Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

[eracer]

First, I believe I've been bitten by the LR bug. I hit my first plates at 550 meters with my 6.5G AR-15 and really enjoyed it (never having hit anything beyond 300 before...)

I know the Grendel is 'capable' of getting to 1K, but I also have a couple of options:

1. I have a Remington Model 7 chambered in 7mm SAUM that shoots 1 MOA with factory ammo. It's a hunting rifle. I could do the new stock, bedding, trigger, chamber spec, etc. (and learn to reload - already planned) to improve the accuracy. (Or is that factory barrel going to limit the performance too much.)

2. Or I could spend the coin for a new .300 WSM (or .308) build that will do 1/2 MOA out of the box with good factory ammo.

I don't have a .308 gun yet, if that matters to the discussion. If I re-stock the 7mm SAUM, I could throw a .308 barreled action into the Mod 7 stock, just to have a .308 in my collection, and replace the 7mm SAUM as a hunting rifle.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

There is no rule of course that says you have to learn long range on a 308. Some reasons that people do just that are:
It has fairly light recoil that most people can deal with easily
It is one of the most well known chambering on the planet, therefore it is easy to find components and reloading info for
Easy to reload for

All that being said, the 7 mm you have is a far more capable long range chambering. It will be more expensive to shoot, and perhaps because of recoil more difficult to focus on the fundamentals of marksmanship, but i don't see why you couldn't learn on that. If you feel the recoil or muzzle blast is hindering you in some way you could always step back to the 308, or one of the 6.5s, or the .243

 

[jbailey]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

do you reload?
SAUM is a cartridge that best serves those that reload their own ammo, especially if your objective is long-range precision. ES is a killer as you get further and further out.

 

[Engine 22]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

I'd suggest splitting the difference and looking at the 7WSM. It looks like brass for the 7SAUM is scarce. The 7WSM is one hell of a hunting round and carries it's own in comps as well.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

I'd stick with the 7 Saum if I were you. If you plan on going to competitions, a tailor built 7 saum rig will be very competitive. The last thought in the world should be cost as there is almost nothing about long range shooting that's cheap.

 

[roggom]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

The main question is what you want to do with your new LR rifle. If you want to shoot paper, steel, hunt, or all three.

The 7 is a nice compact rifle, and the 7 SAUM will reach out and touch, it is not designed for LR shooting ( in excess). The barrel is thin and after a few shots you will have to wait for it to cool.

Most LR rifles have at least a heavy #3 contour barrel, this helps with rigidity and also it can handle a few rounds down the barrel before the heat really sinks in.

As for caliber, the 7mm in the 168 range are ballistically superior to their 30 cal counterparts. Not to say the 300 can not out reach the 7mm mag, just at the cost of higher weight bullets and more recoil. If you have a can , then not really an issue.

So if you want to hit steel, there are many 308's that will take you there. LTR, 5R, 700P, SPS AAC-SD.

If you plan to do long range hunting( beyond 500Y), take a look at the GA Precision Non-typical http://gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2012-custom-rifles/ga-precision-non-typical.html as a sort of benchmark for your design. In 7mm Mag, 7WSM, or even the 7 SAUM.

Now, I am not sure if you plan to hunt that far but right or wrong there is a whole market around long range hunting.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

For starters I like the .308, but, for the argument, I just sold my 300wsm to build a 7saum.

 

[BGE541]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

I would make a list of what you would want in a "dream" LR rifle, then build it. Dont cut corners or cheap out, even if it take you longer to get the $$$ it will ensure your not chasing your tail in the future. 7 SAUM and a 26" barrel will serve you well... If you dont reload, might want to learn as well.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

If you don't reload, you need to start reloading before you can conclude anything about the accuracy of your rifle, and long before you should be expanding into some custom rifle.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

Just re-barrel your hunting rifle with a good match barrel and build up that rifle. The 7mm SAUM shines with the 180's going about 2950-3050 fps. We have had good luck with a 1-8.5" twist barrel.

 

[FCS]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

Get a custom action that is set up for longer OAL: Surgeon 591, Bighorn, Badger M2008, Stiller AW, etc.

Build a 7 SAUM with the bigger bullets seated out.

SAUM is catching on with the F-class guys, same group the breathed life back into the 6.5-284 due to volume buying of brass. I don't see the SAUM going away.

I'd leave the model 7 as a hunting rifle.

If you are shooting past 3-400 yards you'll either need to roll your own or find a loader who will tune ammo to your rifle if you really want to hold tight vertical at distance.

YMMV

 

[eracer]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

Great stuff, guys!

I know this may sound 'amateur' but I have all the parts I need to reload - I just haven't set them up yet. I learn quick and am pretty detail-oriented. I know I can't be as good at load development as the guys who've been doing it for a while, but hey, there's no time like the present to get started.

I really like my Model 7, and the recoil is of no concern. I put a VAIS brake on it and it shoots like a .243. Yeah, my Grendel is a pussycat in the recoil department (and I like that) but a the SAUM isn't exactly a .870 Godzilla (or whatever they call the latest fire-breathing monster cartridge...)

