Rifle Scopes Budget scope

[Bigscoop]

I just got a new 308 for target shooting. Rem 700 tactical. Right now its topped with a diamondback tactical 4-12. Decent scope but only a 1 inch tube and its second focal plane. Been looking at the athlon midas tac 6-24, ares btr 2.5-15, Primary Arms Slx 3-18, bushnell forge 3-18, & vortex pst II 5-25. The forge is on sale for 499 from midway right now. Should I hop on it at this price or does this scope go on sale alot? Any other words good or bad bout any of the scopes mentioned I'd love to here them.
TIA

 

[Gee Kay]

I'd say buy once, cry once. Go the pst gen 2.

 

[Fourtyfive]

The only ones I have experience with are the Athlon Midas and the PA SLx.
I currently have a Midas tac 6-24 on my 308, and not much bad I can say about it other than the reticle can be a little too thin at times. Other than that everything is good from glass to turrets. The PA SLx 3-18 I had for 9 months and hated it. Couldn't sell it fast enough. I don't know if their GLx line is any better, but can't find any real reviews on them, just the youtube PR hype guys that get em for free.

 

[beetroot]

Buy once, cry once.
Optics are something you should by the best you can possibly afford.

I'd go the PST Gen 2, I have a 3-15 and had a 5-25 both are excellent scopes for the money.
I compared my 5-25 to a buddies Ares 2.5-15 and didn't think very highly of the Ares, glass and turrets were definitely worse than my PST.

 

[A-Rob]

I like Athlons and have had a couple of Ares BTRs and one ETR. The ETR is very nice but the cheapest new one I could find was $950. That being said, unless I could find a good price on a used ETR I'd go with the PSTII if I was in the market for another scope. The reviews seem solid, the customer service they provided to me on a broken Golden Eagle was excellent and if you shop around you can find one for an excellent price. Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to buy a new Vortex since there are very few downsides to buying used.

 

[Alabusa]

I really like my Midas Tac. I have no issues with the reticle, even in low light. It is on my 22-250 and sees a lot of use, hunting coyotes, early mornings and late afternoons.

 

[Cerwinski]

I own both the PST II and the Midas Tac. I like the Athlon better. That said I don't think you could go wrong with either of those.

 

[Bigscoop]

So the forge wouldn't be a good buy at that price? The only thing that worries me about the pst2 is the eyebox. I have a 4-16 hst and anything above 12 power the eyebox is horribly tight. I figured the pst's have same glass as all vipers and this problem is across all models. Maybe I'm wrong though?

 

[steve123]

In the scope world sometimes "A" scope just turns out very well. Midas TAC is definitely one of them! WAAAAY above it's price range.

And FYI, the turrets on the new Gen2 Ares BTR 4.5x27x50 are excellent! Very unlike the Gen1. I haven't even mounted it up on a rifle yet but I'll do that soon and give a initial report in February.

 

[Healy]

A scope that would make me cry would be a hensoldt or any other scope that’s upwards of 5k

 

[Gee Kay]

So the forge wouldn't be a good buy at that price? The only thing that worries me about the pst2 is the eyebox. I have a 4-16 hst and anything above 12 power the eyebox is horribly tight. I figured the pst's have same glass as all vipers and this problem is across all models. Maybe I'm wrong though?

Jump into a store and evaluate the scopes you've listen for yourself to pick the one that's the least picky with eye relief and which is the best to your eyes.

I really hate picking a woman on the internet's cause she can turn out to be tototally different to the picture she uses in her profile if I can use that analogy.

 

[Longranger1]

Check out the deal on this Bushnell Elite:

Product Description

Product Description | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

 

[Bigscoop]

Dont know much about that scope but looks like a good deal as well. I will be able to take a look at the bushnells and vortex at the local cabelas but the athlon's closest dealer is about an hour from me

 

[EddieE]

In the scope world sometimes "A" scope just turns out very well. Midas TAC is definitely one of them! WAAAAY above it's price range.

