Gunsmithing Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

[Powder_Burns]

I've recently taken an interest in 1911's and have been contemplating building one myself. How difficult of a project is this, I understand there is a lot of measuring and fitting involved...do you need any specialty tools or are there subtle tricks or tips I should be aware of? Are there any good resources on the web or in stores that would get me headed in the right direction? Also, are there any special considerations I need to be aware of when purchasing a slide or frame kit?

 

[WPG]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

The 1911 is not a weapon that you can study from a book or from videos. You need actual hands on experience with someone who knows what they are doing. A 1911 is not a "gun plumber" project.

 

[oldgrayone]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

Go for it. It takes a little money for some tools and I recomend getting both Jerry Kuhnhausen 1911 books. Brownells have everything you need and if done right the rewards will be there.

 

[toolmaker]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

I would suggest you get Jerry Kuhnhausen's book 'the Colt .45 Automatic'. This will help you understand the workings of the 1911. It will also show you some of the tools you will need.I agree, you should learn from someone who knows the 1911 inside and out before you start working on your own. Mistakes can be expensive. I was lucky enough to be taught by my uncle who worked for COLT for Many years.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

For a truly custom built 1911 you'll have to fit the slide to the frame and then barrel fitting will include the bushing, barrel link, lugs and hood. You'll also have to fit the grip safety and slide safety to the frame.

By the time your complete you would have almost hand fit all parts to include trigger shoe, bow, sear, magazine release and so on. It's not a DIY project unless you completly understand the 1911 and what makes them tick.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

You are about to bite off a mouth full.

There is a process to do things as you build it so in the end everything works together.

Like wnroscoe stated, everything is hand fit, so you need a "feel" for the way things fit.

Springfield parts are very hard and do not bend easy.
Stainless Steel will gall if you get it too tight.

If you are serious about this project, PM me and I will help you get started.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

Wilson combat has an excellent series of DVD's.

In short...there is a large amount of hand fitting and specialty tooling involved.


Fusion Firearms offers a prefit slide/frame kit which will make things easier..

 

[bsp212]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By the time your complete you would have almost hand fit all parts to include trigger shoe, bow, sear, magazine release and so on. It's not a DIY project unless you completly understand the 1911 and what makes them tick.
</div></div>

There is a good possibility you will have to hand fit these parts too.

 

[shane45]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

RADCustom touched on a key element.

"There is a process to do things as you build it so in the end everything works together."

You must follow a logical order. It is the key. Ive seen a few home brews go south because they didnt understand the order.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

There are a lot of little specialty tools to build one from the ground up. None of them are too expensive to prohibit you from building one. If you are mechanically inclined and know the inner workings of a semi auto pistol, then it shouldn't be too hard to do. Just take your time.

Having said that, I just got a Caspian bare bones 1911 in the other week and I will be sending it off to have it finished the way I want. I just need to do some more research on gunsmiths and find one that either is taking work and doesn't have a 2 year waiting period.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

Specialty tooling, a lot of posts mention it but nobody got too specific--I assume a good dial caliper is one of the most important things I'd need...what types of files or stones are needed for the majority of the fitting work I'd be doing?

As far as the learning curve/difficulty part, I understand the mechanics of the pistol and how it functions. I figure as long as I take my time and study what I'm doing I can do it right. Maybe not perfect but close to it if I'm dilligent. Right now I just want to make sure my impression of the various work required is accurate, and I'm not going to run into unexpected barriers or pitfalls---(I don't have a milling machine or a TIG welder)

 

[mq1kael]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

a good caliper/micrometer
B/T jig if you are going with a beavertail
hammer/sear jig and stones
various files and sandpaper
motorized tool for b/t fitting
Cratex bits (don't have to be name brand)
sight staker and/or pusher
Checkering files, stippling punches
plunger tube staker
grip bushing staker
trigger pull gauge(for tuning sear leaves)
Barrel fitting tools

I'm sure there's more but that's what I've accumulated over the past couple of years. I've only built about 15 but I've had no complaints from my close friends/wife/family

I recommend on your first go round to go with these products which will make it easier, although I have no connection with the companies.


Foster(caspian parent company) Frame, if poss get integral plunger tube and grip bushings done at the company as that's two less tools to buy


Caspian Slide, Novak rear and your choice of front(mine is Glock for ease of change from nights to comp setup.

Kart EZ fit barrel, only used on two pistols but I won't use anything else. 2" groups at 20 yds, unsupported. I don't think you'll find a better buy for the money in a barrel

EGW internals. I use the kit sold thru brownells exclusively and have never been disappointed in EGW products.

a QUALITY trigger. Not the cheapest one. I prefer 10-8 flats but Wilson, Brown, Caspian are all good ones

Ex nay the magwell on your first. To do it right takes about 4-6 hrs by hand if you've done a couple and it's really not necessary unless competing

QUALITY mags. I like wilsons for caspian frames, metalforms for springer frames

That's about the build sheet for my latest, my personal one and I have had the least fitting time with it. Others I used off brand slides to save a little and had a devil fitting them. The Caspian will cost you, but you will have a quality piece and won't have to worry about the slide cracking later, or the MSH pin battering the cheap frame.