Sounds like a SAUM build is in the works. Glad to hear that the cartridge might be making a bit of a comeback. I only have around 100 pieces of once-fired Remington brass right now, but I'll try to get my hands on some better stuff.

Or is Remington brass OK for comps?

 

[jbailey]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Or is Remington brass OK for comps? </div></div>

Again, a question for you -

what kind of comps?

Tactical = yes
F-class = maybe
Benchrest = no

I have some Remington 7 SAUM brass and its hit or miss. Throw out 25% of the extremes and its fine. I also have new Nosler custom-prep brass and its SUPER nice; however SUPER expensive as well

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

That looks like pics from my colonoscopy!!

 

[eracer]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eracer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Or is Remington brass OK for comps? </div></div>

Again, a question for you -

what kind of comps?

Tactical = yes
F-class = maybe
Benchrest = no

</div></div>That's pretty much my profile for now. I've only shot steel at 550 meters so far, but I can see myself spending the cash on a good 1000-1200 meter rifle. I doubt I'll ever immerse myself enough to get into benchrest (or even F-class) but someday who knows? Sounds like the Rem brass isn't really a concern for now. Gracias.

So far I'm thinking:

Manners MCS-T2A

Or Manners MCS-T5A (not sure about thumbhole stocks. I have a Savage .22 with a thumbhole, and I'm not sure I've bonded with it yet.

BigHorn barreled long-action (28", 1:8.5", maybe a medium Palma Contour if Mark Chanlynn does those.)

I'm guessing a long-action magnum boltface Remington 700 receiver?

 

[eracer]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

Another question.

My Grendel has a SS barrel, and I've heard that they are 'better' than CM barrels - especially when built by the high-end guys. What do you guys think about that? I see that Remington SS receivers are soon going to be available on Midway, and I'll probably buy the receiver first.

(BTW - please feel free to tell me to spend time searching if you think I'm asking those stupid, redundant questions that noobs so often do. I'm doing a lot of reading, but sometimes the questions have to come out...)

And thanks again for all the help.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

7SAUM is a great cartridge and a better option than the WSM IMHO

REM SAUM brass is not bad, but i fear your getting a little ahead of yourself

Not clear by your post but if gun has 7 action vs 700 then i would say leave it be.

Build what ya want or hit classified section and buy used already built

lastly put some thought into what cal you want, i would skip 308 period. A small modern efficient 6/6.5 will see you to 1k and beyond
x47/XC or CM will all do what you need

There is a group buy right now for Stiller actions that would be way ahead of a REM action. Not that i would buy one my preferred action is Defiance.

 

[eracer]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

I currently have a Model Seven hunting rifle chambered in 7mm SAUM.

I've pretty much decided to build a comp rifle myself, using a long-action 7mm SAUM. The Model Seven stays as it is.

 

[mtnhntr]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

My custom 7MM saum build on a Barker Maqchine Works action w/Lilja 26 inch Barrel.
with diferrent loads and seating shoots better than I can.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

If you are going to keep shooting the magnum..then why not leave the model 7 as is, use it for a hunting weapon, and build a custom for target work and long range? Then you would have ammo and brass commonality, have a lighter weight hunting rig with the "pencil" barrel, and preserve the awesome ballistics of the 7 saum in your target rifle.

Not sure why you would choose a 300wsm over the 7 saum for a long range target rifle. Both are ballistically superior to the 308s of the world, but to me the 7mm bullets have the obvious advantage over everything out there without going to the super heavies. Even then, that 7mm seated long with 180 hybrids will come very close to shooting inside a 338 Lapua Mag out to 1000 or a little over. The 7mm mags are as flat or very nearly so as the fast 6.5s but at the same time have superior wind drift numbers.

7mm 180 berger hybrid @2950fps, about 900' above sea level on standard day
..................Drop.......................Drift w/10mph cross
500 yds.....41.7in /2.3mil.........12in/0.67mil
1000yds....251in/6.9mil............55in/1.5mil
1500yds....762in/14mil.............146in/2.7mil

338 LM......300SMK @2800 same conditions
500yds.......46.13/2.56mil.........11.5in/.64mil
1000yds.....269in/7.5mil...........51.8in/1.44mil
1500yds.....790in/14.6mil.........133in/2.5mil

You would need to shoot targets out at a mile to see a real visible advantage with the Lapua. I don't see how you would get these kind of numbers with a 300wsm.

 

[jrs66vette]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

My son & I have 3 7mm Saum's, all custom builds. 1st one is a Stiller action & Rock Creek barrel at 26". Had a custom PTG reamer made to set 168 VLD's out to max mag lenght. # 2 is a 700LA & Krieger barrel at 30". Same reamer but used a throating reamer to seat 180 vld's to max lenght. Single feed rifle. #3 is a Mdl 7 action Brux's #4 barrel finish to 19" plus break & B&C stock. Used original reamer, this one was a 7mm Saum to begin with but I wanted better barrel & stock. Topped with a USO 1.8x10, weights in a 9lbs. Its my favorite hunting rig, I'm old & let the Jeep take me to a good watching spot!!

