Build a new precision bolt action rifle for whitetail hunting and bench shooting

[Deleted member 188725]

1) I currently have a Remington 700 5R .308 on a Magpul Hunter Stock with a Nightforce NXS 5.5-25 x 56 mm that is shooting 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards. I have a Timney Calvin Elite Trigger and a Area 419 Hellfire Brake on it. I got the same groups when the action was on the factor HS Precision stock it came with. I am shooting Hornady American Whitetail (which this gun seems to like) and this is the groups that I get. I get a little better groups with Federal Gold Medal Match and Federal Game Kings 165 grain and 168 grain .... This is unacceptable in my opinion. I really want to get better at shooting and stretch my 308 out to 1000 yards just for fun. And maybe shoot deer out to 400 or 500 yards. A few guys on Snipers Hide recommended I talk to Karl Kampfeld, a gunsmith, which I did, and he suggested truing my action and changing my barrel from the Remington Factory 5R barrel to a Kreiger or Bartlein barrel, which he said would run me close to $800-$1000. That sounded like a good idea to me, but I've never thought about having my gun rebuilt until recently.

2) I've also thought about just buying another factor gun like a Christensen Arms Ridgeline or one of the Bergara better quality gun that I can use as a hunting rifle to 500 yards/bench rifle to long range shoot out to 1000 yards. But in my reading of reviews, I think I'll find that i'll just get the same groupings as my Remington. They are better guns, I know, higher end guns, but they are still factory rifles and will still probably require some gunsmithing to get me to better groups with the kind of factory ammo I use. One day I'll start reloading and i'm sure my groups will tighten up even more. But for now,I am trying to decide what to do about this .308 bolt gun situation. I really want to stick with a .308. I know I can get more accurate with a 6.5 Creedmoor or a 300 win mag or a 7mm rem mag or a 260, but for now, I want to stick with a 308. I have an M1A that i 308, and I have a lot of ammo in 308, and Ive used 308's most of my life, so I dont want to start over with a new cartridge.

3) The other option one of you guys on Sniper's Hide suggested, is for me to call Long Rifle, Inc and have them build me a new precision/hunting rifle on a Zermatt action. I called Long Rifle, Inc, and one of the gun smiths there said they could use my Remington action and build from there or build me a new gun on another action. Up to me. I am also looking at putting the action on a McMillan A5 stock or a Manners and have the rifle glass bedded.

I need options, guys. I need some of your wisdom. Id like to keep the rifle not too heavy since I need to carry it through the woods and up into a treestand, but I also want it to be a gun I can grow with on the bench for bench shooting. I also done have a ton of money to do this with. I know the stock will run me $750-$950. I have that. And I have around $1500-$2000 to build the rifle from the ground up. So, tell me some things I dont know, or some things I havent thought of.

Thanks in advance for reading this and looking at each of my ideas and telling me what you think.

 

[greentick]

KRG Bravo would save you some money on the stock.

 

[Landon4]

So do you have $2k total or is it $2k plus the $750-$950, you could go with a origin action and a proof prefit for around $1500 and use your muzzle brake and trigger, throw it in a manners lrh for about another $1000 and have a really nice gun. Also if your gun is producing 3-4” groups with the whitetail ammo it doesn’t seem to me that it likes it as you say.

 

[Deleted member 188725]

So do you have $2k total or is it $2k plus the $750-$950, you could go with a origin action and a proof prefit for around $1500 and use your muzzle brake and trigger, throw it in a manners lrh for about another $1000 and have a really nice gun. Also if your gun is producing 3-4” groups with the whitetail ammo it doesn’t seem to me that it likes it as you say.

yes, i have $2000 above the cost of the stock. I may have a little more if i decide to sell the remington and just take that money and apply it to the new gun.

 

[Newbie2020]

3-4 moa. That really sucks. Seems more like a loose scope mount or something whacked out.

A nice Bergara or Ruger American or Savage will shoot sub moa out of the box.

Or

For $800-1,000 worth of quality barrel and smith work your Remington will shoot maybe half moa.

How do you know your 3-4” rifle likes that ammo? Seems like it doesn’t like it at all.

