budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

[squirrel_slayer]

i'm trying to find a solution to my shooting woe's. these last few years have been rough financially and the gun safe took the biggest hit. now things are starting to stabilize and rather than just buying something to see if I like it I need to be a little more methodical. I got into a caliber frenzy when I started loading and went overboard. long story short had 5-10 bullet weights per caliber and tons of different powders. spent more time developing and changing scope adjustments than actually learning shooting skills.

I have been enjoying the long range shooting and want to get serious. right now I shoot my mkII 22lr consistantly at 200-250yds. my next rifle up is a .308 but its a gas gun with only a 16" barrel and at best it's a 3/4moa rifle. not to mention a powder hog.

i've read about long throated .223's and .223ai and i'm really likeing what I see. I have thousands of .223 brass, and small rifle primers so I feel it necessary to stay with that parent case. and I've seen that the 75gr a-max is the bullet of choice and what I plan on building the rifle around.

....but I have also tinkered with quickload and essentially a 6mm tcu with a long throat also sounds appealing using a 105gr a-max.

I plan on using a savage action, 22-24" barrel is fine by me, and one idea I do have floating around is buying my own reamer and getting it piloted, as well as buying bushing dies. this will leave the option of making say a .257 hunting barrel for the kids once their old enough to hunt deer. just machine a new barrel, buy a throat reamer, change bushings in the die and essentially have a very different rifle for little money.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

You wouldn't regret a Criterion 223AI barrel; I've got a 22" 1:7 light varmint on order and plan to shoot the 80gr A-Max. From what I've seen, 2900fps should be easily achievable.

That said, the 6TCU pushing a 107SMK @ 2700fps from is pretty compelling...

 

[Cegorach]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

223 ai is wonderfully cheap and easy to shoot, plus fire forming and factory fodder group beautifully as well.

The only reason I would go with a straight 223 bolt gun again would be for f/tr.

 

[steve123]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

Haha, I know what you mean. I've had so many guns and different cartridges that I got tired of it. Sold a bunch of them over the years and bought a few nice ones to hopefully keep. I still like wildcat cartridges though but only have 3 now. All 3 do there job very well.

Single loading or repeater?

If you are shooting inside of 500Y a long throated 223 with 75's would be fine. If shooting farther often the 6TCU would be better suited to the task.

For reference I have a 6mmART40/105 Amax that I slowed down to 2740 fps(was at 2875 fps). I'm surprised how well it does in the wind even at the slower velocity.

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

single shot is fine by me. I plan on keeping the stock, stock in case I ever decide on a .257 varient (hear the 80gr ttsx is a great deer pill) and that would need to be a repeater.

so the 105 Amax @ 2740 does pretty well for you? just punched the numbers into quickload and to my suprise the 75gr A-max @ 3050 gets the nod for both elevation and windage to 1000yds over a 105gr Amax @ 2700. but that on paper I really expected the 105 to kill the 75 for windage. do you have any first hand experience?

I do plan to work out to the 1000yd mark. I'm only limited to my ability and cartridge as to how far I can shoot. I have lots of great terrain just a 20-40min drive away.

 

[steve123]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

Are you thinking of the 75Amax out of a 223AI or strait 223? I'm guessing 223AI because 3050 fps is pushing it for 223. Yes those are good numbers for drop and drift at 3050 fps. I was surprised when I went to see for my self the difference. BTW at JBM make sure you put "none" in the bullet space and the proper BC of .435 for the 75 Amax and .5 for the 105 Amax. I got .1 mil less wind for the 105 Amax but less drop for the 223AI. If you use that new .545 BC 105 grain hybrid at 2700 fps there is .4 mil less wind than the 223AI which is substantial.

After thinking about it the only real advantage I could see for the 6TCU then is you wouldn't have to build a 25 cal later. Also probably really good barrel life I bet.

