Building a new house... Gun Vault..

[airborne6.8]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

that would be for a basement,, this is above ground as in not sitting below the earth.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NextGen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, concrete is porous. So you'll want to do all you can to keep the water from touching the concrete: watertight membrane on the outside, drainage board, weeping tile, 3/4 gravel bed....there's no better time to do it than right after the walls are poured and you have good access. </div></div>



This!
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[valise]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

No expert, but can say that most units available in HVAC form will be oversized for the room. We had this problem with a safe storage room, where the humidity level was such that it caused the system to repeatedly cycle on / off - worse than if there was no system for paper and wood.

 

[airborne6.8]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Im thinking with the room being surrounded on three sides by the normal living space. and with a vault door not being air tight,,, i dont think i need head and air?? someone please change my mind....

 

[BIGHAPPY]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Sorry, I thought you were talking about doing this as a basement.

 

[lightman]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

The last house that I wired had a safe room.The guy is a shooter,so the room was really a vault,large enough for his loading set-up,gun storeage,and for the family to sit in during storms.
There were extra footings under the safe room walls.There was rebar from the footing,all the way up to the ceiling.They layed concrete blocks,formed up the form for the ceiling,and poured the ceiling and filled the blocks in one pour.I placed the ceiling boxes,in conduit, right on the form board for a flush fit.I stubbed up two conduits to get power and data/comm into the room.The inside walls are studs with sheetrock.They did not install heat or air in the room and it does not seem to be needed,as the door is open when he is working in his room.The ceiling is the same thickness as a concrete block,with rebar and wire in it.
As far as electric utilities go,every company has their own policy.My company often runs underground secondary to wells and pivot systems for 1/4 mile,but trys to keep most residential services to less than 150 ft.We will run primary to a pad mount transformer if the customer wants it bad enough to pay for it.If you work for them,you can often get things done.In a big storm,the customers close to the source will get back on before the customer on the end,just the facts of life.
It sounds like you are going to have a nice room. Pete

 

[airborne6.8]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

sounds word for word what im thinking... thanks man...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Theodore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last house that I wired had a safe room.The guy is a shooter,so the room was really a vault,large enough for his loading set-up,gun storeage,and for the family to sit in during storms.
There were extra footings under the safe room walls.There was rebar from the footing,all the way up to the ceiling.They layed concrete blocks,formed up the form for the ceiling,and poured the ceiling and filled the blocks in one pour.I placed the ceiling boxes,in conduit, right on the form board for a flush fit.I stubbed up two conduits to get power and data/comm into the room.The inside walls are studs with sheetrock.They did not install heat or air in the room and it does not seem to be needed,as the door is open when he is working in his room.The ceiling is the same thickness as a concrete block,with rebar and wire in it.
As far as electric utilities go,every company has their own policy.My company often runs underground secondary to wells and pivot systems for 1/4 mile,but trys to keep most residential services to less than 150 ft.We will run primary to a pad mount transformer if the customer wants it bad enough to pay for it.If you work for them,you can often get things done.In a big storm,the customers close to the sorce will get back on befor the customer on the end,just the facts of life.
It sounds like you are going to have a nice room. Pete </div></div>

 

[adkmtnman]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: airborne307th</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gun vault with a in swing door to double as a storm shelter.. what did you do about moisture?

I have a de-humidifier that has a hose running to a tank and pump so I do not have to worry about emptying the bucket daily... Its not finished yet, the room that is, need to finish the ceiling and the cabinets.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adkmtnman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wait... are you looking for a gun vault or a "panic room" I mean some the ideas and suggestions given here seem a little over the top. I mean, who wouldn't want the gun vault Arnold had in COMMANDO??
I just think this went a little "overkill"
maybe I'm just a little jealous this thread wasn't around when I built mine... hahaha </div></div> </div></div>

 

[Wolf22]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

I may have missed it but obviously some folks have never lived nor researched what a EF4-5 tornado can do with steel and framing lumber - 10" concrete is a Starting point for anything giving you some protection. Just ask those unfortunate ones in Joplin of this year, or Moore OK of 2009 (year of the biggen down there, right Airborne?). make anyone %#%^ themselves.

