Brought this home at the weekend......

BasraBoy

BasraBoy

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
Mar 29, 2008
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Dark Side of the Moon
#1
Cant't help feeding my WWII "s****r" rifle addiction:

Been collecting parts for this for a while (became a real obsession!
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)

Picked up the finished article yesterday.

Rifle is a '44 dated Long Branch No4 Mk1* with 5 groove barrel (FTR'd at Fazakerley in '53)
Scope is a late '44 dated No32 MkIII by Cooke , Troughton and Simms
Repro Scope Bracket and mounting pads are from UK Enfield expert Roger Payne
EFD provided the repro cheekpiece
Late pattern repro scope caps from Jonathan Moore at Moore Leather
Turner Slings M1907 sling from their "Historic Reproduction" range
Mk1 Rear sight modified to allow bolt removal without removing scope (as per unit level mods)
"Unissued" 1957 brass buttplate (to replace original parkerized one)
Target swivel courtesy of Ebay

All put together for me by Paul Green at Thames Valley Guns in the UK

In hindsight this has probably worked out at least as expensive as buying a mid-range original and the project was not without the odd drama....but it all came good in the end!

The rifle shot 1.5" groups with out-of=the-box S&B 174gr when Paul tested it.

I hope to be able to improve on that with my HPS 174gr SMK's.

No4T003.jpg

No4T005.jpg


No4T004.jpg
 
#7
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Thanks guys.

Axeman, yes - Enfield No4 in .303. The original was the No4(T)...but not going to call this a T so as not to upset the purists!
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Looking forward to getting some rounds through it this weekend!
 
#13
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

I really enjoy shooting my modern precision rifles (AW, GAP) but there is something about my oldies (Enfield SMLE, Mauser 98k and now this No4) that is an additional challenge.

They may not have the accuracy of modern rifles or be built to the same tolerances....but they seem more rewarding when it all goes right.

I'd recommend having at least one in the safe, just to remind yourself how it used to be! It is very easy to take things for granted these days
wink.gif

 
#15
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

tikkat3 - you assume I haven't got them already and hang out at the mall telling everyone how I single-handedly pushed the Nazi hordes back across the Rhine
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PM inbound on Roger's details.
 
#16
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Ah yes, the rifle for putting round holes in square heads......

I remember seeing a couple in their chests with most of the CES at a gun shop in Sydney in about 1982 or 83. Price was $850.00, but alas back then I was a struggling young digger with a V8 to feed & an a desire for a Steyr SSG. I still have the Steyr, the V8 is long gone, but the No4T I should have bought.....
 
#17
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Those were the days......the Transit Chests are like rocking horse shit now. Even if you find a completely buggered one you're looking at US$300-$400.

I've found a bloke up in Canada who des a really good repro version. You can't have a No4(T) or even a fake one like mine without the chest!! It's next on the list.....

If you find a complete set (rifle, scope, chest, scope tin, sling, carry case) you're well into £3,000 territory now (probably more if it is matched rifle and scope - serial number of scope stamped on heel of rifle butt)
 
#18
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Stunning looking repro mate, I bet you will have as much fun shooting that as the AI etc! The classic military shoots at our club as far and away the most popular and well attended and for good reason. Nothing like nailing a 'huns' head at 200 yards in a McQueens comp! They give a good appreciation of how skilled and well trained the infantryman were of that period with these firearms (38 rounds into a 12" target at 300 yards in 1 minute I think was the record - without scope too!).
 
#19
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Thanks mate.

For me the old Enfield action is (still) one of the best there is.

Better than the bolt on this No4 is the bolt on my SMLE - smooth as silk and very fast - even after 95 years and who knows how much unknown abuse in the past.

No wonder the Germans thought they'd run into MG's when they came up against massed rapid fired Enfields on the Marne!
 
#20
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Just thought a comparison may be good for those of you into old school gun porn:

'44 Long Branch manufactured Enfield No4T (repro by TVG))
byf'41 Mauser 98k scoped (repro by Miltech)
'15 LSA manufactured Enfield MkIII SMLE (all matching, original)

Oldmilrifles002.jpg
 
#22
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

That smelly looks fantastic! Really nice woodwork. You've started something now I'm gonna have to go and photo mine (no where near as nice as your collection though)
 
#23
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

There was a military rifles thread here a while back - had a quick look but couldn't find it (I know...I should have used the improved search function but my GAS broke
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) so decided to post the "family group" here instead!

jagged77 - the wood on the SMLE is all original with serial number and proof stamps, no cracks or splits. Amazing given the age - but does carry some proud scars!
 
#31
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Can't beat shooting the old guns. I was shooting my MH 450/577 at the weekend and loved every minute of it, first time out with blackpowder loads.

I love the tac comps but every so often I just fancy a bit of fun.

Loads of stories at the club about No4T's be offered in a chest with all the bits unfired in the late 80's for £500!!!! What a pension plan they would have been
 
#33
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Finally got out yesterday again with the No4 to see if I could beat Paul's original 3 shot test groups of 1.4" at 100yds..

Distance was 100m using HPS Targetmaster's .303 174Gr SMK "house" load.

Weather was around 0 Deg C, poor light but very still.

Apart from the flyer on the right (which moves the group to around 1.7MOA) the best four measure out at 0.867 MOA using OnTarget.

