Budget .223 bolt rig for youths? (PRS)

[earthquake]

Update/EDIT (June 2017): I decided on and bought a rifle this past March for my son and got him out in the field last weekend to shoot it, see page 2). Discussion has moved to loads for .223 in a 16" 8-twist barrel. Thanks for all the input!!

I am wanting to build a rifle for my 11-yo son. Regular stocks/chassis are too big for him and he's outgrown his Cricket .22LR (little sis is getting that).

My idea is since there are no youth sized stocks I know of, especially not cheap, is to get a Rem700 barreled action in .223 and put it in a Magpul hunter.

He shot my big 6.5 Creedmoor out to 700 and enjoyed it. I want to get something that fits him better and perhaps get him involved with the up and coming PRS kids matches.

Any suggestions on good deals on .223 Remmys or my stock idea? Thank you in advance.

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[sierracharlie338]

This is a 223 build I did for myself. Stock Rem 700 tactical in a bell and Carlson stock with a Tunney trigger.

Shoots stupid good out to 500 with handloads.

You could always get a stock similar and have a smith modify it to fit him or go with something a little more easily modified.



Sierracharlie338....

 

[sierracharlie338]

Did I mention it was a budget build. About 1200 altogether in it. Not sure on exact total.





Sierracharlie338....

 

[missed]

I am planning on building my daughter a 22x47L on a Savage action with a Boyds Tacticool stock. I was thinking one of the SWFA fixed power scopes or maybe a Burris XTR2 or the Vortex PST2. I have thought about the 223 but I'm already setup for the 22x47L

 

[MarkCO]

Ruger Americans are very accurate and inexpensive. At 100 yards, I get 1" groups with Aguila 55 FMJs and right around 0.3" with 69s.

 

[bogeybrown]

I had considered recommending the Ruger American to the OP, but his concern seemed to be with dropping into a stock/chassis that he could size down for his son. Oakland Tactical has the Rugers for ridiculously cheap right now, and have been a solid vendor here for quite a while, but I don't know how "small" he could make one for his son.

 

[Rob01]

Check out the Howa offerings in .223. They have others but make some with adjustable LOP stocks like this one.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/58260
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/21014
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/21015

Or a package with a not great scope but it will work ok until he gets better

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/49839

 

[Spock]

Savage hog hunter dropped into an XLR element chassis will grow with him and easy to switch calibers later on. My son loves his has been shooting it since he was 10 now has a 7mm-08 option in the system as well. Being able to let the stock grow with him has been great. Both options have been really good accuracy wise. He's starting to challenge me and my GAP 6.5cr. Of course it might be the guy behind the GAP, lol

 

[MidCitiesMildMan]

Savage 10 or 11. My 10FP-SR has shot 1 MOA 10-shot groups @ 100 yards with Wolf Gold.

 

[MarkCO]

I had considered recommending the Ruger American to the OP, but his concern seemed to be with dropping into a stock/chassis that he could size down for his son. Oakland Tactical has the Rugers for ridiculously cheap right now, and have been a solid vendor here for quite a while, but I don't know how "small" he could make one for his son.

I cut 1.2" off the stock, but you could certainly cut a lot more. M youngest was about 4'5" when he started shooting it. Not many .223s with 1:8 for that low of a price tag.

 

[bogeybrown]

I've only recently even looked at the Ruger Americans because a friend is interested in one and asked my opinion. They look pretty solid for what they are, and at $300 and change I was intrigued. I didn't know if the stock could be cut down or not. If that stock can be cut down then that's a HELL of a budget starting point.

 

[hlee]

I built an AR-15 for my son when he was ready to step up to a centerfire rifle. The collapsible stocks are perfect for this as I can collapse the stock for him to shoot and then fully expend the stock for me. An intermediate setting is perfect for my wife. I would look at a chassis that incorporates AR-15 furniture if I were looking to build a bolt action rifle for a youth shooter.

 

[spife7980]

I've only recently even looked at the Ruger Americans because a friend is interested in one and asked my opinion. They look pretty solid for what they are, and at $300 and change I was intrigued. I didn't know if the stock could be cut down or not. If that stock can be cut down then that's a HELL of a budget starting point.