 

[Deleted member 188725]

3-4 moa. That really sucks. Seems more like a loose scope mount or something whacked out.

A nice Bergara or Ruger American or Savage will shoot sub moa out of the box.

Or

For $800-1,000 worth of quality barrel and smith work your Remington will shoot maybe half moa.

How do you know your 3-4” rifle likes that ammo? Seems like it doesn’t like it at all.

I have NF rings on the NF scope. I have all the lugs and bolts and screws torqed down to NF specs. the 3-4 inch groups are consistant. other ammo i've tried are even worse. the hornady whitetail have been the most consistant round i've found under $30/box. I don't know. something may be wrong with the barrel. But all I know is i'm done with this rifle. something's got to give.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

yes, i have $2000 above the cost of the stock. I may have a little more if i decide to sell the remington and just take that money and apply it to the new gun.

That's into PRS production gun territory - you can get a really nice turnkey setup or home build to drop your current scope on. I see it coming down to - do you want to keep your receiver, or are you fed up and ready to swap it wholesale?

 

[Deleted member 188725]

That's into PRS production gun territory - you can get a really nice turnkey setup or home build to drop your current scope on. I see it coming down to - do you want to keep your receiver, or are you fed up and ready to swap it wholesale?

i could really go either way. what do you suggest? what's PRS production gun territory exactly?

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

i could really go either way. what do you suggest? what's PRS production gun territory exactly?

Theres a $2500 cap on PRS production class, some manf make rifles to just skirt under that price and can offer a good turnkey package.

If you're not tied to it, I'd build action up on the new ARC CDG, or do a turnkey rifle (GAP PPR, MPA PMR, ARC Nuc gen2 rifle, etc). Lots of options based on what features you fancy.

 

[BlkZ06]

Moon at Crescent built me a hammer from a stock trued Rem action and Bartlein barrel..11.25 twist. Shoots Hornady 150 grain Superformance.308 thru the same holes at 100 yards.

 

[SortOfClear]

1) What size groups are you capable of?
I don't want to insult, but I have shot an identical factory rifle with that Magpul stock. I got 0.5 moa with 175gr FGMM, consisently. Each rifle is different, but it would be good to grab a known rifle/scope/ammo combo that does shoot MOA or below & confirm you are currently capable. If not, half that money can get you solid instruction.

2) How far have you disassembled the rifle?
You did great torquing down the scope; what about the rest of the setup? Action screws, stock inlet, bottom metal, scope rail, etc. Go all the way down (besides taking the trigger apart-don't recommend that). Clean, align, test fit, torque all the way up.
3) Any barrel over 18" long in a .308 bolt gun is free velocity & helpful. Research the XM-3 rifle for more info. 18" is the shortest I would go for your application.

 

[xphunter]

1) I currently have a Remington 700 5R .308 on a Magpul Hunter Stock with a Nightforce NXS 5.5-25 x 56 mm that is shooting 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards. I have a Timney Calvin Elite Trigger and a Area 419 Hellfire Brake on it. I got the same groups when the action was on the factor HS Precision stock it came with. I am shooting Hornady American Whitetail (which this gun seems to like) and this is the groups that I get. I get a little better groups with Federal Gold Medal Match and Federal Game Kings 165 grain and 168 grain .... This is unacceptable in my opinion. I really want to get better at shooting and stretch my 308 out to 1000 yards just for fun. And maybe shoot deer out to 400 or 500 yards. A few guys on Snipers Hide recommended I talk to Karl Kampfeld, a gunsmith, which I did, and he suggested truing my action and changing my barrel from the Remington Factory 5R barrel to a Kreiger or Bartlein barrel, which he said would run me close to $800-$1000. That sounded like a good idea to me, but I've never thought about having my gun rebuilt until recently.

Thanks in advance for reading this and looking at each of my ideas and telling me what you think.

Have you thought about a recrown?
You may have just got a sucky factory barrel.
A friend had a Remington take-off (Sendero taper) in 308 Winchester.
He chopped it to 15.75", and took some old 155 A-Max's and H-4895 powder, and the sucker shoots great out past 1K.
Recoil is light with a Holland Radial Baffle brake

If you like your stock and it is properly bedded, I would just rebarrel with a quality barrel (Brux, Bartlein, Krieger, Hart, etc...).
Do you reload?
If not, also try some Hornady TAP (168's).

