Bubble Level for 22LR

[Just Chuck]

I did a search and didn't get any hits so thought I'd see ya'll thoughts are.

Being fairly new to 22lr tactical and 'precision' shoots, I was wondering if anyone is running level on their scope/rifle.

If it is correct that shooting a 22lr is equivalent shooting a 308win at 4X the distance, then shooting the 22lr at 230yards is equivalent to shooting a 308win at 920 yards. I would certainly want a level for that shot.

I do have a level coming from Midway so I am going to put one on, but I'd really like to hear what everyone else thinks about this.

 

[gpkon66]

Just put one on last week. Going to have to get used to it. Got it due to shooting 300 yd matches with my 22.

 

[ESBVader]

I have a level on every bolt gun. Even slight cant at range can cause misses so I just prefer to always verify cant before the trigger pull personally. I've mounted the US Optics swivel bubble on all of mine for consistency, but there are a lot of good ones out there.

 

[barronian]

Got one on each of my guns. Two shots will show you why it is needed (one level and one with 'cant' ).

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you find yourself canting the rifle, put one on and train with it.

If you don’t find yourself with the problem, don’t worry about it.

 

[billmeek]

If you are shooting long range, cant in your optic can make a big difference. For example at 500 yards with standard velocity ammo you have a flight time of approximately 1.95 seconds. Assuming your scope is mounted 2 inches above the bore, cant will have these effects:

1 degree cant - 12.83 inches horizontally and -0.11 inches vertically
2 degrees cant - 25.66 inches horizontally and -0.45 inches vertically
3 degrees cant - 38.48 inches horizontally and -1.01 inches vertically

I have a 'Send iT' digital level that I use for ELR:

Send iT Original Electronic Level System - Short Action Precision

Long Range Arms has changed the game when it comes to precision shooting levels. If you want to take your long range game to the next level, the “Send iT” electronic level is your answer and here are some of the reasons why:You never have to take your eyes off the reticle. The “Green” LED can be...

www.shortactionprecision.com

 

[Just Chuck]

If you are shooting long range, cant in your optic can make a big difference. For example at 500 yards with standard velocity ammo you have a flight time of approximately 1.95 seconds. Assuming your scope is mounted 2 inches above the bore, cant will have these effects:

1 degree cant - 12.83 inches horizontally and -0.11 inches vertically
2 degrees cant - 25.66 inches horizontally and -0.45 inches vertically
3 degrees cant - 38.48 inches horizontally and -1.01 inches vertically

I have a 'Send iT' digital level that I use for ELR:

Send iT Original Electronic Level System - Short Action Precision

Long Range Arms has changed the game when it comes to precision shooting levels. If you want to take your long range game to the next level, the “Send iT” electronic level is your answer and here are some of the reasons why:You never have to take your eyes off the reticle. The “Green” LED can be...

www.shortactionprecision.com

If I understand the ‘Send It’ device it actually detects the rifle level. It’s my limited knowledge that the critical part is having the scope level. Minor alignment differences (2 degrees or less) between scope and rifle will not cause problems. True?

 

[Dthomas3523]

If I understand the ‘Send It’ device it actually detects the rifle level. It’s my limited knowledge that the critical part is having the scope level. Minor alignment differences (2 degrees or less) between scope and rifle will not cause problems. True?

Depends. The only time the rifle and optic won’t be leveled together is if you have a natural cant that you cannot train out with proper fundamentals.

 

[billmeek]

My scopes are leveled using a Dead Level:

Gunsmithing Tools for Firearm Maintenance & Customization | Brownells

Shop gunsmithing tools (704) at Brownells, including bench blocks, hammer & punch sets, screwdrivers, and tool kits for firearm maintenance and repairs.

www.brownells.com

So they should match the Send iT. If you need to mount the Send iT on the right (for lefties) or need a rifle cant, they do offer an (overpriced) scope mount kit:

Send iT - 35mm Tube Adjustable Level Mount - Short Action Precision

Compatible with Send It MV3 and Crush It Timer For left handed shooters, or people who just want an alternative way to mount your Send_iT Level, we now have the LRA Adjustable Level Mount. This scope ring mount will allow you to mount the level in a Horizontal or a Vertical configuration on...

www.shortactionprecision.com

 

[brianf]

I’ll get shit for saying from some guys on here but I have one on everything
Fundamentals...the regular company line aside
If you do this for a hobby and don’t dryfire everyday or take a class every year or so
A little help can’t hurt

 

[nockhunter]

During a match, when the RO says "engage" do you really look at the level? Do you have enough time (90sec)? How many people look at the bubble level? By the time you insert mag, set parallax, dope, and acquire targets, is there time to check level, cheek weld then start shooting?