Not sure that you can easily cut down an american factory stock. I havent taken mine apart but I will say that the butt is light enough that I am 99% certain its hollow and tapping on it indicates that as well. Maybe you could fill it and then flush it up and remount the recoil pad. It is nice and light and it feels shorter to me than any other stocks I have at the moment; whether thats because it actually is or if its just ergonomics of a thin stock I cant say at this time.

I would get the cheapest 223 you can source and throw it in a boyds. You can cut down those wood stocks to whatever you want and only be out 150 bucks for it. Or a used 223 in a wood stock already that you could chop on. Then when hes grown a bit get him a decent stock to replace the cut up factory.

 

[bogeybrown]

Not sure that you can easily cut down an american factory stock. I havent taken mine apart but I will say that the butt is light enough that I am 99% certain its hollow and tapping on it indicates that as well. Maybe you could fill it and then flush it up and remount the recoil pad. It is nice and light and it feels shorter to me than any other stocks I have at the moment; whether thats because it actually is or if its just ergonomics of a thin stock I cant say at this time.

I would get the cheapest 223 you can source and throw it in a boyds. You can cut down those wood stocks to whatever you want and only be out 150 bucks for it. Or a used 223 in a wood stock already that you could chop on. Then when hes grown a bit get him a decent stock to replace the cut up factory.

That's good info Spife. My impression was that it was a lightweight plastic stock, but I've never screwed with one. In the OP's interest of a budget build, although there are some great budget shooters out there (Tikka, Howa, Ruger?) he may hit a wall finding a budget chassis/youth stock the farther her gets from a 700 footprint.

 

[MarkCO]

[No message]

 

[Smokyred]

I saw the other day that Howa offers their 1500 Mini in a youth stock. You could swap out the stock for an MDT LSS chassis if you wanted something better than a plastic stock. That is my plan, though I will be going with a 6.5 Grendel.

 

[IanHusaberg]

I'd check out the Mossberg MVP 24"5.56/.223. It takes ar mags and mine shoots one hole groups with 55gr. Hornady Amax's. I paid $500 ish a couple years ago.

 

[BurnOut]

I second (third?) the Howa mini action. Very affordable and nice for the money.

 

[earthquake]

Thank you for all the help! I like the How's/MDT option! Never even heard of or thought of that.

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[earthquake]

^ Howa....stupid spellcheck!

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[powdahound76]

MDT makes that chassis for the Ruger that takes an AR buffer and stock. Would fully collapsed fit him?
Then your boy gets better mags too as it is AICS compatible.
Just another choice.

 

[mcfred]

I would seriously look at the Howa Mini in .223.
A friend got one and has written a review of sorts:

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6711043/m/1491041322?r=3681047522#3681047522

$311 gun with Xgiving Holiday rebate, $5 aluminum Weaver mounts and a $299 Vortex scope and he was off and bangin' steel to 1,100 yards. I've shot it a few times and I'm surprised at how good it is for as inexpenive it is. Boyds makes a stock for it now too if you can't live with the flimsy plastic stock.

 

[Spock]

[No message]

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've been in the same boat lately. The problem I see with all the Rems, Howas, Mossbergs and any other factory barreled action/rifle I looked at as a starting point is that they all have 1 in 9" or slower twist. That's a deal breaker for me, makes me think about going back to my original plan of an SPR type AR for him.

 

[MarkCO]

The Ruger American is 1:8

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The Ruger American is 1:8

Yup, just went and did my research after I read your post. The Ranch rifle in 223 in the MDT LSS chassis with a Luth MBA3 suddenly looks like a good setup for a little guy. If it shoots...

 

[MATADOR]

I picked up a used R700 SPS .223. My boys shoot the fuck out of it. When they get bigger I'll rebarrel or remage for them. Howa is good shit, but it's easier and cheaper to rebarrel a Savage in your garage with gauges when the time comes.