And FYI, the turrets on the new Gen2 Ares BTR 4.5x27x50 are excellent! Very unlike the Gen1. I haven't even mounted it up on a rifle yet but I'll do that soon and give a initial report in February.

Not sure about the Gen1 BTR. I bought a Gen2 Ares BTR and turret feel was nowhere near as nice as my PST G2. Maybe I got a lemon. Sold the Ares and bought another PST G2. They are about the same price (and if you look really hard, you can get a new PST G2 for less than $800), not sure why anyone would go Athlon Ares BTR over the PST G2 when they are so close in price. OP, if you can pick up the Ares BTR 4.5-27x on a good sale (Midway was selling them for $425 a few months ago), then its the best scope you can get for $425. Just understand the turrets will be soft. That was a deal breaker for me.

I tried the Athlon hoping it would knock my socks off...my socks were firmly planted on my feet.

 

[beetroot]

So the forge wouldn't be a good buy at that price? The only thing that worries me about the pst2 is the eyebox. I have a 4-16 hst and anything above 12 power the eyebox is horribly tight. I figured the pst's have same glass as all vipers and this problem is across all models. Maybe I'm wrong though?

I too had a HST 4-16, the PST Gen2 is worlds apart.
The eyebox is extremely forgiving and it has a huge FOV, the sight picture can get a little dim above 20x in low light but in normal lighting conditions the glass is excellent.

 

[Longranger1]

Man you really got to jump all over this deal. This is the illuminated reticle version of that Bushnell:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/fs-lnib-3-12-lrtsi.6976661/

 

[steve123]

Not sure about the Gen1 BTR. I bought a Gen2 Ares BTR and turret feel was nowhere near as nice as my PST G2. Maybe I got a lemon. Sold the Ares and bought another PST G2. They are about the same price (and if you look really hard, you can get a new PST G2 for less than $800), not sure why anyone would go Athlon Ares BTR over the PST G2 when they are so close in price. OP, if you can pick up the Ares BTR 2.4-27x on a good sale (Midway was selling them for $425 a few months ago), then its the best scope you can get for $425. Just understand the turrets will be soft. That was a deal breaker for me.

I tried the Athlon hoping it would knock my socks off...my socks were firmly planted on my feet.

That's very odd, the turrets on my Ares G2 feels just like the Midas TAC's, which to me are way more distinct than a PSTG2???

I haven't owned a PSTG2 but have been behind some. Every scope has it's pluses and minuses but I like the form factor of length and weight of the Ares, and prefer the all .2 reticle by a huge amount.

 

[EddieE]

That's very odd, the turrets on my Ares G2 feels just like the Midas TAC's, which to me are way more distinct than a PSTG2???

I haven't owned a PSTG2 but have been behind some. Every scope has it's pluses and minuses but I like the form factor of length and weight of the Ares, and prefer the all .2 reticle by a huge amount.

Don't know. I could have got an out of spec scope.

 

[A-Rob]

Don't know. I could have got an out of spec scope.

I think there were 2 versions of "gen 1", the one with set stews in the turrets and the revision with a single screw turret with small improvements to the turret. Now there is the real Gen 2, which is supposed to have the same turrets as the TAC and ETR.

 

[EddieE]

I think there were 2 versions of "gen 1", the one with set stews in the turrets and the revision with a single screw turret with small improvements to the turret. Now there is the real Gen 2, which is supposed to have the same turrets as the TAC and ETR.

I don't know, never got that far to take the cover off and see how many set screws it had. The turret cover was a single coin slot.

I probably would have kept the scope as it sits on a gun that doesn't get shot much, but I found out that I like MOA better than Mil.

 

[Vamike9]

I just got a new 308 for target shooting. Rem 700 tactical. Right now its topped with a diamondback tactical 4-12. Decent scope but only a 1 inch tube and its second focal plane. Been looking at the athlon midas tac 6-24, ares btr 2.5-15, Primary Arms Slx 3-18, bushnell forge 3-18, & vortex pst II 5-25. The forge is on sale for 499 from midway right now. Should I hop on it at this price or does this scope go on sale alot? Any other words good or bad bout any of the scopes mentioned I'd love to here them.
TIA

I own and test many low-high end optics.

