Rifle Scopes Budget Mil/Mil Scope

zeeohsixinc

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Apr 1, 2012
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I'm looking for a scope to put on a 22LR I am building for my wife and would like to get some insight on what is available. I know it is not a lot for a scope, but $200 is my max here. This is the scope I am looking to get, but I don't like that it is MOA/Mil. I would appreciate any other recommendations:
Primary Arms 4-16X44 Illuminated Mil Dot

<span style="text-decoration: underline">The following criteria are a must:</span>
$200 or Less
Mil Dot Reticle (The more complex the reticle the better)
Parallax Adjustment
10x power or more (Fixed or Adjustable)
Exposed Target Turrets

<span style="text-decoration: underline">The following criteria would be nice to have but not necessary:</span>
Mil Turrets (Highly Wanted)
30mm Tube
Side Focus Parallax
Front Focal Plane (I know it's a stretch for $200)

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Nate
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

I just saw an advertisement from The Sportsman's Guide for Weaver that fits all those criteria save the FFP for $197.It is on sale for today only .
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

Your only choice is to get a Bushnell 10x Mil Mil. It has a 1" tube, fixed parallax, and is a fixed powered scope.

It does not have a complex reticle, but learning to use mils is best to start of simple, with a mil dot type reticle, not anything complex.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/950843/...t-reticle-matte

I would save another 100 dollars or so and step up to the SWFA SS 10x Mil/Mil. It has adjustable parallax, and has a different mil reticle.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

I figured the Bushnell 3200 would come up. Since I will be putting it on a 22LR which will mostly shoot at 50 yards, the fixed 100 yard parallax just won't do. Also, the $250 price tag is a little high, I would just go up to an SWFA for an extra $50 if I was willing to spend $250 on the Bushnell, but we are really trying to keep it under $200. I don't think the Bushnell reputation is enough to make up for the lack of so many of the features and an additional $80, especially since the Primary Arms scopes get such good reviews.

Standard Mil reticles are fine, but a little outdated. I'm not looking for a horus reticle or anything, but something like SWFA's mil quad reticle or even simply .5 mil hash marks is a huge step up from standard mil dots.

Nate
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

Jesse-

I appreciate the recommendation. That is one of those Kaspa made scopes with the Weaver name on it. It is MOA/Mil as well. The reviews seem to be better on the Primary Arms scope, as well as the additional magnification and $50 price difference (non-buyers club price - $219.97).

Nate

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse1973</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just saw an advertisement from The Sportsman's Guide for Weaver that fits all those criteria save the FFP for $197.It is on sale for today only .
</div></div>
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

keep in mind a scope with exposed turrets that doesnt track is worthless. whats the point of a scope that adjusts easily if you dont know what the click did.

i understand having a budget, but when you limit the price you also have to look at features to limit
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope


On a budget scope I go for KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Less parts the less that can break.

Personally I shoot the SS series from SWFA and the Bushnell 10x Mil/Mil from Midway.

I destroy anything less quickly...
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

Not the answer your looking for but....
Sounds like when you get the 200 scope your going to want for more.
Spending another 100 is going to provide u with much more enjoyment.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

the 3200 is 199.00 every other month on sale. vortex has a few midway exclusive mil/mil scopes. i looked and looked since i wanted to conver everything to mil/mil and not break my bank. besides the bushnell, weaver and vortex, there is falcon and millett in the under 300-400 market. so far, midway is showing the most aggressive stance with their "exclusives" in mil/mil. if SS has a decent cost and mil/mil in a 10X that would be nice as the mil/moa is really popular. hard slot to fill, not a lot to choose from.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The easy answer is the Mueller All Purpose Tactical </div></div>

Thanks for giving me a recommendation that actually meets what I am looking for. The Mueller 4.5-14x40 APT looks like something to consider. It's not Mil/Mil but neither is the Primary Arms.

The differences I have noticed are the Mueller is Objective Focus vs Side Focus on the PA. Mueller is a little less magnification and no illumination. Besides that they are about the same, cost difference is negligeable. Does anyone have any insight on which scope is better?