I know.....only groups of 10 rnds count but I thought I'd post it anyway!
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It's not going to trouble my AW or GAP....but not bad for a 70 year old battle rifle/x3.5 scope and well on course to meet the wartime requirement of 7 rounds in a 7" diameter target at 200yds?

No4T174GrHPS.jpg


 
#35
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Reproductiion or not, both of you have gorgeous rifles. When I started shooting, fifty years ago, the goal for a hunting rifle was MOA or a bit less. Sure makes that rifle look even better.
 
#38
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Great looking piece! These old snipers are a joy to own and shoot. I have an M1D and it is one of my favorites. I happened to meet an older gentleman at a recent match at Butner, NC. He has written a pile of articles for Precision Shooting magazine, many of them on the Enfield. He told me that after a good bit of trouble, he was able to purchase an original rifle like the OP's. Funny (remarkable) part was, it was the same rifle he had been issued in service. What were the chances of that?

AG
 
#39
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Thanks for the kind words guys.

JelloStorm - wish I could help on the 98k - mine has been a lot harder to sort than the Enfield (mainly due to the Short Side Rail mount being a b1tch to keep screwed down). Is yours scoped or not? Are you using the iron sights? I'm guessing you have tried to adjust the front sight blade and that the rear sight is aligned and fixed correctly? I had to get a new front sight blank from Brownells and file it down to get something that worked with available modern ammo and that was still true to the rear sight ramp calibrations. The scope mount also needed additional work after it was fitted. The old ones can be a bit frustrating to start with but once everything comes together they are a lot of fun!

Maybe a call to Ed Silva at Miltech (a really nice guy and very knowledgable on Mausers)?

http://www.miltecharms.com/
 
#40
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

So my repro Transit Chest showed up yesterday...the set is nearly complete. Just need the original Scout Regt Telescope to complete the CES......

The chest is great - fantastic attention to detail. Anybody interested PM me for the maker's details. He's in Canada. He's a great guy to work with. Takes a real pride in his work.

TransitChest007.jpg


TransitChest005.jpg
 
#41
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

A splendid project - makes me want to break out my copy of "With British snipers to the Reich" for a rereading. And source a Mark IV for some blatant rip-off.

Good luck on the Scout Reg telescope hunt - the drawglasses has a special hold on me and if you score one, I`m guesstimating, I`m not alone in hoping you`ll do a write up on the telescope as well...
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#42
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Thanks Beau...and "With British Snipers...." is still, nearly 70 years on, an amazing read! Although some might find it "politically incorrect" these days
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I'll refresh this post when (if??) I find the telescope.

I know a place that seems to have them reasonably often, but they don't come cheap in mint condition these days!
 
#43
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Mauser 98k that shoots groups 5" right at 50 yards that's been pissing me off. Just don't know what to do with it to get it to shoot correctly... </div></div>

Obvious question but is the mount moving? if its a short rail I know the recoil loosened some of them up. Is it real? even a copy k98 sniper should be shooting 2moa
 
#44
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

that rifle is magnificent! I would like to shoot any of those older rifles, but that one looks top notch!
 
#48
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Very, very nice! Believe it or not I was once issued a 2-groove WWII Enfield 'sniper' model, with an unused WWII scope and in the original wooden box. I've been looking for one ever since, but couldn't find an all-original setup for less than four grand. Yours is a shooter, not a collector, and I like that about it.
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#49
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

I'm really amazed at the interest this thread has created and really appreciate all the kind comments.

graham - I'm not a fan of UK style gun control. We have to shoot (and prove we have shot) all owned rifles a minimum of three times a year. If we don't/can't...our local Firearms Liaison Office will ensure they are "removed" from our possession one way or the other

One positive of this for me (about the only one) is that it makes no sense to have safe-queens or rifles that aren't capable of shooting well. So Paul at TVG put a lot of wotk into sourcing a rifle for the project that was a proven shooter and then did the conversion exactly as per Peter Laidler's instructions. And it seems to have worked out well.

Great to hear that you were issued one...shame you couldn't have kept it! They are gold dust now - especially with the original CES parts included hest, scope, sling etc.).

What really pisses me off is the "rip off" industry that has grown up around these old rifles - whether it is fake Waffenampt stamps or similar fakery for the "T" stamp and Holland and Holand "S51" stamp on the No4T.

I've even heard that there is a growing market in parts for transit chests now....any old British Army box is being broken up and parts (hinges, catches etc.) are being sold as parts for the No4T chest (in effect they were all different!)

Sad to say but you find faked rifles even in good reputable gun dealers being sold as originals.

You've got to keep your wits about you if you're shopping for a real one......

I know the guy who has the original H&H stamps for the No4T and he offered to lend them to me for use on this rifle but I didn't accept the offer.

Paul "took steps" during the build to make sure this one could not be palmed off as an original later on.....if I sell it, it'll be sold on it's merits and as a repro!

EDITTED: If anyone is interested in reading a little more about the gun-smithing side of this project Paul Green at TVG has put a small article on his website:

http://www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk

Go to the "Conversions" tab and the No4 is the last entry on the pull-down menu.
 
#50
Re: Brought this home at the weekend......

Nice rifle...I have the same addiction ....I love to shoot the older snipers... I have a few myself...I want to bulid a repro K98 I would luke to build a swept back or a LSR...Wish I could afford a real one but that isnt gonna happen...Plus I want to be able to shoot it
 
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