 

[eracer]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

Well, I just put 50% down to get in on the next production run for a Defiance Rebel XM (Medium) action. Single-shot, target port.

I'm committed now!

So far I'm going with the 10 MOA picatinny rail, heavy Remington tang, round knob, solid bolt (no flutes) and extended tenon.

According to my 'Shooter' app a 180 gr. VLD pushed to 2900fps will be -31 MOA at 1000 yds. with a 100 yd. zero (Sea Level, ) The scope I have has a 70 MOA elevation range, so I think a 10 MOA cant will suffice. Is there a reason I should go with a 20 MOA cant instead? I don't think I'll ever shoot past 1000 yards (but may play around at 400-600.)

I will probably end up with either the McMillan or Manners F-Class stock, but I'm certainly open to suggestions. I love wood, and would love to hear why I should choose a wood stock instead of the glass/carbon offerings... I love the look of the Master Class laminates, and I've read some testimonials that he (Alex Sitman) is a master at bedding an action. The stock is the about the same cost as the M and the M.

Bartlein 7mm SS barrel. 28" finished, 1:8.25 twist (not sure on the twist yet - gotta do more research.) Heavy Varmint contour (because of the 5.00" pre-taper dimension.) I may go with the Light Varmint contour, just to take a little weight off. No flutes. They can do a CNC 5R rifling, but I haven't decided whether that is necessary. I understand that 5R works well with higher-velocity and thinly jacketed bullets, helping to prevent early jacket separation. I need to read more about this. Opinions?

Sightron SIII 8-32x56 LR MD optic I already own. I might contact Sightron to see whether they can change to the LRMOA reticle, which I think might be better for LR shooting. (.25 MOA center dot and no cross hairs in the middle.) Since it's known-distance shooting I don't need the mil-dots, and I've heard mixed opinions about fine crosshair reticles. And I don't like their dot reticle (dot is too big.)

Anyway, that's all I've figured out for now.

Dot is .125"

LR MD Reticle

LRMOA Reticle (dot is .25 MOA)

I'm probably going to use Greg Tannel (Gre-Tan Rifles) to do the chamber/thread/crown work.

 

[xphunter]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

I am a fan of the 7mm SAUM

 

[RedGoat]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

7mm for sure.... Higher BC bullets (best in a medium size round). Won't be able to find factory ammunition as easily, but that's why god created consumer reloading equipment.


Keep your powder dry

 

[xphunter]

Re: Build a 7mm SAUM, or buy a .300 WSM?

I don't think Sightron can change out reticles for you.
If you intend to use the reticle for your distance shooting, I would personally lean toward their 6-24 with MOA reticle.
It is my favorite LR SFP scope for under $1000

 

[eracer]

Update:

The action and trigger are with Bill Shehane now for a full inletting job into his MBR stock. I got an Obeche wood stock done in Indian Paint. Once he finishes the stock, it and the Bartlein 30" Heavy Varmint 1:8.25 5R barrel are off to Greg Tannel, since my slot in his build schedule is now open. I've decided that I'm going to put a removable brake on it, and limit it to 17 lbs., so I can compete in 600/1000 BR comps. Long wait, but I'm getting excited. Here's a stock pic of the stock (hehe...) And in fact, that's probably real close to what my finished gun will look like.

 

[eracer]

I don't think Sightron can change out reticles for you.
If you intend to use the reticle for your distance shooting, I would personally lean toward their 6-24 with MOA reticle.
It is my favorite LR SFP scope for under $1000

I ended up selling the Sightron I had and buying another one - this time the 10-50X60 with the LR Target Dot crosshair. I know 50X might be overkill.

 

[eracer]

Quick update. Got the Shehane Tracker MBR back from Bill Shehane, fully inletted. Next step, Pure Tung Oil finish before I send it to Greg Tannel for chambering / pillar bedding / barrel crown and thread. (Gun will wear a VAIS brake - allowed in IBS comps.)

 

[eracer]

Well, the completed gun is now in my possession. This was a long road, and I have yet to shoot the gun, but I thought I'd post some (crappy) pictures of a nice gun.

 

[jbailey]

very nice, hopefully you have secured some brass... if not, I actually found a really good source: Bullets.com, one of the newer Hide Sponsors. They seem to get a lot of the Norma brass and if its not in stock currently, the wait isn't too long especially if you contact them and get on the wait list.

 

[jonthomps]

As others have said, the 7 SAUM would be my choice - in a custom rifle. I feel the high BC bullet selection tips the scales in its favor. With a 26" barrel you should be able to do everything you want.

 

[eracer]

Thanks, I have a few hundred pieces of Norma .300 SAUM brass. An easy resize.

Are you saying that bullets.com has 7mmSAUM Norma? I'll have to check that out.

very nice, hopefully you have secured some brass... if not, I actually found a really good source: Bullets.com, one of the newer Hide Sponsors. They seem to get a lot of the Norma brass and if its not in stock currently, the wait isn't too long especially if you contact them and get on the wait list.