"Budget Rifle"

[hahco]

The "budget rifle" question comes up over and over again ... I thought I'd share what I have done.

This is a savage hawg hunter in .223. Rifle was right around $400. chunked the iron sights, adjusted the trigger down to 2.25 lbs, placed it in a B&C stock (drop-in fit). Total cost about $660? Mine's a .223 but you could do the same thing in .308:

It is shooting consistent 3/4" 5-shot groups @ 100 with no load development, sometimes a little better:

only downside is that the savage blind magazine sux. It's a bear to get it out of the original stock, transfer it over to the B&C, and have everything work correctly (at least in my example). and if you want detachable magazines, there's more work to be done.

Another option is a bone stock Remington 700P in .308 for $900ish:

3 shots at 100:

10 shots at 100:

Both of these need better optics than what I have on them, but that's a subject for a different thread ...

 

[6xcKY]

Are those reloads that you are using? I ask because the 10 shot with the .308 is spreading out pretty bad at 100. Not trying to rag on your build because like you said a budget is a budget, but I wouldn't just settle for that type of accuracy.

A 3 leaf clover like you shot with the 3-group is right, but they shouldn't open up like that with the more shots you shoot, unless its a bad load or you are rushing. Good start though.

 

[Rediculous]

I looked at this rifle for the same purpose and ended up with a 20" HOWA 1500 varminter in .308 with the fluted barrel. I haven't dropped it in a stock yet but at about $600 it shoots the lights out. Had it out to 600 yrds on a 6"x8" steel plate and it rang every time. Looks like a good set-up though.

 

[E. Bryant]

Are those reloads that you are using? I ask because the 10 shot with the .308 is spreading out pretty bad at 100. Not trying to rag on your build because like you said a budget is a budget, but I wouldn't just settle for that type of accuracy.

In my opinion, that is perfectly acceptable performance. Other than winning a local benchrest comp, what purpose would not be served by that level of accuracy from a practical tactical rifle?

 

[hahco]

In my opinion, that is perfectly acceptable performance. Other than winning a local benchrest comp, what purpose would not be served by that level of accuracy from a practical tactical rifle?

ha ... you never know what kind of responses you're gonna get on these threads. I was pretty happy with the 10 shot group, especially considering the brisk pace of the shooting. From what I've seen, most people think a 700P is typically a .5-.75 MOA shooter, OOTB. This one is par for the course. When it shoots outside those confines, it's my fault, not the gun's.

Also ... I have found the 3 shot 1-holer to be a regular occurrence with this gun ...

 

[6xcKY]

In my opinion, that is perfectly acceptable performance. Other than winning a local benchrest comp, what purpose would not be served by that level of accuracy from a practical tactical rifle?

Don't get me wrong, I said its good for a budget gun to start with. But that group that obviously measures over 1" that is opening up that largely with only 10 shots will continue to do so with more distance. Imagine the target at 200..Then 300..Then even 500. You'd be lucky to keep it all on a 10" plate.

But like the OP said, more times than a few, its the shooter, not the gun.

With a quality optic, load, and enough practice I'm sure that the gun is capable of a much tighter group.

 

[Runamuk]

Don't get me wrong, I said its good for a budget gun to start with. But that group that obviously measures over 1" that is opening up that largely with only 10 shots will continue to do so with more distance. Imagine the target at 200..Then 300..Then even 500. You'd be lucky to keep it all on a 10" plate.

But like the OP said, more times than a few, its the shooter, not the gun.

With a quality optic, load, and enough practice I'm sure that the gun is capable of a much tighter group.

What would you consider acceptable from a box stock rifle at 100yds shooting a 10 SHOT group from that shooting position? I think it's VERY good all things considered, I sure wish there were as many .5moa rifles out there as there are shooters

 

[BoilerUP]

That 223 Hog Hunter barrel should be at or very close to a half MOA barrel with 24.0gr Varget, a Hornady 75gr HPBT, CCI-200, and OAL somewhere in the 2.28-2.32" range (those barrels have VERY long throats).

 

[E. Bryant]

Don't get me wrong, I said its good for a budget gun to start with. But that group that obviously measures over 1" that is opening up that largely with only 10 shots will continue to do so with more distance. Imagine the target at 200..Then 300..Then even 500. You'd be lucky to keep it all on a 10" plate.

At 500 yards, with the proper elevation adjustment and wind calls, I'd almost guarantee that all 10 of those shots would have landed on a 10" plate (which is roughly a 2 MOA target at that distance).

The people who are fooling themselves are the ones who shoot a bunch of tiny 3-shot groups that: A) show group-to-group discrepancies in POA to POI, and 2) demonstrate occasional "fliers" that are deemed to be the fault of the user. If someone would take all those tiny groups and overlay them on the same target, they'd probably get something like the OP showed. There is nothing wrong with that; a 1MOA 10-shot group is going to get almost any job done that is likely to be performed with this type of rifle.