Best budget optic that tracks well and has great glass is the

Nikon Black FX1000 FFP Illuminated 6-24×50mm

Don't be afraid to buy used in like new off of here, most times they are under $500 Shipped.

 

[EddieE]

I own and test many low-high end optics.

Best budget optic that tracks well and has great glass is the

Nikon Black FX1000 FFP Illuminated 6-24×50mm

Don't be afraid to buy used in like new off of here, most times they are under $500 Shipped.

Looks like a nice scope with good reviews. I would consider it if looking for another scope. Like the 90 MOA internal travel and the zero stops. Checks off many boxes that most shooters are looking for.

 

[BallisticMD]

I just got a new 308 for target shooting. Rem 700 tactical. Right now its topped with a diamondback tactical 4-12. Decent scope but only a 1 inch tube and its second focal plane. Been looking at the athlon midas tac 6-24, ares btr 2.5-15, Primary Arms Slx 3-18, bushnell forge 3-18, & vortex pst II 5-25. The forge is on sale for 499 from midway right now. Should I hop on it at this price or does this scope go on sale alot? Any other words good or bad bout any of the scopes mentioned I'd love to here them.
TIA

I'm a new member to the forum even though I've been lurking on the sidelines for years on this and other forums.

A little about my background in precision shooting. I've been shooting long range (500 yards and beyond) for nearly 60 years. I started as a boy, on a 10,000 acre wheat and cattle ranch shooting varmints for bounty.

I am a gunsmith trained at Lassen college and mentored before that by multiple "old school" gunsmiths.

My knowledge of scopes is through first hand use and experimentation. Over the years, I've had numerous "favorites" from Tasco, Millett, NightForce, Leopold, and Vortex.

I've settled for the time being on Vortex. When the Strike Eagle 4-24x50 came out I purchased one on the initial "intro" deal at $199. I now own 6 of them. I've replaced my NightForce and PST II scopes with this Strike Eagle. Reasons: excellent box tests, ladder tests, repeatability, and light gathering capabilities. And if course Vortex company support has been stellar!

What I've found is the scope allows me to find targets located in shadows very quickly. One of the 6 did have clarity issues at max power. I sent it back to Vortex and 5 days later had a satisfactory replacement. I love the EBR-4 reticle... it works for me. I'd highly recommend you give this $499 scope a try. I bought the last one at Europtic for $299 a couple of weeks ago.

My top performer is a Savage 12 Long range hunter with a Varmint Contour 26" barrel in 6.5x284 Norma. I'm getting just under 1/2 MOA out to 1,300 yards with 147gr pill with a muzzle velocity of 3,050 fps. Last week, I got a headshot on a coyote at 926 yards measured distance. He was behind a boulder, with the only thing showing was his head. Conditions 3 mph left to right wind. Shot Dope: 77 clicks up, 5 clicks left. Strike point just in front of the ear... lights out.

I highly recommend this bargain scope. I don't care what level shooter you are, this scope outperforms scopes costing 8-10 times the price.

 

[Bigscoop]

I'm a new member to the forum even though I've been lurking on the sidelines for years on this and other forums.

A little about my background in precision shooting. I've been shooting long range (500 yards and beyond) for nearly 60 years. I started as a boy, on a 10,000 acre wheat and cattle ranch shooting varmints for bounty.

I am a gunsmith trained at Lassen college and mentored before that by multiple "old school" gunsmiths.

My knowledge of scopes is through first hand use and experimentation. Over the years, I've had numerous "favorites" from Tasco, Millett, NightForce, Leopold, and Vortex.