You won't need any big machines if you're not opposed to hand work with a file. I haven't been to visit my mill for a 1911 since I started 3 yrs ago. The lathe yeah for barrel crown but you really won't need it.

Sorry for the long post but I know I'd have liked to have that list when I started

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

That is a very informative post, thank you for the tool and part suggestions. I really appreciate the insight and am truly taking everyone's advice to heart. This is not something I am trying to rush into and I don't expect or want someone to hold my hand and walk me through this project, I got a lot of information and tool gathering to do and before I spend a dime on anything I want to be as intellectually prepared for the task as I can.

 

[Guest]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

- understand that with the exception of a few parts (grips, grip screw, grip screw bushings) pretty much all of the other parts of the pistol will affect the performance/operation of another part down the line. Taking a bunch of high-quality parts and slapping them together will not render you a high-quality gun...unless you fit everything properly (Sig learned this the hard way).

- Take your time and work short sessions. It can be a very delicate process, so don't rush it.

- At some point, you will f*ck something up. Don't get mad. Learn from your mistake, and try not to worsen or repeat the problem on one of the expensive parts (frame, slide, barrel). Most everything can be replaced fairly reasonably. It will happen....it's part of the process.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

Give these a shot before you start so you can see what you are getting yourself into.
http://smartflix.com/store/video/171/Building-the-Ultimate-1911

http://smartflix.com/store/video/850/Combat-Customizing-the-1911-Auto

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

There are a lot of special tools that are nice to have, but not mandatory.

Necessities that you will need to get started:

a good quality 6" mill bastard file (Nicholson for example)
a good quality 3/16 round file
a good quality 4" second cut triangle file
a variable speed dremel tool(hand mill) with sanding drums 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". Bands for these sizes in 60, 120, and 240 grit.

These will be needed to fit parts and get it put together, however, they will be totally useless if you are not able to file a surface flat. The success of this build is totally dependent on your abilities and the only one who knows those is you. Take your time and work carefully.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

Tightening the slide/frame areas is a delicate task. As mentioned, galling is a problem with SSteel. Also, if you get overly aggressive with the vise, you end up with a sprung slide.

I have a friend that was one of the better IPSIC shooters in his day. He is also a machinist, so he likes dealing with fine tolerances. He has fitted barrels for me and I could not be happier with the results. Time expended does not enter into his thinking- he just makes it right no matter how long it takes. For me, barrel fitting was a pain in the patoot!

If you want to learn the fitting and tightening of a 1911, hit a pawnshop and pick up a beater for a couple or three-hundred. From there, you can have the feet of the barrel welded up so you can recut them; tighten the frame to the slide; do some polishing of the moving parts; play with the trigger and sear engagement(CAREFULLY, PLEASE!); install a beavertail; etc. It will be fun learning experience.

If you decide to go ahead with your project, I wish you the best. But it would be good to have a mentor at your elbow.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to learn the fitting and tightening of a 1911, hit a pawnshop and pick up a beater for a couple or three-hundred. From there, you can have the feet of the barrel welded up so you can recut them; tighten the frame to the slide; do some polishing of the moving parts; play with the trigger and sear engagement(CAREFULLY, PLEASE!); install a beavertail; etc. It will be fun learning experience.

</div></div>

Great idea or look around for a Star or Llama. Both are based on the 1911 design and would make excellent learning platforms.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

Thanks for the +1 on that idea of a p'shop beater. I didn't know how that would go over, but just this morning, I saw a Ballester for sale for a little of nothing that would have made a good starting point. I have never had one torn down, but the frame/slide is similar to the 1911 and it feels close to the samey same.

david

 

[doc76251]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

In my younger days I built 1911's for fun and (little) profit. I would suggest that you start with a functioning firearm instead of a bag of parts. With the gun in your hand you can read Jerry K's book and UNDERSTAND what he's talking about. Start by changing things on your own stick. Mag buttons, Thumb Safeties, Slide releases, do a Dremmel tool throat job.

FWIW I turned 21 on Sept 13th, by Oct 13'th I had taken a hacksaw to my first pistol, a Colt Officers Model

Here it is twenty something years later. Lots of miles and about 80,000 rounds later.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

That is a beauty Doc. What does it weigh?

 

[doc76251]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

It's a heavy bugger (all SS) it weighs more than a fully loaded Beretta 92.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Kells81]

Re: Building a 1911, project difficulty for a beginner

If I did it a third time I would get a pre-fit frame/slide pre lapped from caspian. Also intergral plunger tube. I have done a partial custom and full custom using caspian. The first one I did myself then the second one I hired a pro to do the work.

This one started life as a series 80 ordered a caspian frame and did most of the work myself. Shumaker Stippled and did the Novaks on it. Turned out pretty well,

This one was a Caspian Recon frame, then everything else came from brownells and I had Shumaker in Stephenville TX assemble it. It turned out to be a very nice pistol but had to sell it to pay the bills when I first went to Iraq. Someone here on the hide owns this pistol now.