Flooring - heating mats underneath tile. Could provide humidity control but will keep the room warm. just a thought. dehumidifier could be the cheapest route with elect. if you can run a drain hose somewhere would help having to babysit the bucket.

Desiccant cans - large ones, industrial models, or even Google for large bags of the stuff to absorb humidity.

 

[Wolf22]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Another thought - Ask the builder how much it would cost to Hurricane wrap the walls/roof, and the use of square nails or those used for hurricane areas. does cost more but.....

were you doing an ICF built house ? maybe i missed that, but that'd be a great route too.

State or INS refund would be nice too.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: airborne307th</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep damn heavy thats why there are extra footings for the vault.. and i have mentioned ceiling a few times.. its also 10 inches.. i like 10 becuase i can measure it with my pee pee

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Sorry I missed the ceiling.....Concrete must get you excited!
<span style="font-style: italic">She wanted 10" and said "make it hurt" so I did her twice and slapped her.</span>

After demo'ing concrete as part of a job I am a big fan of 6" with fiber additived to raise strength to 4500psi. Someone would need to rent a good sized hammer hoe and have plenty of time to get inside.

I'd consider plumbing for head if its a safe room too.

 

[airborne6.8]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

it does...lol... i have thought about the fiber as well.. you know what they say 3 inches at 90 mph will fu@k something up..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: airborne307th</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep damn heavy thats why there are extra footings for the vault.. and i have mentioned ceiling a few times.. its also 10 inches.. i like 10 becuase i can measure it with my pee pee

</div></div>

Sorry I missed the ceiling.....Concrete must get you excited!
<span style="font-style: italic">She wanted 10" and said "make it hurt" so I did her twice and slapped her.</span>

After demo'ing concrete as part of a job I am a big fan of 6" with fiber additived to raise strength to 4500psi. Someone would need to rent a good sized hammer hoe and have plenty of time to get inside.

I'd consider plumbing for head if its a safe room too.

</div></div>

 

[Hink]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Sorry for the confusion... I read 'vault' and heard 'safe room' which in the panhandle means buried in the ground. I'll agree with the additional footer strength for the weight of the walls and ceiling, and there's good info a couple posts above about planning ahead for electrical and data lines. Biggest thing is plan ahead - it's not that easy to pull down concrete inside the house if you decide later that you want something extra. For electrical, I would think that it wouldn't be too difficult to figure what you want, then plan out conduit runs and add one extra with a large nylon cord inside for later upgrades.

I would still do some type of ventilation, just to keep the air moving around and prevent condensation. Gear is pricey, hvac is cheap in comparison.

 

[pyplynr]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Skip the rebar and do what I plan on. Fiber reinforced with expanded metal instead of rebar.

 

[DeputyDawg]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: airborne307th</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it does...lol... i have thought about the fiber as well.. you know what they say 3 inches at 90 mph will fu@k something up..

<span style="color: #FF0000">You used my signature line!!!!!</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: airborne307th</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep damn heavy thats why there are extra footings for the vault.. and i have mentioned ceiling a few times.. its also 10 inches.. i like 10 becuase i can measure it with my pee pee

</div></div>

Sorry I missed the ceiling.....Concrete must get you excited!
<span style="font-style: italic">She wanted 10" and said "make it hurt" so I did her twice and slapped her.</span>

After demo'ing concrete as part of a job I am a big fan of 6" with fiber additived to raise strength to 4500psi. Someone would need to rent a good sized hammer hoe and have plenty of time to get inside.

I'd consider plumbing for head if its a safe room too.