Or get something used and drop that bitch in a XLR or MDT, you'll get better resale than a Magpul later on. Either way, keep em shooting.

 

[MATADOR]

[No message]

 

[mcfred]

The problem ... is that they all have 1 in 9" or slower twist. That's a deal breaker for me.

I'm just curious, what are you doing with an 8 twist that can't be done with a 9? I have a CZ that's only 9 and it does fine with 75 hpbts and similar, but a Berger 70 VLD has as good as or better BC than the 77s and 75s. Then there's the Nolser RDFs too. What elevation are you at? Thinner air requires less twist.

 

[dannySH]

What a bout a Tikka T3X Compact in .223? 20" barrel with 1:8 twist, LOP adjustable from 12.5 - 13.7 inches. When he grows up you can throw it in any chassis you like (XLR, MDT, MPA or KRG)

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[earthquake]

Now I'm interested in the Ruger American. It is already threaded for a brake and at $399 from Cabela's, is a good price. Put that in an MDT lss with my spare 2.5-15x Athlon Midas and it should be a decent platform for him.

I see on Brownells that the lss chassis does not come with a grip or buttstock. The price is the same as on mdt's website, but they show photos of a complete chassis as far as I can tell.

Anyone know the scoop if that chassis comes ready to shoot?

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[MarkCO]

All of the Ruger Americans shoot great (I have 4 now). I'd look at a Predator if the threaded barrel is what you want.

 

[spife7980]

Now I'm interested in the Ruger American. It is already threaded for a brake and at $399 from Cabela's, is a good price. Put that in an MDT lss with my spare 2.5-15x Athlon Midas and it should be a decent platform for him.

I see on Brownells that the lss chassis does not come with a grip or buttstock. The price is the same as on mdt's website, but they show photos of a complete chassis as far as I can tell.

Anyone know the scoop if that chassis comes ready to shoot?

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Its just the core. you still need to equip the lss with furniture.

"The LSS chassis is designed to accept any AR-15 butt-stock and pistol grip (purchased separately)" https://mdttac.com/lss-chassis-system.html

 

[earthquake]

Ok, thanks. Seems like every option, once I gather all the parts are pushing $900-$1,000.

I can buy a Mossberg MVP from my local Cabela's right now with everything (brake, MDT chassis, grip, bipod) for $1,040 but I know very little about Mossberg rifles.

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[spife7980]

I wouldnt do a mossberg personally just because they feel... sloppy is the first term I can think of though I have only ever actually fired their shotguns. But yeah, if youre going to outfit something with a chassis it will be a grand.

I would just take him to hold a ruger american ranch for a shorter threaded option or a savage axis in store and see if he finds that its too large and if so throw it in a boyds you can easily cut up. Thats 350-400 for the rifle plus 150-200 for the stock. Cut it down as far as he finds necessary and youre good to go, both triggers should be serviceable for a kids first rifle. You can drill some holes through the boyds where you find necessary to relieve weight as it will be heavier than the factory stock in its normal configuration. Maybe a little shoe polish and jb weld to bed it and some sand paper to clearance everything shuold be all that it takes to have a dandy little rifle. Throw that midas on and youre ready to roll. My cousin got a 223 r700 varmint adl for 350 with a rebate through dicks a year or two ago so there are sales that can make anything attainable if you can stand to wait.

Edit: I just saw this for 409, wood stocked so you can cut it to whatever you want without another purchase. Not a lot invested in a fancy get up that you have to worry about the kid dropping and it costing a grand to replace. No brake options but I wouldnt give a kid a braked rifle if he could ever be using it without ear plugs when he starts hunting or something.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoot...dsPerPage%3D48

 

[bogeybrown]

Now I'm interested in the Ruger American. It is already threaded for a brake and at $399 from Cabela's, is a good price. Put that in an MDT lss with my spare 2.5-15x Athlon Midas and it should be a decent platform for him.

I see on Brownells that the lss chassis does not come with a grip or buttstock. The price is the same as on mdt's website, but they show photos of a complete chassis as far as I can tell.

Anyone know the scoop if that chassis comes ready to shoot?