Just to get it out there, I am by no means 'new' to Mil/Mil scopes, or precision shooting. I am not looking for a scope to 'learn' on. Sometimes $200 is just all someone is willing to spend on a scope for a particular rifle, and I'm trying to figure out what is offered. I own several expensive scopes and fully understand what a $200 scope is going to be. I appreciate the responses, but I assure you, I am not going to bend on the $200 so it is a waste of time to reply with $300 or more scopes.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

I bought a Mueller 4.5-14x40 APT regret doing it. I had it on my .308 and would never hold zero for very long. Maybe 3 or 4 shots and it moves wherever it wanted to. Its going on my .22 for now and see what happens.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

I think that the Wotac on Sample List is the one I traded in a few weeks ago. If it is, it is the newest model (Gen 5), but the angle the picture is taken from you can not see the turrets well. They are red on half and white on the other half of each knob. If it is the one I traded in, it is a new in box replacement for one that broke. I decided to step up to the SS12x42 mil/mil and traded it in. I had it on a Ruger 10/22 and had bad luck with them. I had 3 different ones break on me (reticle would turn inside the scope). I have never mounted or shot the scope in question, so maybe the others were just a bad batch. I will say that Matt at Wonders Optics replaced my scope each time it broke. I hope this helps you.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

For all intents and purposes, a 10x or less scope DOES NOT need an adjustable parallax. You will have ZERO issues with parallax using the Bushnell fixed 10x at 50 yards...or even closer for that matter.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

I am confused why one would be dead set on a Mil/Mil scope for a cartridge that has a effective range of 150 yards.

Tasco makes some afordable Mil/MOA SFP scopes with A/O 2.5-10 for like $70. I dont think for the money it could be beat.

KISS applys here
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am confused why one would be dead set on a Mil/Mil scope for a cartridge that has a effective range of 150 yards.

Tasco makes some afordable Mil/MOA SFP scopes with A/O 2.5-10 for like $70. I dont think for the money it could be beat.

KISS applys here </div></div>

True - if you are using the weapon for it's intended purpose a good mil reticle is all you need.

However, it's funny and fun to shoot 22LR pop guns out beyond 150. They drop like a rock so it's like shooting a high velocity round 400-600 yards. If you have a good gun and match ammo you can get good accuracy out to 200+ if you properly range and do your drop calcs right. It's good practice for your mil dots and/or turret techniques when you don't have time to drive to a long range practice location. The difference between 140 yards and 200 yards is a bunch of mils and you need to get the range within a couple of yards to be within half inch of aim point.
laugh.gif
Wind drift is multiplied too at these low velocities and low BCs so you need to do a good job gauging the wind to be accurate.



 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For all intents and purposes, a 10x or less scope DOES NOT need an adjustable parallax. You will have ZERO issues with parallax using the Bushnell fixed 10x at 50 yards...or even closer for that matter.</div></div>

That is certainly debateable, and in my opinion bad advice. There is a reason rimfire scopes are set at 50 yards parallax. I'm not trying to shoot minute of squirrel. This is a precision trainer for our precision 308s. Look through that Bushy 10x at 50 yards and move your head a little, the reticle WILL move on the target. This will only be amplified if I decide to shoot it at 25 yards.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am confused why one would be dead set on a Mil/Mil scope for a cartridge that has a effective range of 150 yards. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moadrifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True - if you are using the weapon for it's intended purpose a good mil reticle is all you need. </div></div>

Dead set? I believe the words I used were "nice to have but not necessary". Secondly, why would the max range of the cartridge have anything to do with whether a mil/mil is useful. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. My 22LR will drop 4.7 mils from a 50 yards zero at 150 yards, which by the way is certainly not max effective range of a 22LR. That is the same drop as my 308 at 600 yards. So if it is practical to have a mil/mil scope for a 308 at 600 yards then it is equally as practical for a 22LR at 150. Ok sure, I can hold over 4.7 mils, but what about when I get to 250 yards, thats a 10.8 mil drop from 50 yard zero. Now what do I do? I can hold 5 mils on my reticle, then I have 5.8 mils left that I have to convert to MOA before I can dial it. Do you see where the problem lies, and we haven't even started discussing windage or follow up shots.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zeeohsixinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This is a precision trainer for our precision 308s. </div></div>

