Have your read about them. There’s a lot more that goes into them

 

[DMP]

And they blow up too.....

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Have your read about them. There’s a lot more that goes into them

Not to much. Have seen them in the store and noticed the higher BC.

I think I am going stick to Berger and Monolithic Solids at this point (Other than 69SMKs for 5.56). These new flavors of the month always have some ugly issues that come out after a while.

 

[DMP]

ELDM problems have been around far too long. Berger for me now.

 

[deersniper]

Not to much. Have seen them in the store and noticed the higher BC.

I think I am going stick to Berger and Monolithic Solids at this point (Other than 69SMKs for 5.56). These new flavors of the month always have some ugly issues that come out after a while.

Good info here

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/a-tip-match#!/

I prefer the tipped bullets for the lethality. I did buy a bunch of 300nm loaded with hybrids so we will see if they ass as good as they say in re to hunting


Also this might help some of the people breaking tips at least during seating.

 

[jambau]

I'm not breaking off the tips. I'm finding them broken in the box.

 

[deersniper]

What’s Hornadys response ?

 

[Ledzep]

I'm not breaking off the tips. I'm finding them broken in the box.

In the box or after you tumble loaded rounds?... eta: Nvm. Got you mixed up with the OP.

FWIW I've seen it before, brittle material from whoever made the tips, air bubbles in the tip, or swaging the ogive too hard. If you contact Hornady tech support they should help you.

 

[m1match]

What’s Hornadys response ?

As the OP, here's an update on my specific case. Hornady sent me a shipping tag to return the unused 140 ELDMs to them and they will ship me replacements.

 

[jambau]

I have not contacted Hornady. Like ledzep said I am also seeing voids in the plastic. I am not doing any tumbling. They are broken when i opened the boxes

 

[TX_Dan]

As mentioned above, I started seeing tips break off when loading from a magazine. Tip gets jammed between the lugs and receiver. Jams up pretty bad. This is a new problem (along with the poofs). I ran over 6000 without a problem, but now.....

Not specific to this projectile, but tips breaking off and projectiles going poof really isn’t a new problem. Service Rifle shooters may remember that there were some issues with the 80 gr AMax tips when they first came out. Would look just like the picture above. After they worked on it, the 80gr Amax was my go to for 600. Ran a bunch of them till they were discontinued. The 75gr HPBTs had some issues going poof years back as well (early 2000’s. Could be more specific but those data books aren't handy). Switched to green boxes After that. I’ve heard that it‘s starting to creep up again In the high power world. The jacket might be thinner now and Hornady says we’re pushing them too fast out of a 1/7 twist. There’s a whole discussion on it on the NationalMatch board.

 

[NineHotel]

A prominent well known shooter and innovator told me this info directly. He was developing a new LR bullet with one of the major mfrs and had developed the bullet around having a plastic tip. When on the mfr's 300 yard indoor test range, he saw that the floor from about 240 yards on was littered with plastic tips.

He immediately abandoned development of a his plastic tipped bullet.

 

[Ledzep]

A prominent well known shooter and innovator told me this info directly. He was developing a new LR bullet with one of the major mfrs and had developed the bullet around having a plastic tip. When on the mfr's 300 yard indoor test range, he saw that the floor from about 240 yards on was littered with plastic tips.

He immediately abandoned development of a his plastic tipped bullet.

Cool story. Was he trying a different tip geometry that didn't work? Are you suggesting that tipped bullets shed their tips past 200yd? Were the tips bouncing out of a rubber/steel trap? Sorry, but without more details you've effectively stated nothing.

 

[NineHotel]

Tips were falling off in flight.

 

[jambau]

I decided to gamble and just received another box of .338 285 grain ELDM's and the tips are all intact. They are also a slightly different color then the ones that were breaking. Burgundy not red. Hmmm I guess we'll see...If any of these break I'll be doing some load development again starting with the Bergers