A friend using my Dirty Thirty at WY-SHOT:

 

[346ci]

Sell the 700, buy a Tikka CTR in 6.5cm. That would be a great rifle for deer and LR targets. Shoot the hell out of the CTR, if you find that type of shooting is what you really want to do, move to a custom then.

Another option is to watch the PX here, some customs come up for much cheaper than what you could build them for.

 

[The D]

Most of a rifle’s accuracy is in the barrel and shooter. There’s nothing wrong with having LRI work their cnc magic on your action and putting a premium barrel on it. The Osprey barrels from PVA are getting great reviews but there are many more. But if you just want an excuse to tinker with a new gun, it’s hard to beat the CDG action that ARC is about to release( @karagias , I’ll take my advertising payments in the form of a discount ). You can build an amazing rifle for reasonable $$ in your basement.

Whichever route you take with the rifle, you still need to practice and you need to feed it good ammo. You can find decent factory ammo but you’re really limiting yourself if you don’t reload.

 

[Billdoe708]

Anyone else shot that rifle?

 

[General RE LEE]

Start reloading

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I’ve reloaded the shit out of a late model Remington rifle. My best efforts were a one hole group until the second shot was fired. Remington’s are not the Remington’s of my day. Those Remington’s had actions smooth enough to brag about, could be taken to the range and shoot groups, good groups, often about as good as a 1960’s, 1970’s rifle could be expected to shoot, whether with factory or handloaded ammo. Often 1 MOA or possibly even a bit better.

What the upper management did to screw up the craftsman of Ilion, I can’t imagine. But, the last Remington, I purchased made my wife’s Ruger American Ranch Rifle look like an Holland & Holland Premium. It was that bad.

 

[Missalot]

Your 700 should be capable of much better groups, at least half of what you are getting. Do you have another scope/base/rings you can try? Does the crown show any damage? Does a friend get the same groups when they shoot it? I have the gen 1 version of your gun and despite its shortcomings, it shoots about 1" to 1 1/4" with my handholds. Occasionally I get a 5/8" group.

With your budget, I'd go with a Origin action or the upcoming Coup and have a smith fit you a name brand barrel of your choice. Get it threaded so you can put a suppressor on it later. That's what I did. I bought a Bartlein barrel from Bartlein and they are fitting the Origin action I sent them. Then sell your 700 which is what I'll do when I get my new rifle.

 

[Tikkaguy]

I would look at the locking lugs, maybe one lug doesn’t have good contact. Heard of it here and there with 700s

 

[Haney]

Have you scoped the bore ?

 

[NewsShooter]

Anyone else shot that rifle?

Exactly, a buddy of mine has an AI with a S&B on top, took it out to zero the scope, he's shooting 3 inch groups at 100 and chasing the zero. I finally said let me shoot it and it started shooting pretty much the same hole. I zero'd it and told him to stop fucking with it. He likes expensive firearms but he's not very accurate when shooting them. Probably why he loves Garands.

 

[General RE LEE]

Exactly, a buddy of mine has an AI with a S&B on top, took it out to zero the scope, he's shooting 3 inch groups at 100 and chasing the zero. I finally said let me shoot it and it started shooting pretty much the same hole. I zero'd it and told him to stop fucking with it. He likes expensive firearms but he's not very accurate when shooting them. Probably why he loves Garands.

I'm sure gun makers with accuracy guarantees see rifles come back that shoot fine, the owner can't shoot for shit.

 

[2c1fr]

Me I’d sell it and get something else but I’d also do it in 6.5 Creedmoor and just eat the cost of new ammo

 

[Ronws]

I have heard here and there people having problems with Remington. But, yeah, you could buy another rifle known for accuracy or have that gunsmith doctor up what you have. Some of these fancy barrel makers like Bartlein and Proof Research have sub-MOA guarantees. My rifle is pretty good for what is considered a shitty rifle.

 

[Skeptic1]

I think your rifle will shoot significantly better than you say it will.

