Suppressors Building a 1911

[General Lee]

what is the difference in a custom made gun and a " parts"
gun. I have noticed in other forums people calling a gun made up of differnt parts, like essex frame, wilson combat slide, ed brown barrell, etc....a parts gun. So I wonder what makes it a custom and not a parts gun.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Building a 1911

depends on who builds it/ how much it costs I would say.

And coming from someone who's done it, it's not easy. I'd much rather fork over the money and let someone else do it, than undertake that again.

 

[nobearsyet]

Re: Building a 1911

I'll almost second that, but if you get a pre fit frame/slide/barrel kit from Wilson Combat it's not that bad of a job as most of the hard stuff is done by them, not you.

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Building a 1911

I have a friend that smiths 1911's. I bought a brand new S/A Lt Weight Champion Operator and gave it to him for some"love". This was his response:
Well, I finally finished the review of your pistol.

Here is the real skinny:

1. Sear and hammer need to be replaced, the hammer hooks are cut too short, should be no less tha 0.020 inch in height, your are 0.017 on one side and 0.018 on the other. Short hammer hooks cause uncontrolled full-auto fire.

2. The sear has no relief angle cut, this contributes to the 'positive' feel that the hammer is actually moving to the rear as the trigger is pulled. The hammer should not move at all until the trigger is fully to the rear. The engagement angle on the sear is 'lopsided', it should be sqaure and fulling engage and be matched to the hammer hooks.

3. The trigger is OK.

4. The extractor is 'soft', improperly tuned and has an over cut relief angle, this causes the cartridges to slip off the extractor, before or after firing and causes jams. Most people think this is a magazine issue and replace the mag.

5. The barrel is not fitted to the slide and the recoil lug on the bottom of the barrel is improperly fitted and not engaging properly.

6. The slide to frame fit is good.

7. The slide stop shaft should be a uniform 0.200 inches, your is tapered (not good) and ranges from 0.196 to 0.198 inches. It should be replaced as this will cause the slide to lock to the rear as if the gun is empty before all the cartridges are fired from the mag.

8. The firing pin, FP spring and stop are good.

9. The sear spring is kinda weak and should be replaced.

10.The disconnector should be replaced, it is too short to work properly if the gun gets dirty from a lot of firing or no cleaning.

11. The recoil spring and buffer assembly are good.

12. The mag catch should be polished and the spring replaced. It is binding and kinda hard to get the mag out of the pistol.

13. The infernal internal lock system should be disabled. Damned lawyers....

I think this is everything, but sometimes other things become apparent when fitting new parts.

The only new parts I recommend and use are either Wilson Combat or Ed Brown, on occasion a Les Baer may work OK.

Never, ever use any cheap stuff as far as parts. The gun will fail at the worst possible time in the worst possible way. Murphy's Law applies.

Last, remember 'when the pin is pulled, Mr Grenade is not our friend'....

Hope to see you tomorrow.

Charles the Gunny.



This was a new production 1911 soon to become a parts gun.

 

[LegioX]

Re: Building a 1911

Nice write up Dave. I was curious as to what the results would be. Sounds like SA needs to tighten things up a little. My pistolsmith at PWS says no one ever accused them of turning out a great product.

 

[Silverbullet2]

Re: Building a 1911

That list would be at least 2x longer if he looked into a Kimber! JPG

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Building a 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LegioX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice write up Dave. I was curious as to what the results would be. Sounds like SA needs to tighten things up a little. My pistolsmith at PWS says no one ever accused them of turning out a great product.

</div></div>


LOL. After Gunny massages it,I think it will be a very nice piece at that pricepoint

 

[Glock45]

Re: Building a 1911


<span style="font-weight: bold">Tucson Dave</span>. . . HOLY CRAP!!!! I went up to the first line of your post NO LESS than five times to confirm you wrote "NEW" for the pistol! YOWZER!! I realize your 'smith is probably a perfectionist(I mean that in a good way!) but wow. . . I have no words!

<span style="font-weight: bold">Gen Lee</span>. . . Having worked in the Harley Davidson arena, "custom" was always a fun term. The joke for us was someone would buy a $20k factory bike, put on $3k of aftermarket junk, and we'd jokingly call it "custom."

I changed out the trigger on my Colt 1911 to an SV Tri-Glide, so is that custom? I say "no", but some may say yes since I had to fit the trigger in there. I only did it because I wanted a different color trigger, not really for any other purpose.