Mike

 

[Just Chuck]

During a match, when the RO says "engage" do you really look at the level? Do you have enough time (90sec)? How many people look at the bubble level? By the time you insert mag, set parallax, dope, and acquire targets, is there time to check level, cheek weld then start shooting.

Mike

Yeah, I would, 'cause missing fast and not checking level, really won't help your score, IMO . Especially on 1-250 yard targets.

 

[nockhunter]

You "would" or you do check level?

Mike

 

[Just Chuck]

You "would" or you do check level?

Mike

Yes I will when I get a level on my 22lr. Supposed to be here tomorrow . I did/ do use a level in F class t/r but a different game with easy time constraints compared to 22lr tact/precision shoots.

 

[billmeek]

I do use the level in ELR matchs/shooting. Depending on the stage, I may use it in NRL22. I haven't as of yet as I've not seen the need so far. At 100 yards 3 degrees is under a half inch and you're normally looking at 2 MOA targets at 100 yards.

 

[nockhunter]

I think its a wast of time mostly. Trying to check level while shooting from rooftops, barricades, ladder rungs, chair backs, etc. Practice good solid shooting from prone, modified prone, kneeling. Working on fundamentals, cheek weld, sight picture, trigger squeeze, follow through, bolt manipulation (for bolt guns obviously), next target acquisition, and so forth. I am not trying to discourage the use of a level, I think they are more useful in other "benchrest" disciplines, benchrest for group, for score, F-class (belly benchrest), etc.
Hell ,,if you like a level "go for it". Just my $.02

Mike

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I also use a bubble level on everything I shoot. I have also used a lot of different once and finally settled on one type. You can use it on 30mm or 1" scope tubes.

Amazon.com : JIALITTE Scope Bubble Level Fits 1in / 30mm Tube Riflescope Rifle Level for Precision Shooting Competition and Hunting (2 Pack) : Clothing

Amazon.com : JIALITTE Scope Bubble Level Fits 1in / 30mm Tube Riflescope Rifle Level for Precision Shooting Competition and Hunting (2 Pack) : Clothing

www.amazon.com

For 34mm scopes the Lone Star is my favorite.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I think its a wast of time mostly. Trying to check level while shooting from rooftops, barricades, ladder rungs, chair backs, etc. Practice good solid shooting from prone, modified prone, kneeling. Working on fundamentals, cheek weld, sight picture, trigger squeeze, follow through, bolt manipulation (for bolt guns obviously), next target acquisition, and so forth. I am not trying to discourage the use of a level, I think they are more useful in other "benchrest" disciplines, benchrest for group, for score, F-class (belly benchrest), etc.
Hell ,,if you like a level "go for it". Just my $.02

Mike

Bubble levels are very good training tools. While one is practicing all the things you listed, they have time to use the level and if they aren’t naturally setting up the rifle level, they can adjust.

This will teach them what their reticle look and “feels” like when it’s level.

So, if they use their comp rig to train (should be with a .22 because the barrel ain’t burning out) then it definitely makes sense to have one during a match as it wouldn’t make sense to take it off and put it on all the time.

I do agree though, rarely will the level be used during a match.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I run one on my Tikka. The MK Machining aluminum version. Not a huge fan of their printed version. Although their printed are excellent. They are Picatinny rail mounted though. I find it helpful to get a 'feeling' of what level should be. I can see it, my dope card and through my scope from my cheek weld.

 

[billmeek]

For us older guys with presbyopia (need reading glasses), seeing a bubble level can be a problem while maintaining cheek weld. That's one of the reasons I went with the Send iT. The different colored LEDs are easy for me to pickup without getting off the scope.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I push mine out as far away as I can.