I've settled for the time being on Vortex. When the Strike Eagle 4-24x50 came out I purchased one on the initial "intro" deal at $199. I now own 6 of them. I've replaced my NightForce and PST II scopes with this Strike Eagle. Reasons: excellent box tests, ladder tests, repeatability, and light gathering capabilities. And if course Vortex company support has been stellar!

What I've found is the scope allows me to find targets located in shadows very quickly. One of the 6 did have clarity issues at max power. I sent it back to Vortex and 5 days later had a satisfactory replacement. I love the EBR-4 reticle... it works for me. I'd highly recommend you give this $499 scope a try. I bought the last one at Europtic for $299 a couple of weeks ago.

My top performer is a Savage 12 Long range hunter with a Varmint Contour 26" barrel in 6.5x284 Norma. I'm getting just under 1/2 MOA out to 1,300 yards with 147gr pill with a muzzle velocity of 3,050 fps. Last week, I got a headshot on a coyote at 926 yards measured distance. He was behind a boulder, with the only thing showing was his head. Conditions 3 mph left to right wind. Shot Dope: 77 clicks up, 5 clicks left. Strike point just in front of the ear... lights out.

I highly recommend this bargain scope. I don't care what level shooter you are, this scope outperforms scopes costing 8-10 times the price.

Wow. I looked at one at a shooting range and didnt care for it, but it was also in a very small shop. I'll have to take another look. A guy I worked with has 2 in the 3-18 strike eagle. I'll have to get with him and shoot some. A scope that just sparked my interest via to much youtube is the arken ep4 4-16. All reviews seem stellar on that one

 

[Bigscoop]

I own and test many low-high end optics.

Best budget optic that tracks well and has great glass is the

Nikon Black FX1000 FFP Illuminated 6-24×50mm

Don't be afraid to buy used in like new off of here, most times they are under $500 Shipped.

Man I just took a look at the 4-16 model of that at bass pro today. Brightness and clarity seemed great. Better then the pst2. Just sucks that nikon is getting out of the business. Idk if that should be a deal breaker for me or not

 

[Vamike9]

Man I just took a look at the 4-16 model of that at bass pro today. Brightness and clarity seemed great. Better then the pst2. Just sucks that nikon is getting out of the business. Idk if that should be a deal breaker for me or not

I had no idea about Nikon getting out of the shooting/hunting market?
When or where did you hear about that?
Thanks for the info in advance.

 

[Vamike9]

Ok just seen where they are not continuing their line of scopes but still making range finders, spotting scopes and such
Wonder how they are going to approach their lifetime warranty from previous buyers?

 

[BallisticMD]

I tried the Nikon FX1000 and it performs the basic box test relatively well. Shooting 6 moa increments for impacts at center, 6" left, 6" high left, 6" high center, and so on until you've shot a box then returned to center to complete the process.

For me, it failed the 40 moa ladder test miserably. Once I exceeded 15 moa, it did not get close to expected results and on the way back to zero, impacts were nowhere near initial shots at same settings. For typical hunting distances, it would be fine, but not for long range use.

For clarity, here's how I do ladder tests on new scopes.

Mount 5' long butcher paper on target stand. Using carpenter's level, draw vertical line top to bottom with large black marker.

Place 1/2" target paster near bottom of the line. Draw horizontal hash marks every 5" starting at target paster.

Starting at scope 100 yd zero, I fire a shot then increment setting 5 moa and shoot again, repeating the process until I've dialed 40 moa. Then, I reverse that process, backing the setting down 5 moa before each shot until I'm back at zero.

This process tells me how well the scope tracks to expected impacts. It also tells me how true-to-level the scope has been mounted on the action.

I've seldom had scopes fail miserably but, some of the economy scopes frequently get poor performance starting around 15 to 20 moa.

I hope this helps newer shooters and apologize if this has already been covered in previous posts.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Ok just seen where they are not continuing their line of scopes but still making range finders, spotting scopes and such
Wonder how they are going to approach their lifetime warranty from previous buyers?