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Oakland Tactical has the 22" .223 Ruger for $355. If my senile memory serves, the owner is Mike and he's easily reachable here on the Hide.

https://oaklandtactical.com/firearms/bolt-action-rifles.html?manufacturer=Ruger&stock=instockonly

 

[MATADOR]

Remember, this is for a kid. It's very easy to keep up'ing your budget. I would love for my 2 boys to have the best shooting shit available. But from someone that's been through this before, kids change, they grow, they change their interest, again...they get bigger. I use shooting and my rifles as motivation for being a good kid and education. You want to shoot, make good grades and stay out of trouble. You want nice rifles, get a good education so you can afford a safe full of customs when you are grown. Both of my boys have extremely nice hunting rifles that I bought for them for their "first rifle from dad", but the rest is on them. The 223 I built up for them to shoot is mine, not theirs, and they know that. By all means, do what it takes to keep them behind a trigger, youth is where it's at. But you can also use it as leverage for motivation in a world that is different than it used to be. I have maybe $600 in the picture I posted earlier, and I'm not spending a penny more on it. It will do way more than meet my oldest needs. Spend extra money on ammo, that's what they need, more trigger time.

Disclaimer: Don't take this as me telling you how to raise a child, just food for thought....

If I had to do it all over again, I would shop around for a used 223 at a good price that has decent aftermarket support. Prices are dropping by the minute now with the current political situation. I promise your 11 yr old won't care what fucking brand it is. But one with good aftermarket support makes Christmas and birthdays way more fun.

Another option, you say you're son is 11, I don't know how big he is, however there is something else to think about. If you're thinking PRS for him, AND IF you reload, I would seriously consider a 6mm variant, and I personally would go .243 Win because of component availability. You can handload minimum until he gets more recoil savy, and as he grows start loading accordingly. My oldest is also 11 and has just about outgrown the 223, he wants more. Can a good 223 do about the same as a 6mm at short and medium ranges?...sure it can. But as he grows and gets bigger the 6mm has a wider operational range. As far as recoil sensitivity, that can ruin a child, but again you can handload a 6mm that virtually mimics the recoil of a fast 223.

 

[jlow]

The Tikka T3X predator .223 is an excellent choice since it has a 23.75" barrel, at 1:8 twist, and the hammer forge barrel is a shooter. Excellent trigger too. The only disadvantage for you is it is not in a chassis that allows adjustable LOP and cheek. But the problem here is you are asking a lot and your price point is not reasonable for what you are looking for.

 

[MarkCO]

Ok, thanks. Seems like every option, once I gather all the parts are pushing $900-$1,000.

I can buy a Mossberg MVP from my local Cabela's right now with everything (brake, MDT chassis, grip, bipod) for $1,040 but I know very little about Mossberg rifles.

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I have an MVP, a few of the Ruger Americans, and a Savage .223 bolt in the safe. The benefit of the MVP is that it uses AR15 mags, but they are sloppy and not as accurate as the RA. When we shoot Prairie Dogs, the MVP is the 100-300 yard gun, then we go to the Ruger American out to about 500. At the 600 yard line, they go maybe 30% hit with the MVP on a 12" plate, 80-90% with the Ruger. Yes, they miss due to technique, but that is a pretty big difference. On a budget build for the boys, I was not wanting to rebarrel.

I plan on dropping mine into a Boyd's Pro Varmint once my now 13 year old gets a little bigger. My 15 year old just pops a slip on recoil pad on it now.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm just curious, what are you doing with an 8 twist that can't be done with a 9? I have a CZ that's only 9 and it does fine with 75 hpbts and similar, but a Berger 70 VLD has as good as or better BC than the 77s and 75s. Then there's the Nolser RDFs too. What elevation are you at? Thinner air requires less twist.