So, if I buy a frame from Yaffe, power train from S&S, metal parts from O.C.C. and paint from House of Color, is the bike custom? Again, some would say yes and no. I would say yes . . . as long as it it worked! LOL!

If YOU took a matched frame/slide, took the time to learn how to fit some parts, even if it was seeking help from people here on the 'Hide, borrowing a friends tools, I'd say that's a custom. Some may call that glorified assembly!?

Is ordering a Wilson Combat or a Nighthawk Custom a custom pistol then?? I mean really, it's a fabricated gun in a catalog right? OR. . . is it made to your liking and then it costs a pretty penny? I'm *NOT* ripping on them, but just want to bring it up for discussion. I'd totally take one if someone gave one to me, or when I save up enough to order one!

These are just my humble opinions that aren't even worth $0.02!! "custom" is a very loose word with no certain meaning in the context of guns, or bikes!

Just build/order/buy something you'll shoot and enjoy! New guns don't belong in the safe, they belong on the range for you to enjoy with your friends! And of course to post pics on here for all of us to comment!

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Building a 1911

Glock 45,I agree 100%. I too was in the HD, business in the mid nineties as well. To most folks,customs are just different from stock. Paul Yaffe,Ron Simms,Eddie Trotta were true custom builders unlike Big Dog, that builds cookie cutter accessorized bikes. Just like guns,there are bolt ons and customizers that actually work the metal to make either one a one off true "custom"

 

[Calibur6918]

Re: Building a 1911

I say go for it, buy a Caspian set, or a Fusion set and rock and roll. Most likely you will not be using the gun in a Military/LEO outfit. so for the sheer joy of building YOUR gun i say go ahead and do it. Just dont say this is for saving money. With the special tools you need it will cost you about as much as a GS to build it.
And i Have built one, and would happily do it again.
http://www.caspianarmsltd.com/
http://www.fusionfirearms.com/

 

[Glock45]

Re: Building a 1911

However, if you wanted to truly learn how to do it, I would recommend this:

Vicker's 1911 build school

<span style="font-weight: bold">NOT CHEAP</span> by any stretch, but then again, good education and knowledge is a powerful tool!

-G45

 

[RBros]

Re: Building a 1911

If you want to build one, be aware that the tooling to machine barrels, fit slides, do trigger jobs, will cost more than having someone build you a pistol. With that said, if you want to build several, or want to do for your own satisfaction, then go for it. We just built 3 STI 2011 pistols that were basically oversize frames and slides that didn't even fit together. Here is what we had to do:

Machine and hand fit the slide to frame for a zero tolerance fit
Machine, fit, and chamber the barrels
Drill and tap on the open comp gun for the scope mount
Tune Ejectors and extractors
Trigger jobs
Fit and blend in safeties
Blend in backs of slides to frames
Flat top slides
Coating

The lower 2 in the picture were just a couple that we did some "customizing" to with trigger jobs, recoating, grip enhancement, safeties.....

Was it alot of work and time, yep....would we do it again, already have a few more in the works and have plans to do rifle and pistol packages for some of our clients.

 

[cvedrick]

Re: Building a 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silverbullet-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That list would be at least 2x longer if he looked into a Kimber! JPG</div></div>

That is if it even ran or had no problems feeding ball ammo!

 

[cvedrick]

Re: Building a 1911

did you get lucky? or did you buy the SS frames and slides before they went to all CS?

 

[RBros]

Re: Building a 1911

Nope, the frames and slides are all CS. Everything is coated, then I polished the flats on the open gun. Whatever the steel is they use, is extrememly rust resistance. I left the slide outside for a week and nothing happened with it rust wise, and everything rusts here in Western WA. The coating also impregnates the metal and offers some protection as well even when it wears off.

 

[cvedrick]

Re: Building a 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope, the frames and slides are all CS. Everything is coated, then I polished the flats on the open gun. Whatever the steel is they use, is extrememly rust resistance. I left the slide outside for a week and nothing happened with it rust wise, and everything rusts here in Western WA. The coating also impregnates the metal and offers some protection as well even when it wears off. </div></div>


Hmmmm might need to give rabbit a call next time I need a slide....

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Building a 1911

A parts gun was made when the used parts bin of extra stuff replaced off other guns got enough stuff in it to make a new pistol. A custom gun had each part speced and bought new for the build. $0.02

 

[meestermurphy]

Re: Building a 1911

I am actually building up a 1911 from a bare frame right now. The frame is pretty much done, just waiting on the top end to get here.