If you're the original owner & if you have the original receipt from an authorized Nikon dealer they will honor it. If they cannot repair and have nothing to replace it with they will issue a monetary voucher good for another Nikon product

 

[Bigscoop]

If you're the original owner & if you have the original receipt from an authorized Nikon dealer they will honor it. If they cannot repair and have nothing to replace it with they will issue a monetary voucher good for another Nikon product

That would be unfortunate if you sent a $700 scope in and they couldn't fix it so they send you a voucher for any other product. Sure you can get some nice bino's or rangefinder but then you'd still have to shell out for another scope. That being said, atleast they say they will still warranty them if they can. Better then them just telling everyone they are on their own.

 

[Vamike9]

Not sure about the future?
Yet, I know in the past I bought a Nikon Black FX1000 that someone had messed up from misuse. Nikon sent me a brand new replacement after receiving the bad one.

What's bad is they are actually very good optics in the black line.

 

[Bigscoop]

Not sure about the future?
Yet, I know in the past I bought a Nikon Black FX1000 that someone had messed up from misuse. Nikon sent me a brand new replacement after receiving the bad one.

What's bad is they are actually very good optics in the black line.

That's what I thought when I checked out the one in BPS today. It's a shame they wont be made anymore. I wonder why they decided to get out.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I ran the Forge 3-18 on my NRL22 rifle for a while, and at $499 for FFP, it's a screaming deal for your 308 - if you can live with MOA over MIL. I prefer MIL, but not enough to pay the price difference right now.

If you want MIL, keep an eye on the Bushnell website and pick up the Match Pro when they come back in stock soon. You give up some adjustment range, throw lever, and zero stop - but get arguably better turrets, illumination, and MIL adjustments/reticle. With a 20MOA rail, you're still going to have enough to get out to 1k with your 308 and a Match Pro.

 

[SuperBoot]

Surprised no one has mentioned the XTR II. Fantastic scopes for the money and can be had new for 700'ish. Used can dip down into the 500 range.
FFP, 34 mil tube, Diverse reticles, solid easy zero stop, good glass, good turrets, etc, etc.

Gen 1 and 2 PST's can be had used for about the same if you wait on them.

edit: *Burris* XTR II

 

[Bigscoop]

I ran the Forge 3-18 on my NRL22 rifle for a while, and at $499 for FFP, it's a screaming deal for your 308 - if you can live with MOA over MIL. I prefer MIL, but not enough to pay the price difference right now.

If you want MIL, keep an eye on the Bushnell website and pick up the Match Pro when they come back in stock soon. You give up some adjustment range, throw lever, and zero stop - but get arguably better turrets, illumination, and MIL adjustments/reticle. With a 20MOA rail, you're still going to have enough to get out to 1k with your 308 and a Match Pro.

How is it behind the forge? Is the eyebox picky?

 

[C4N4DIAN]

I'd say buy once, cry once. Go the pst gen 2.

i second

 

[KnightOfNee]

+1 Athlon, I got an Ares 2.5-15 with gen 2 turrets, Ares 4.5-27 gen 1 turrets, Cronus, none of which have "Mushy turrets" most people that complain about any of that clean off some of the grease off the o-rings. I do have a Gen1 midas though, Turrets are not mushy, they are though a little easier to turn then all the other scopes.

One of my Brother's has an Athlon Agos, those Turrets have some slop though.
I used to own a Athlon Talos and it was almost the same scope as the Primary arms with slightly better glass, the glass was on par with a standard Vortex Viper none pst.., the body looked exactly the same to the primary arms that I used to have, same turret feel aswell.


People get all over enamored with how loud Turrets click is, if they keep it up, the manufactures are just going to start putting in cheap ,hokey turret clicking devises and passing them off as "Good Tactile turrets!" even though the internals can be junk.

What counts is how well it tracks and is true to what it says it is adjusted to. and how well it holds zero when taking a jolt.

 

[Vamike9]

I am a huge Vortex fan!
But... if it is the ARES ETR vs the PST 2, well I'm leaning more toward the Athlon because of their superb tracking that's more commonly found in the high end optics.