 

[billmeek]

I push mine out as far away as I can.

I tried that with books, menus, etc. for awhile. My arms just aren't long enough. <grin>

 

[nockhunter]

You are really are not going to gain much during a "position match" . You will lose anything you think you are gaining due to natural elements (wind), plain old wobbly hold, just like worrying about spin drift. Most everyone can't hold steady enough off of obstacles to gain much, lost in the variables that compound themselves. Wind + hold + awkward shooting position + range estimation + good dope info + time = a lot to worry about, you don't need to add anything else. You will lose to wind most of all. More than anything gained by using a level.

Mike

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Sigh. To the OP - whether to use a bubble level or not is a personal one. There is no right or wrong answer. Try one (a decent one, not a tiny half-inch-wide thing that will break in short order). Mount the bubble and see what your point of impact (POI) versus point of aim (POA) does with varying amounts of intentional cant. If you think it helps, use it / them.

I like the bubble levels. My $0.02 is, get one wide enough to be useful and mount it as far forward as you can. I like the standard Vortex bubbles (around $40) and I can see them sufficiently well at a glance with a solid cheek weld, even though I've had cataract surgery and require reading glasses for truly clear focus at arm's length.

As you grow into and learn about precision rifle - or any shooting discipline - you will encounter plenty of people who are certain that their way is THE way and everyone should do what they do.

Ignore the "absolutists." I shot NSSA skeet for a couple of decades. I made it to AAA classification (as high as it goes) in all four gauges - but I was always a better referee than shooter. I've had the privilege of pulling targets for true legends of the sport, and I'll tell you straight up that a few of them had bizarre gun mounts, foot/stance positions, etc. They were repeat winners at the national level, even though "novice experts" would immediately assume incompetence based on violation of norms.

It's a great idea to seriously consider advice from good shooters, but at the end of the day, you need to find what works for you. That will be a long and probably expensive process. Just enjoy the ride and learn as you go. At this point in my own development, I know that I prefer chassis stocks to traditional ones. I know that I like bubble levels. I learned (expensively) that single-stage triggers work better for me than two-stage ones. I know that I prefer (gasp) MOA scopes. And guess what? I really don't give a flying rat's ass whether anyone else likes them or not. I use the things that work for me.

 

[Just Chuck]

I tried that with books, menus, etc. for awhile. My arms just aren't long enough. <grin>

I've graduated up to 2.5 and holding steady...for now.

You are really are not going to gain much during a "position match" . You will lose anything you think you are gaining due to natural elements (wind), plain old wobbly hold, just like worrying about spin drift. Most everyone can't hold steady enough off of obstacles to gain much, lost in the variables that compound themselves. Wind + hold + awkward shooting position + range estimation + good dope info + time = a lot to worry about, you don't need to add anything else. You will lose to wind most of all. More than anything gained by using a level.

Mike

I agree - my intent would be to use a level for long distance (100-250 yard) prone shots. That's where I think it would be worthwhile.

Sigh. To the OP - whether to use a bubble level or not is a personal one. There is no right or wrong answer. Try one (a decent one, not a tiny half-inch-wide thing that will break in short order). Mount the bubble and see what your point of impact (POI) versus point of aim (POA) does with varying amounts of intentional cant. If you think it helps, use it / them.

I like the bubble levels. My $0.02 is, get one wide enough to be useful and mount it as far forward as you can. I like the standard Vortex bubbles (around $40) and I can see them sufficiently well at a glance with a solid cheek weld, even though I've had cataract surgery and require reading glasses for truly clear focus at arm's length.

As you grow into and learn about precision rifle - or any shooting discipline - you will encounter plenty of people who are certain that their way is THE way and everyone should do what they do.

Ignore the "absolutists." I shot NSSA skeet for a couple of decades. I made it to AAA classification (as high as it goes) in all four gauges - but I was always a better referee than shooter. I've had the privilege of pulling targets for true legends of the sport, and I'll tell you straight up that a few of them had bizarre gun mounts, foot/stance positions, etc. They were repeat winners at the national level, even though "novice experts" would immediately assume incompetence based on violation of norms.