With all due respect...the word "precision" serves very little purpose in a thread about sub $200 scopes.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zeeohsixinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For all intents and purposes, a 10x or less scope DOES NOT need an adjustable parallax. You will have ZERO issues with parallax using the Bushnell fixed 10x at 50 yards...or even closer for that matter.</div></div>

That is certainly debateable, and in my opinion bad advice. There is a reason rimfire scopes are set at 50 yards parallax. I'm not trying to shoot minute of squirrel. This is a precision trainer for our precision 308s. Look through that Bushy 10x at 50 yards and move your head a little, the reticle WILL move on the target. This will only be amplified if I decide to shoot it at 25 yards.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am confused why one would be dead set on a Mil/Mil scope for a cartridge that has a effective range of 150 yards. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moadrifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True - if you are using the weapon for it's intended purpose a good mil reticle is all you need. </div></div>

Dead set? I believe the words I used were "nice to have but not necessary". Secondly, why would the max range of the cartridge have anything to do with whether a mil/mil is useful. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. My 22LR will drop 4.7 mils from a 50 yards zero at 150 yards, which by the way is certainly not max effective range of a 22LR. That is the same drop as my 308 at 600 yards. So if it is practical to have a mil/mil scope for a 308 at 600 yards then it is equally as practical for a 22LR at 150. Ok sure, I can hold over 4.7 mils, but what about when I get to 250 yards, thats a 10.8 mil drop from 50 yard zero. Now what do I do? I can hold 5 mils on my reticle, then I have 5.8 mils left that I have to convert to MOA before I can dial it. Do you see where the problem lies, and we haven't even started discussing windage or follow up shots. </div></div>

Hey common - why did you cite the first part of my post and not the second
wink.gif
? At the risk of getting on the wrong side of the pros around here who might have really long ranges close by, I'm with you on how much fun it is to "lob" 22LRs out to 200 and beyond. Takes some good skill especially in a wind and IMHO this experience running as fast as possible through a multi-target distance course with one of these pop guns translates to longer distance/higher velocity. You don't have to find 2,000 acres to do it in and it's a wonderful way to teach a young shooter or a brand new shooter how to holdover and use turrets! Here's the rest of my post that you didn't cite:

"However, it's funny and fun to shoot 22LR pop guns out beyond 150. They drop like a rock so it's like shooting a high velocity round 400-600 yards. If you have a good gun and match ammo you can get good accuracy out to 200+ if you properly range and do your drop calcs right. It's good practice for your mil dots and/or turret techniques when you don't have time to drive to a long range practice location. The difference between 140 yards and 200 yards is a bunch of mils and you need to get the range within a couple of yards to be within half inch of aim point. laugh Wind drift is multiplied too at these low velocities and low BCs so you need to do a good job gauging the wind to be accurate."

Having said this, I agree with 19Scout77 - you need accurate and repeatable turrets for this job too and your budget is below what's needed to get even decent turrets. IMO you should save up a little more lunch money if you want to go past the distance a hold-over scope will reach. If you want to stay in your budget - get a mil reticle scope with as much holdover as possible.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

Moadrifter - I meant no disrespect citing only the first part. That was the part I was disagreeing with, the rest I completely agree with.

It appears that I will have to break the mold here and try out a Primary Arms scope for myself. Everyone I have talked to that has used them seems to be happy with turret repeatability and general quality for the money. We'll see how it goes. If I had a choice I would get another SWFA MIL/MIL which I am very happy with for the price, but I just can't talk the wife in to it.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zeeohsixinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moadrifter - I meant no disrespect citing only the first part. That was the part I was disagreeing with, the rest I completely agree with.
</div></div>

No worries - just kidding around. My guess is not to many of the hide experts lob little sticks like this, but I think it's a gas and I can take people (including my wife and girls) who would be terrified of a real rifle and without fail they end up loving it
smile.gif
10% of people want to take our firearm rights away and about 10% shoot somewhat regularly, so we need to win the hearts and minds of the other 80% - IMHO showing them a good time is the best way to do this.
 
Re: Budget Mil/Mil Scope

if a mil is a mil at any distance, you would or should still get some practical experience using one on a 22 for fun and extended stuff. its gotta help wind reads or something id think. midway has a great mil/mil exclusive selection. try there. they all rotate on sale so be patient