I use the 75HPBT out of a short AR-15 so I don't have any experience with the 75Amax out of a long barreled bolt gun. The 105 at 2740 fps has got my 223 AR beat by a good margin in the wind for sure.

 

[RyanScott]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

75s are 20+% cheaper.

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

Yes .223ai. Based off results here that's about the average velocity from a 22" tube with it throated to get the 75gr a-max 2.45+"s. I think that's the ticket as the hybrid is more than id like to spend. Another plus I can see is using standard .223 loads and even blue dot loads if I want to use it on small game.......hmm sounds like I'm heading back to my old ways. I swear its a disease!

 

[Nortex]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

The 6TCU is fun in a bolt gun that is very efficient for size. A friend that I shoot with has a couple but his are twisted and throated for the 55-80gr Nosler BT's (more of a hunting type gun) 55's are screaming and 80's are moving along too, devestating on varmints and pigs.

A down side to the TCU is forming brass not a huge pain but some people consider it as such. When forming brass it seems people either load 6x45 and just shoot it or like we did use a fast pistol/shotgun powder (no bullet) with a piece of a Qtip in case neck to keep powder in and fire case with barrel pointing straight up. I wouldn't recommend the second method if you are using a public range though.

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

I definitly had my heart set on the 6tcu but throated for the 105gr a-max, but unless I can push it faster than 2700 by a substantial amount it looks like the 75gr a-max at 3050 offers the same wind drift with less drop as well as less cost. kinda hard to not like that.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

I would just forget building a crappy savage and buy a Tikka T3. They're $500-650 depending on whether you get blued or SS, 1:8 twist and they shoot damn nice. Spend another $100 to have it reamed out to 223AI and you have yourself a hell of a rifle for not a lot of money. It will probably shoot better than a criterion too.

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would just forget building a crappy savage and buy a Tikka T3. They're $500-650 depending on whether you get blued or SS, 1:8 twist and they shoot damn nice. Spend another $100 to have it reamed out to 223AI and you have yourself a hell of a rifle for not a lot of money. It will probably shoot better than a criterion too. </div></div>

Interesting. What does mt stand for? I may stick with a savage anyways just for the switch barrel ability. after some long thinking I think a .223ai is the ticket for me. And a .25/.223 ackley or even a 7.62x40 throated for a longer coal for the kids hunting rifle. But who knows they may just want to hunt with the 300 blackout ar I built them.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

Ive got a 6TCU that I love! I'm shooting 95 SMK's at about 2950fps. This is a very fun gun to shoot and it's cheap to feed. Also, most events limit caliber and 6mm is typically the smallest allowed. If you plan on hunting or ringing steel you will need the extra energy over the little .224.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive got a 6TCU that I love! I'm shooting 95 SMK's at about 2950fps.</div></div>

Barrel length?

 

[leadbullet]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

if staying under 600yds, check out the .240 ruger, those little pill fly fast are accurate, recoil is nonexistant and barrel life excellent, deadly on small critters up to coyotes and cheap to load for.
I have a 24incher that stays on a 5X7 inch plate at 550 yds all day with 32 and 40 gr.
hope this helps.

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

snkbit I was all game for the 6mm tcu but either my calculator is way off or the 75gr a-max @ 3050 still edge's that smk in the elevation dept and is right on it's heels for windage. cost to shoot is a big factor in this project. and the smk's are quite a bit more expensive than the a-max's. seem's like it's the magic bullet in the small bore?

attherange I considered the 20 practical (.223 brass is one of my design limitations) but I want to be able to practice to the 1k mark as well.

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

Maybe find a Tikka T3 Scout in a .223 and try it out? I've got one and it shoots the Light Out to 500 Yrds. It's a freaken dream to shoot!

 

[SnkBit]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive got a 6TCU that I love! I'm shooting 95 SMK's at about 2950fps.</div></div>

Barrel length? </div></div>

22"

 

[JByrd]

Re: budget shooter .223 /ai, or 6mm varient?

223 hands down,easy decision.