It's a great idea to seriously consider advice from good shooters, but at the end of the day, you need to find what works for you. That will be a long and probably expensive process. Just enjoy the ride and learn as you go. At this point in my own development, I know that I prefer chassis stocks to traditional ones. I know that I like bubble levels. I learned (expensively) that single-stage triggers work better for me than two-stage ones. I know that I prefer (gasp) MOA scopes. And guess what? I really don't give a flying rat's ass whether anyone else likes them or not. I use the things that work for me.

Thanks for your input. My purpose was to check with other 22lr shooters doing the tactical/precision shoots and see what the 'cool kids' do. In the matches I've been too - haven't seen anyone with a level. I did get a Vortex level and it's on, but I may change location on the scope. Initial try at the range was ok - but not awesome.

 

[littlepod]

I have one on all my rifles, and use it as a training and verification tool. I don't know if I really actually took the time to look at it during a match, but it takes less than a second for me to shift focus to my left eye and see it. I shoot both eyes open so it's really quick to check and continue shooting w/o losing any time.

Photo of my 25yard parallax-free setting, but can see where I have it positioned where I can see down my reticle and see the bubble level w/ both eyes open.

 

[D_TROS]

Scope Tube Level | Burris Optics

www.burrisoptics.com

I have used a ton of levels, but the Burris one has been my favorite for 2 reasons. First off, it is the only one that comes with a spacer so you can use it on a 30mm scope or take spacer out and use it on a 34mm scope. Brilliant. Second, it has a very small footprint and tightens easy.



GL!
DT

 

[Darqusoull13]

I agree with @Dthomas3523 that putting a level on your training rifle allows you to understand what you're looking at when the reticle is level. I really like the integrated bubble level in my chassis.

 

[tinman52]

After reading this thread, I'll be putting levels on my rifles

 

[Shooter1960655]

I run levels on my rifles do I use them on every single shot on every single occasion no but it's a lot better to have them there if you need them and I've never felt they've hindered me at anytime better to have them and not need them then need them and not have them as the saying goes

 

[Shooter_X]

I had a guy here tell me that when he shoots his 22 it is not a critical situation.
Yet by the same token, people are using 22's for trainers. Training for what?
The answer to that is training for precision and being able to hit the intended target.
That could easily be critical. If you're holding a .22 at the time that this shot is needed.......it IS critical.


On to the bubble level.
This is a training tool. What it will do for you is show you how far off you are when you thought you were dead on with your cant.
From this, you would use your reticle angle to compensate. The guy who naturally props up canted to the right, can see that his reticle just isn't correct after using a level and training himself to his reticle with use of the level.
At the times when referencing the level doesn't make sense, such as timed events, ( or in my case eye socket , or just behind the eye socket shots) then at that time he will be much closer to proper cant, than he would have been without training with a level.
This is where the bubble level makes a significant difference.
I use bubble levels. I use them for target shooting off bags where they are a necessity and I use them to level my gun off in the field from bipods. Bubble levels are not a waste of time. Bubble levels are another training tool for critical precision.


T.S.

 

[Cuzz]

Its easy for me to cant if theres nothing level to refer to. Even the target being level if it has vert or horizontal lines would do but ive never once used a level to put up a target.
i have hung a weighted string to compare with vertical scope lines.
I use a bubble. Thats one of several things i like about my mpa chassis.

 

[Shooter_X]

Bubble levels are very good training tools. While one is practicing all the things you listed, they have time to use the level and if they aren’t naturally setting up the rifle level, they can adjust.

This will teach them what their reticle look and “feels” like when it’s level.

So, if they use their comp rig to train (should be with a .22 because the barrel ain’t burning out) then it definitely makes sense to have one during a match as it wouldn’t make sense to take it off and put it on all the time.

I do agree though, rarely will the level be used during a match.

lol.
I just saw this. I basically typed the same thing.
I had to give the guy a like for this.
Info is spot on.

T.S.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I use bubble levels on all my scopes. I have tried and use a lot of different ones over the years and my favorite for 1" and 30mm is
this. For 34mm I prefer Lone Star. Probably others work just as well but these are the ones I use now.