I don't want to be on the ragged edge of stability with 75-80gr bullets in a 9" twist. I'm only at 800' ASL too. The rifle I have in mind is for a small 7 year old learning to shoot further than he already shoots an AR, so no Bergers for him, more like ELD's and similar priced bullets. And my experience so far with the RDF's says not to put many eggs in that basket.
I thought about doing a Tikka varmint but he needs to learn positional shooting too, so it has to be a little gun.
Also researched the Mossberg MVP/LC/LR rifles last night. Not a single review claiming great accuracy, just OK at best.

 

[powdahound76]

You could do a day of messing around to make the ruger plastic stock a bit better as far as forend rigidity. It also comes with a shorter stock as I saw it at the LGS.

there used to be a thread about adding a couple carbon arrows to the forend with epoxy after making some room to stiffen it up.

Good luck whatever way you go. Let us know and post a range report

 

[bogeybrown]

I realize this is a 223 project, but Controlled Chaos is selling some Howa 6.5cm barreled actions (upgraded). Whether it remained a "budget" build would depend on the "budget" and how cheaply you could get into an acceptable stock/chassis. Just thought I'd throw it out:

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...6275626-wts-howa-24-barreled-actions-in-6-5cm

 

[earthquake]

^ thank you for that! I was thinking .223 mainly for recoil management, price of ammo etc. After looking at a lot of these guns, I think I need to go with an adjustable stock/chassis. I don't want to chop anything up and an adjustable can grow with him.

Thanks again for all the help. Lots to choose from!

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[bogeybrown]

^ thank you for that! I was thinking .223 mainly for recoil management, price of ammo etc. After looking at a lot of these guns, I think I need to go with an adjustable stock/chassis. I don't want to chop anything up and an adjustable can grow with him.

Thanks again for all the help. Lots to choose from!

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Its always fun helping our brothers spend their money, especially when it's to bring the next generation into the sport. After a multi-year buying spree, I'm now spending vicariously through you guys.

 

[Spock]

If you're opening up to non 223 look at the savage ba stealth in 6.5 creed as well. adjustable chassis, medium barrel threaded, accutrigger. Find them for under $1000. I might be picking one of these up for my other boy. I'm just not sure I like the butt stock but that is an easy and not to expensive upgrade.

 

[jLorenzo]

I would definitly go .223, this way they get the most shooting in for the money. Plus who doesnt love .223 anything?!?!?!?
Savage hog hunter or 12fv/fcv450-500$
Bell and carlson 300$
or
Boyds 150 or so with bottom medal
change barrels down the road

Howa barrelled action 499
Bell and carlson of your choice 3-400$

Tikka Varmint 6-800$

or pick a chassis for either and throw on some quality glass

IMO would not buy a ruger. super cheap feeling, this coming from a Savage fan.

 

[rookie7]

Food for thought:

Ruger American Predator .223 1/8" twist $400 online
Boyds Tacticool Stock $144 then cut LOP to fit
send stock to CDI for bottom metal for AICS mags $200

Thats $800 with shipping give or take a few.

 

[earthquake]

My LGS put them on sale under $400, couldn't resist after I checked it out, and so bought it. Thanks for all the help fellas! Range report after his B-day in mid May.

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[Rockdoc173]

I cut 1.2" off the stock, but you could certainly cut a lot more. M youngest was about 4'5" when he started shooting it. Not many .223s with 1:8 for that low of a price tag.

That's sort of what I was thinking, just trim the back of the stock. If you cut the back off of an American just bear in mind that stock is hollow so you'll have to fill it with foam or something similar. To go the chop chop route, a B & C (or other high value solid stocks) would be the better option because you don't have to worry about what to do with a gaping cavity in the back.

Kudos to you for bringing them up right bro.


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[MarkCO]

That's sort of what I was thinking, just trim the back of the stock. If you cut the back off of an American just bear in mind that stock is hollow so you'll have to fill it with foam or something similar. To go the chop chop route, a B & C (or other high value solid stocks) would be the better option because you don't have to worry about what to do with a gaping cavity in the back.

Kudos to you for bringing them up right bro.

I was able to chase the original screw holes, drill a new one in the buttpad and keep it a time only investment.

Bringing them up right...we try to do well in that full time job.

Looks good Earthquake. I am sure he will love it.