 

[General RE LEE]

Same for guitars. I’m sure Stevie Ray Vaughn could make a $500 Epiphone sound damn good.

 

[The D]

Same for guitars. I’m sure Stevie Ray Vaughn could make a $500 Epiphone sound damn good.

Yes.

Similar situation; one of my wife’s cousins is a pianist and is fucking incredible. He’s played concerts all over the world and just got a teaching gig at a college somewhere. He was over having dinner with us one night and made our shitty $100 Casio sound like a grand piano

 

[moosemeat]

ARC CDG but only if you buy it NOW. Like really, order that tonight. If you wait for the pre order to expire I imagine(that's French for guess I think) it will go up a hundred or so.
Do NOT get the Christiansen. You are paying for light weight over accuracy.
Have you had a known good shooter wring that SOB out? I've never seen a R700 shoot that bad. Hell, I've shot Marlin levers that shoot better than that. Not saying it's not possible, but if it does shoot that bad I would sell it as a barreled action that's really just a action and invest that money as well into your 308 death ray.

 

[The D]

ARC CDG but only if you buy it NOW. Like really, order that tonight. If you wait for the pre order to expire I imagine(that's French for guess I think) it will go up a hundred or so.
Do NOT get the Christiansen. You are paying for light weight over accuracy.
Have you had a known good shooter wring that SOB out? I've never seen a R700 shoot that bad. Hell, I've shot Marlin levers that shoot better than that. Not saying it's not possible, but if it does shoot that bad I would sell it as a barreled action that's really just an action and invest that money as well into your 308 death ray.

CDG isn’t available for sale yet, still says “coming soon” on the website

You sonofabitch, you about gave me a heart attack

 

[moosemeat]

My bad. I read the post the day it dropped and thought he was taking pre orders.

 

[General RE LEE]

Yes.

Similar situation; one of my wife’s cousins is a pianist and is fucking incredible. He’s played concerts all over the world and just got a teaching gig at a college somewhere. He was over having dinner with us one night and made our shitty $100 Casio sound like a grand piano

That’s pretty awesome. I live in Nashville so good guitarists are a dime a dozen. I play as well. I’ll get together to jam and some guy is always incredible. Makes me feel inadequate lol.

 

[Ronws]

And vice versa, the sound is in the individual and the hands. You could walk on stage with Steve Vai (a great guy with a generous spirit.) He could take his guitar off of his shoulders and put them on yours. Amp and effects unchanged from what he was doing. You will not sound like Steve Vai. You will sound like you on Vai's rig.

 

[Newbie2020]

Cmon Hide.

Selling the Remmy is the easy button. 3-4” groups?!?!

Every factory bone stock remmy I’ve ever owned (243win, 300wsm, 6cm) has been a 1.5 moa at worst.

Let’s figure this out…

 

[moosemeat]

Has he said he's had another person shoot it?

 

[Newbie2020]

No

 

[Newbie2020]

And we haven’t seen other groups OP has shot from another quality rifle

 

[The D]

Cmon Hide.

Selling the Remmy is the easy button. 3-4” groups?!?!

Every factory bone stock remmy I’ve ever owned (243win, 300wsm, 6cm) has been a 1.5 moa at worst.

Let’s figure this out…

And we haven’t seen other groups OP has shot from another quality rifle

The lazy way out of this is also the easy(albeit expensive) way, but you’re right.

Op, we require more info. Probably the easiest way is going to be to get someone else that you know is a great shooter to shoot your rifle. If they can’t get it to shoot, seems like you got a dud barrel. Or if you can get behind a well put together rifle and can post some good looking groups

 

[Ronws]

The lazy way out of this is also the easy(albeit expensive) way, but you’re right.

Op, we require more info. Probably the easiest way is going to be to get someone else that you know is a great shooter to shoot your rifle. If they can’t get it to shoot, seems like you got a dud barrel. Or if you can get behind a well put together rifle and can post some good looking groups

If I could be asked to produce paper, then it is good for everyone to produce paper. Show us the 3 to 4 MOA, otherwise, it may not be a Rem 700. You might have bought the Patriot from Backfire channel. Now, those guys had a 4-5 MOA experience with that one. At least, that is what their video and paper showed.