</div></div></div></div>

 

[flatlander]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

I built an attached garage a couple of years ago and rec'd from FEMA a storm shelter packet, which I used some of their ideas in the project. To start with the builder used one of the corners to begin the safe room. My dimensions are 6'x8' and a 10ft ceiling. I went to my local safe dealer who had a recently removed Mosler vault door with a 4hr burn time that came from a closed jewelry store.
The floor for the safe room was poured 12" thick and a block wall was built first before any framing went up. The block was filled with 1/2' Rebar and 4100#'s of 4000psi concrete. I also had a drain pipe put in to handle the water from the dehumidifier.

In the ceiling they laid j bolts in the block wall before the walls were filled with Concrete to hold the 2x10's. After filling the walls the 2x10's were attached and 2x10's were spanned across the room. Here we laid blue stryofoam insulation, and wove the rebar. After all this 3/4" plastic conduit was laid and the hole made for the light and conduit run down the walls behind the slant board for the outlets. Then concrete was poured on the roof.


I'm very satisfied with the room.



Todd

 

[IndySSD]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: airborne307th</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have beat why I am doing this to death. Why am I doing this? Because I want to. And because I can. </div></div>

First of all I have to say that this is VERY well said.... and you kept it civil.

Secondly I have to second the motion to include a "Head solution" but I sure wouldn't plumb for it. I'd look into some sort of camping solution like one of these to keep in a box in the corner for the wife: http://preparedness.com/chemportoil.html or.... http://safetycentral.com/noname53.html

Good luck!

I'll be looking to do something similar (only I plan on doing mine as an extension of the basement) in a couple years once the wife and I have enough cash to pay for the land to build on.

 

[kennyg]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

I think this is a great idea and good luck with the project!

 

[afsocsp]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Good luck on your project, I'm looking to do the same thing in So. Fla. I have to take into account the humidity, sea level, and hurricanes. I want a room that can be used for storage, reloading, and storm shelter. I came across a few websites that had some good info. http://www.safeathomeusa.com/default.aspx?cid=pfpn%20ROnGvM= , http://www.shelters-of-texas.com/steelclad.html , and here is my favorite, http://www.rhinovault.com/

 

[Luke]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Will also double as a good fallout shelter...

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

I've seen the word "biometric" getting tossed around in this thread a lot. You guys have to be careful with the type of lock you choose if this is the route you decide to take. Not only are some VERY easy to hack with photocopied fingerprints and a gummie bear, but if the lock takes a jarring (from debris smashing against the outer wall from 200mph winds and the ground shaking from the tornado walking over you), the internal sensors can get shifted enough to not recognize your fingerprints. Essentially, locking you and your family in. I guess being locked in is better than being dead though. Have a backup system if you decide to do this. A keypad or manual lock or some type of redundant system. You'll thank me later.

Most biometric readers are only $2-300 bucks that are quality. Price has gone down tremendously over the past decade. The only biometric reader that's military grade that I know of is from a company called Lumidigm. Their readers are in the $2-3000 range. This is just for the reader itself. It will connect to the locking mechanism and a repository for your fingerprints.

For anybody looking at this type of technology, keep in mind that some readers are more tolerant to dirt and debris on your fingertips than others. Some readers won't take your print if you have dirt on your fingers from mowing the lawn.

Make sure the reader you decide to buy can accept multiple finger prints from you and your wife. If your wife is pregnant or of Asian decent, just about any reader will have difficulty taking her finger prints. Again, this is where the redundant system comes into play. Should your wife get pregnant, a storm hits and she needs to get inside while you're elsewhere, you'll want to make sure she can get in.

I would recommend using a word as the password on a 10 digit numerical pad. Dates are easy to crack especially if you're married with children. The person that wants to break into your vault will know you have it more than likely which means they will know you and the people you live with. Most smarter people use combinations of their kid's, wife's and their own birthdays which make it more difficult than their anniversary. The reason I say use a word is that most people with phones now have smart phones and have forgotten which letters belong to which numbers. So if you spell out "snipershide" as your password, it's 76473774433. Just don't use an easy word like your name or "password."

