Gunsmithing Building a Supressor.

[wolfenstien]

I did try looking this up, but the search function on sniper hide is pretty shabby. So I cruised the pages on gunsmithing for awhile and still couldn't find what I was looking for. So I am going to assume that it is safe to start a new thread on this.

Just so we all know. IT IS ILLEGAL TO BUILD A SUPPRESSOR WITHOUT THE FORM 1 FROM THE ATF ACCEPTED AND IN HAND.

I will be getting my form 1 this coming summer so I figured I might as well get a pretty good idea on what I want to make because you have to submit the design you want as well.. I want to chamber it for 22 cal so it can fit my .22 rifles, handguns, and .223. I have a bunch of questions so here goes.

1) What is the best way to attach to the guns via threading. Will threads on the end of the suppressor work? Or do I need to have the thread father into the can so that the whole unit can fit around a portion of the barrel like a sleeve?

2) What is a good length. I know that the longer it is the ore likely you are to be getting baffle strikes. Is there a sweet spot? Would like to make it as effective as possible. I know that weight is going to come into play as well. Will a 16 incher be to long? Will it be redundant, will it be better and suppressing than a 10 incher?

3) What is the optimum diameter. Is this merely a factor of seeing your sight over the suppressor? Or is there a sweet spot on that one too. If I am using a .920 bull barrel can I make an effective suppressor with that small and outside diameter that will work good?

4) Which baffle? I am getting the feeling from research that the K baffle is the latest and greatest design. Is there a combination that works best. Conical baffles seem to be used with them as well sometimes. Is there a sweet spot on how large a chamber you want between each baffle? How long should the blast chamber be?

5) Will porting the last couple inches of a suppressor just defeat the purpose of the whole, or will that add to the suppression?

6) What effect does a suppressor have on LR shooting?

As soon as I get a pretty good idea on what I want I will see if I can get some CAD pics posted of what it would look like.

Thanks guys

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: Building a Supressor.

Actually if you just submit the length on the Form 1 application it's good enough.

www.silencertalk.com is a treasure trove of supressor information.

 

[fast freddy]

Re: Building a Supressor.

+1 on the silencersmithing section on silencertalk, but keep in mind a can made for a .223 will be too havey and big for most .22LR. k baffles work really well on 22LR and are easy to machine, and stepped cones seem to work great on .223 and 308.

 

[wolfenstien]

Re: Building a Supressor.

Thats good to know. I was told different, but it the atf accepts it they accept. Thanks for the link.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Re: Building a Supressor.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Breathe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats good to know. I was told different, but it the atf accepts it they accept. Thanks for the link. </div></div>
Just to back up what others have said. The person that told you that you have to submit designs is flat wrong. Design drawings are only for certain situations (I can't remember what for). For a Form 1 can, caliber and length are the only "designs" you have to submit.

 

[wolfenstien]

Re: Building a Supressor.

Great. That will simplify life a little. The Silencer talk forum is an awesome resource. I have spent a couple hours over there already. THANKS!!!

 

[cwshooter]

Re: Building a Supressor.

PM sent.
CW

 

[cwshooter]

Re: Building a Supressor.

...And you only have to do drawings for a "prototype".
I don't send drawings.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Building a Supressor.

Hi the biggest issue you will have is multi use with rimfires and centrefires. Most rimfire supressors are able to be taken apart for cleaning as they get coated in a lot of carbon and lead so regular disasembly and cleaning is a thing to do. with most commercial centre fire supressors they are a welded unit and you dont take them apart. we are advised to spray some WD40 into the cans after use to make the fouling softer and shake out any flakes of carbon after use and before the next shooting session this is just the manufacture we use here. So if you were to have the unit to be used on multiple rifles i would make the first baffel from stainless and the rest in high grade alloy like 7075T6 and have the end cap machined so it can be disasembled and cleaned. as you can make your own this would allow you to replace the internal baffeles if damage or wear was present. you could also have diferent internals for rim fire and centre fire. they would be spare internal parts make sure you dont have a spare outer tube as that is the registered part. if you made it 5" long and 1.5" diameter it would work fine and if the can was reduced to 4" long it would still work up to 223 with the correct baffels. i would use chrome molly as the outer tube and end cap material as it is strong and lasts well aswell as being reasonably easy to machine.

I have desighns of supressors but a K Baffel or Cone baffel desighn will work the K Baffel would be what i would make unless you have a mill and you can make a one piece baffel the whole length of the internals they work as they have lots of ridges and machined rebates to make the gas flow get disrupted the best.