 

[hahco]

That 223 Hog Hunter barrel should be at or very close to a half MOA barrel with 24.0gr Varget, a Hornady 75gr HPBT, CCI-200, and OAL somewhere in the 2.28-2.32" range (those barrels have VERY long throats).

Thanks for that tip. These aren't even target bullets, they are the 64 g bonded noslers. I noticed the long throat as well. I was actually very pleased that this thing was throwing 5 into 3/4", repeatedly, without any load development at all. I thought about giving the 69 SMK's a try, but I'll order up those 75's as well.

edit: assuming I can find any 75's ...

 

[Travis S]

To me savage and howa have always been king of the budget rifles. Remington is king of the budget breaker though lol. So many add on items that are useful that seem to digg more and more into many a mans pocket!

 

[6xcKY]

You could be completely right. Its just in my experience when a load or rifle is shooting inside of a 1" square like that, touch each side of the square and moving all around it making a group so large that it moves from side to side and over an inch high that its either not a good load, a bad barrel, or a squirmy shooter.

The reason people shoot 3 shot groups is the same reason they shoot 5 and 10. Its also the same reason they shoot dot drills with 1/4" dots. Its because a .25moa, .5moa, 1moa, etc., is still going to be that, no matter how many rounds you put through the same hole. The more you shoot at it, doesn't mean the more give you get for error, a ragged hole is a ragged hole with 3 shots, or 20.

This is just all my opinion though, but if you watch for guys that actually shoot for accuracy, the picture, and the .223 would throw some red flags as to a "precision" gun.

To add: I know he said its a budget rifle. The majority of us have all started with them, and have eventually smith'd them into precision rifles, but this isn't a spot you want to stop at in this sport.

This is a 5 shot group you want to obtain, and if I had to guess, 5 more down the tube would not look much different...


FWIW not trying to ruffle feathers.

At 500 yards, with the proper elevation adjustment and wind calls, I'd almost guarantee that all 10 of those shots would have landed on a 10" plate (which is roughly a 2 MOA target at that distance).

The people who are fooling themselves are the ones who shoot a bunch of tiny 3-shot groups that: A) show group-to-group discrepancies in POA to POI, and 2) demonstrate occasional "fliers" that are deemed to be the fault of the user. If someone would take all those tiny groups and overlay them on the same target, they'd probably get something like the OP showed. There is nothing wrong with that; a 1MOA 10-shot group is going to get almost any job done that is likely to be performed with this type of rifle.

 

[liftedlimo]

A Rem 700 .308 26" 1/10 twist varmint with cheap scope and camo stock is $450 brand new. Sell the stock and scope, you are in it $400 bucks tops.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

A Rem 700 .308 26" 1/10 twist varmint with cheap scope and camo stock is $450 brand new. Sell the stock and scope, you are in it $400 bucks tops.

They're 1:12 not 1:10.

 

[liftedlimo]

My bad. Thanks for the correction.

 

[SporterII]

OP, Thanks for sharing. 10 at 100 looks like a winner. If money were on the table, I bet You could have shown a tad bit more. Not a 'selected' group I take it.
I had a Remington factory 223 that would perform well. They certainly are to be had. It is a crap shoot however. You won.

 

[hahco]

If money were on the table, I bet You could have shown a tad bit more. Not a 'selected' group I take it.

ha, no doubt. I had no idea the furor that the 10 shot group would cause, the post was really supposed to be about the hawg hunter being a halfway decent little shooter. I'll be sure to post the more select groups next time ...

 

[SporterII]

I think you posted pretty good stuff. Keep on keepin on.

 

[godofthunder]

Looks good! I was thinking about a hog hunter if I couldn't get my hands on a 10-TR.

 

[Scratchthejeepguy]

I think it's hard enough trying to get a nice 5 shot group, and keep the fliers at bay... That 10 shot group seems pretty good for a budget rifle to me for sure!

 

[Triple D]

700p with hand loads this past Sunday to confirm load/dope. I called a pull as one shot broke, but I can't say for sure which of the 5 it is. Easy to say it's the low and left, but I can't confirm that till I head back with that load. Splatter is from steel a few yards left of the target.

It may be an anomaly, but I'm a believer in the 700p, despite the 1:12 twist.
RL15
178 amax
600yds
Group was shot during a 15rd string, so that's shots 11-15. First 10 were a different load that I used for ringing steel.

5 at 100, same load. 223 hole below the group

 

[E. Bryant]

I'll be sure to post the more select groups next time ...

I know that you're probably joking with this comment, but please don't post just those one-hole 3-shot groups, or else people start thinking that's the end-all-be-all of practical tactical rifle performance.

 

[hahco]

I know that you're probably joking with this comment, but please don't post just those one-hole 3-shot groups, or else people start thinking that's the end-all-be-all of practical tactical rifle performance.

it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. the 1-holers are fun to shoot and see, but I'm more impressed by a rifle that is still shooting sub-MOA even with a hot barrel after many shots fired