However given the chance to buy a Razor at the same price, well I'd go Gen2 Razor all day!
The Vortex reticles are far better than what I see in Athlon right now.

 

[Bigscoop]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't some of the athlon and vortex optics very similar to each other? The ones offered in pst2 and midas tac/ ares lines that is. With the floating center dot and floating crosshair and whatnot

 

[Vamike9]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't some of the athlon and vortex optics very similar to each other? The ones offered in pst2 and midas tac/ ares lines that is. With the floating center dot and floating crosshair and whatnot

Yes, they are similar, however I still prefer the way the ebr2c is designed a bit more.
Both are great options though.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

How is it behind the forge? Is the eyebox picky?

Not that I ever noticed, even in some of the goofy-assed positions I've shot in NRL22 matches.

 

[steve123]

Not sure about the Gen1 BTR. I bought a Gen2 Ares BTR and turret feel was nowhere near as nice as my PST G2. Maybe I got a lemon. Sold the Ares and bought another PST G2. They are about the same price (and if you look really hard, you can get a new PST G2 for less than $800), not sure why anyone would go Athlon Ares BTR over the PST G2 when they are so close in price. OP, if you can pick up the Ares BTR 4.5-27x on a good sale (Midway was selling them for $425 a few months ago), then its the best scope you can get for $425. Just understand the turrets will be soft. That was a deal breaker for me.

I tried the Athlon hoping it would knock my socks off...my socks were firmly planted on my feet.

Hey Eddie, I think I figured out where the confusion came from.

In the Ares BTR Gen1 scopes there were two versions, the 1st version had hex grub screws to tighten down and hold the turret, whereas the 2nd version had the coin slot top screw holding the turret on. Both had that somewhat mushy feel in the turrets. You likely have the 2nd version thinking it's the Gen2 but it's not.

Neither of those two are to be confused with the, new for 2019 Ares BTR ""Gen 2"" scopes, which have been much improved with stainless turret internals, etc, and have a super nice turret feel!!!

 

[steve123]

Surprised no one has mentioned the XTR II. Fantastic scopes for the money and can be had new for 700'ish. Used can dip down into the 500 range.
FFP, 34 mil tube, Diverse reticles, solid easy zero stop, "NOT SO GOOD" glass, good turrets, etc, etc.

Gen 1 and 2 PST's can be had used for about the same if you wait on them.

edit: *Burris* XTR II

Fixed it for you,

 

[steve123]

I think there were 2 versions of "gen 1", the one with set stews in the turrets and the revision with a single screw turret with small improvements to the turret. Now there is the real Gen 2, which is supposed to have the same turrets as the TAC and ETR.

Ha, if I'd just read one post down, I pretty much repeated your comments in my post.

 

[SuperBoot]

Fixed it for you,

I wouldn’t compare the glass to a Schmidt or something, but for 500 bucks I think it’s at least as good or better than the PST’s.
It doesn’t cut mirage very well, low light sucks, fishbowls a little, etc, etc, but that’s just part of the game with optics in that price range.

 

[Bigscoop]

I wouldn’t compare the glass to a Schmidt or something, but for 500 bucks I think it’s at least as good or better than the PST’s.
It doesn’t cut mirage very well, low light sucks, fishbowls a little, etc, etc, but that’s just part of the game with optics in that price range.

Aren't those normally around 1500$ scope

 

[SuperBoot]

Aren't those normally around 1500$ scope

That’s what MSRP was for them, but with the XTR III coming out there’s a lot of places trying to clear stock.
Burris has the same no questions warranty that Vortex has also.

 

[Bigscoop]

I've heard that. How long has it been like that

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Burris, Steiner, Athlon, Bushnell, GPO and Vortex all have lifetime no fault warranties

 

[Bigscoop]

Burris, Steiner, Athlon, Bushnell, GPO and Vortex all have lifetime no fault warranties

GPO? Never heard of them