As you will be making it you can also play with diferent baffels until you mahe the desighn you like the most. The thing about fitment i would thread it depending on the thread you have on your rifle now 1/2" is usual for rim fires and 1/2" 28 is the fine thread AR thread so i would likley make it that way.

Anyway hope this helps.

 

[mark4567]

Re: Building a Supressor.

After doing quite a bit of digging around in the law library, I have an Idea I would like to bounce of you guys.
A supressor reduces the Db level of the rifle shot. This requires Paperwork and taxes Etc..Etc. So rather than reducing the sound level..change the pitch. Still Just as loud just ultra sonic!!

 

[bohem]

Re: Building a Supressor.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fast freddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on the silencersmithing section on silencertalk, but keep in mind a can made for a .223 will be too havey and big for most .22LR. k baffles work really well on 22LR and are easy to machine, and stepped cones seem to work great on .223 and 308. </div></div>

Most of this is quite contrary to my first hand experience with several cans that are all Form 1's.

I have seen first hand (for hundreds and hundreds of rounds) that a can developed in size to quiet a 50-120 will take care of 22LR's just fine.

The weight of the can makes the rifle a little nose heavy on an otherwise standard 10/22. For shooting offhand it actually helps to improve the stability of the shooter because of the increased polar moment of inertia of the rifle.

I have used the above mentioned can to run from 22 shorts all the way through full bore, modern loads on a 45-70. It works great.
========================

To the OP:

Go buy yourself a copy of this book

http://www.amazon.com/Silencer-History-P...8858&sr=8-1

You want to design the can to have an internal volume of 100-150x's the internal volume of the largest case you intend to shoot it with.

IE if you want to use it to shoot 30-06, then you need to have it hold 100-150x's the 68gr of water that the 30-06 holds. To avoid messy conversions, I just use the external case dimensions to create the volume target and then multiply by 150x's. It gives a little extra internal volume as well.

To put it in perspective, the 50 cal can I mentioned above is 16" long and 2.5" across. It easily handles 45-70 and 30-06.

 

[bohem]

Re: Building a Supressor.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BULLET SPONGE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After doing quite a bit of digging around in the law library, I have an Idea I would like to bounce of you guys.
A supressor reduces the Db level of the rifle shot. This requires Paperwork and taxes Etc..Etc. So rather than reducing the sound level..change the pitch. Still Just as loud just ultra sonic!! </div></div>

Interesting idea, but I have a feeling that you'll still do hearing damage from the pressure wave. It's not the pitch that does the damage, it's the pressure wave that smashes things up internally.

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Building a Supressor.

Just wondering why you are going this route and not buying one already made, I'm sure it will be loads cheaper to make but I would be concerned about performance and the time spent waiting on the Form 1.

 

[mark4567]

Re: Building a Supressor.

I'm sure your right about needing hearing protection. But there are a couple of major upsides.1) NO $200tax stamp or paperwork 2)No muzzle weight so no POI change. 3) Basically no bigger than a muzzle brake 4)Same benefits downrange as a standard suppressor.

 

[desertfox01]

Re: Building a Supressor.

my understanding of what I have read and people who have made there own cans. you can not legally have spare baffles. you can have one set of the baffles in the can. if you have extras it could be considered "Intent"............not starting a flame war, but just going by the research and ATF letters I have seen.

 

[CaptLink]

Re: Building a Supressor.

Form 1 cans can be great learning tools if you make a set of baffles that don't work well destroy them ATFE likes a cutting torch.Then build new baffles.If you wish a multi caliber it needs to be strong and cleanable.You don't say on what kind of actions it will be on ie:semi/full/bolt

 

[bohem]

Re: Building a Supressor.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertfox01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my understanding of what I have read and people who have made there own cans. you can not legally have spare baffles. you can have one set of the baffles in the can. if you have extras it could be considered "Intent"............not starting a flame war, but just going by the research and ATF letters I have seen. </div></div>

You're correct.

My dad doesn't keep any spare baffles, he just shoots 22LR through a set of baffles that have a .530" hole in them. This way it clears a .510 cal bullet no problem if he wants to screw it onto something larger.

To the question about performance of a homebuilt vs. a store bought one, I can say from personal experience that the perceived sound signature from a bought can vs. a home built is no different. One new idea my dad and I have been working on is actually noticably quieter than any standard baffle design we've ever seen.

These things aren't rocket science, they're not really much different than plate style muffler for a car. People fear the unknown I guess. The difference in cost just meant that we were willing to experiment.

Research the book I mentioned above, it's exceptional.