 

[Matt3357]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

A common thing I have heard when this was asked on a different forum I am a member of, is that contractors will recommend putting the vault under a concrete porch. It will look very natural and will kill two birds with one stone.

Matt

 

[kytrapper]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

to the op,

just a vault- keep it simple tie a floor drain in vault to main, floor drain ( go ahead and drop the main drain another 12" so you have a nice drop out of vault and prvent flooding) I ran 2 1.5" through wall and put wire through one left other to allow some air to stabilize.

Put a dehumidifer in the room set on normal and straight line in drain....

Waterproof coat inside and out... If you finish inside use strip and vapor barrier and hold all materials hold off the floor so any condesation can drain....

You are worried about 10" wall- extra cost in form set up and if I am demoing it the 2 " not going to slow a breach down by much...

what is the use of 10" wall without equal thickness in the ceiling....??

Pour 8 wall and a 4" top slab....Make your difference up in exceeding standard steel reinforcing.... it is the extra steel that will slow that type of breach down not the concrete

I have done a couple of projects ....drop a pm if I can help you

 

[kytrapper]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

sorry missed the 10" top slab... You will require some serious structural support for that.. run cost comparison on how much to form up for 10" verus 4" -- with good steel you can go 12x12 without beams using 4" slab

 

[packratt]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Take a look at this http://www.polysteel.com/saferooms.htm

They also have this which would be perfect for floor and ceiling http://www.polysteel.com/litedeck.htm

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

Lots of difference between a vault room and a safe room/bunker. For a true vault, do you need anything other than lights and a drain for the dehumidifier? It's not like you're going to be spending a lot of time in there with the door closed. For that purpose, independent ventilation and power, etc seems unnecessary. Even then, the room would work as a tornado shelter, etc.

The $3000 door is about what Browning charges for their vault room doors, designed for exactly what the OP is talking about. But iirc, the steel door frame should be included in the planning and construction of the walls themselves.

FWIW, the OP's friend who used a separate contractor likely just didn't want some local laborers to know about the vault room details. Bringing in outside work for that is commonplace.

 

[greyson]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kytrapper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry missed the 10" top slab... You will require some serious structural support for that.. run cost comparison on how much to form up for 10" verus 4" -- with good steel you can go 12x12 without beams using 4" slab </div></div>

I am way late to this thread. But I have been down this road a few times. There is a product builders can use as garage-floors. It is concrete, but with holes in it. It allows the user to park a large car in a garage, and have a room below.

Not expensive at all.

Will this satisfy a vault-room? Depends on your definition. GSA or Crane NSWC ratings? Dunno. But a room the average break-in artist can get into, hell no.

I will also add that I also did very well with buying "used" vault-doors. I won't go into exactly what I have, but it's government, GSA rate-able, will withstand radio-logical and EMP attack for 30 minutes. For the wonderful price of....$500 dollars.

The thing about vaults and safes, is their market is very small for them. Especially doors. If you save your money, and sit back and keep looking, they come up fairly often.

Just my $.02.

Regards,
Greyson

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greyson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will also add that I also did very well with buying "used" vault-doors. I won't go into exactly what I have, but it's government, GSA rate-able, will withstand radio-logical and EMP attack for 30 minutes. For the wonderful price of....$500 dollars.

The thing about vaults and safes, is their market is very small for them. Especially doors. If you save your money, and sit back and keep looking, they come up fairly often.
</div></div>
This is what I too have stated in the past. There are times/situation where they can be obtained for even less. And including delivery. To see 8 guys coming in (to the place where I saw this) carrying one door is quite a sight. Especially when said door had to be partially disassembled in order to be carried. Put more money into the reinforcement of the structure.

 

[3fingervic]

Re: Building a new house... Gun Vault..

I have seen a couple of guys have the builder excavate under the front porch, and put a safe door in the opening. The safe door was camouflaged by a book shelf. I also saw a house that was excavated under the garage. If you just had a standard 2 car garage, that would make a nice 20'x20' safe room.

As far as heat, AC, humidity and electric; I have no clue.