 

[JRosson]

I have one on all my rifles, and use it as a training and verification tool. I don't know if I really actually took the time to look at it during a match, but it takes less than a second for me to shift focus to my left eye and see it. I shoot both eyes open so it's really quick to check and continue shooting w/o losing any time.

Photo of my 25yard parallax-free setting, but can see where I have it positioned where I can see down my reticle and see the bubble level w/ both eyes open.

View attachment 7137459

Same for me. I shoot with both eyes open, and I have one on every bolt gun I own. Right or wrong, it's always checked in my peripheral. Just part of my routine.

 

[chanrobi]

If you find yourself canting the rifle, put one on and train with it.

If you don’t find yourself with the problem, don’t worry about it.

Terrible advice.

No one can tell minute differences in cant that will cause a miss at long range. Can you tell 2.5 deg of cant? I doubt it.

 

[45cal4life]

Since every persons body / shoulders are different; Isn't best to get the natural point of aim / hold with the rifle first then level the recticle?

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Since every persons body / shoulders are different; Isn't best to get the natural point of aim / hold with the rifle first then level the recticle?

I've been saying this since I was two years old. I'd go one step further and say once the reticle looks good to you then (if you are using one) set your bubble level. But, people are different and do things different. Regardless of anything else, your main goal is to hold the rifle the same way every time.

 

[littlepod]

Since every persons body / shoulders are different; Isn't best to get the natural point of aim / hold with the rifle first then level the recticle?

Way too many threads on this, by canting the rifle, and zeroing the scope, the scope is no longer centerline with the bore, meaning it's offset by a slight amount. Though this offset affects the bullet a whole lot less then what canting the rifle does.

The other point people have made is if you're shouldering the rifle canted as what feels good to you, are you good/experienced enough to know that is the correct position, or is that just a bad habit? I originally followed the, let's shoulder my rifle and level my scope based on how I shouldered my rifle, and then was told, what if the way I was shouldering slightly canted was just really bad mechanics? Then you are going to train using bad mechanics over and over. So for beginner shooters, align everything level and practice that way unless you are professional instructed somewhere else.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Your rifle needs to be level for the really long shots. And why positional shooting is difficult. Or more difficult. In a perfect world, the rifle would sit nice in your shoulder pocket and your cheek weld would just fall into place. You realize how unperfect the world really is when you shoot weak side from barrier too tall to kneel and too short to stand.

 

[chanrobi]

Way too many threads on this, by canting the rifle, and zeroing the scope, the scope is no longer centerline with the bore, meaning it's offset by a slight amount. Though this offset affects the bullet a whole lot less then what canting the rifle does.

The other point people have made is if you're shouldering the rifle canted as what feels good to you, are you good/experienced enough to know that is the correct position, or is that just a bad habit? I originally followed the, let's shoulder my rifle and level my scope based on how I shouldered my rifle, and then was told, what if the way I was shouldering slightly canted was just really bad mechanics? Then you are going to train using bad mechanics over and over. So for beginner shooters, align everything level and practice that way unless you are professional instructed somewhere else.

The rifle doesn't care whether or not you are level.

What's important is that your SCOPE is level to the world. Don't take my word for it, take Todd Hodnetts

In this way you can have the rifle canted, if your biomechanics needs it, and just have your scope level to the world as usual.

 

[motorcycleboy]

I have one on all my rifles, and use it as a training and verification tool. I don't know if I really actually took the time to look at it during a match, but it takes less than a second for me to shift focus to my left eye and see it. I shoot both eyes open so it's really quick to check and continue shooting w/o losing any time.

Photo of my 25yard parallax-free setting, but can see where I have it positioned where I can see down my reticle and see the bubble level w/ both eyes open.

View attachment 7137459

What he said. Is exactly what I would say.

 

[dave bell]

If I understand the ‘Send It’ device it actually detects the rifle level. It’s my limited knowledge that the critical part is having the scope level. Minor alignment differences (2 degrees or less) between scope and rifle will not cause problems. True?

 

[dave bell]

I have Vortex levels on all my toys.... I use bipods and thy are rarely level... definitely worth it