Building First 1,000 Yard Rifle Off of R700 Short Action... Need Advice!

[BigCheese1]

Previously owned a .270 but decided I want a 1,000 yard capable rifle. I have the Barreled action apart, action completely stripped of paint and ready to begin. I will be shooting .308.
I understand that I need to get the action trued/ blueprinted and the threads to fit the barrel and have the aftermarket bolt all fit perfectly. My questions start with...
1. Which aftermarket barrel? Rock creek, Hart, Kreeger? I am sure all are great, just want some direct opinions here.
2. Which Bolt? I would like my bolt to be fluted... mainly for aesthetics and the beefed up look, but accuracy is my main focus. Recommended over sized bolt knobs?
3. Now the BIG question... once I have my barrel and bolt.. who do ya'll advice me to send it to to get trued and done RIGHT? I want this build to be as precise as possible and would like to know who does some of the best work? I heard Harold that works with Rock Creek does great work. found mixed reviews on his work online.

Those are my big 3 questions at the moment. I greatly appreciate any responses in advance.

Thanks
- BigCheese1

 

[BoilerUP]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...2013-remington-m700-accurizing-group-buy.html

Are you firm on a 308? I mean, it'll reach 1000 but a 6-6.5-7mm will get there with much less drop & drift...

 

[wrhunter]

Unless you are waiting to shoot FTR I would also suggest something other than .308 if your goal is 1000 yds. Both for ballistics and component availability. Of course wether or not you reload will factor into the decision.

 

[Cacciatore]

1. Grizzly industrial has some Bartlein barrels in stock and they are running a 4th of july sale (10% off 7/4 - 7/15) you do need a coupon code though

2. Bolt fluter here on the hide can flute your bolt this is his website home

3. Mark from Short Action Customs does great work. My most accurate rifle was built by him and I love it. Great turnaround time as well.

 

[Aimsmall55]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...2013-remington-m700-accurizing-group-buy.html

Are you firm on a 308? I mean, it'll reach 1000 but a 6-6.5-7mm will get there with much less drop & drift...

Agreed. A 6.5 cuts wind like a hot knife threw butter. Hell I'd say get a 6.5 creedmor built or buy a good one and shoot the factory 140 amaxs. Sometimes I question why I even reload because the damn things shoot 1/2 moa or less at 1,000 yards pretty much all the time when the wind isn't too bad. Ammo is cheap, readily available , and the best shooting factory loads I've ever seen. Just my opinion. Only reason I'm in the .308 game still is Ftr.

 

[JB02]

Many people here go wither either Krieger or Bartlein barrels. I have a Krieger, a Bartlein and a Brux and they all are shooters.

If you want a top of the line bolt, go with a PTG or Tubbs. If it seems too expensive, then go with an oversize bolt knob and shallow flutes on your standard bolt.

6/6.5/7mm calibers are more in vogue but they are also more expensive and often require a significant investment in time and reloading equipment. 308 is easy to find and reload. Barrel life is fantastic. You will have to fight the wind, and getting to 1,000 w/ 168s is very challenging because it tends to hit transonic velocity ~ 800 yds (you really need either 155s or 175s/178s to get there).

Mark Gordon (SAC), Russel (SSC), or Robert (RW Snynder) are who I would go with for a build off a Rem 700 Receiver. They all do good work and have reasonable turn around times. GAP is good too, but expect a longer wait. Chad Dixon from Long Rifles Inc is running a group buy that may suit your needs as well.

Don't forget that you need a good stock, bottom metal, and trigger to go with your rifle as well as descent optics.

 

[FN in MT]

I'm building a 6.5x47 Lapua. Ordered a new HART barrel yesterday. I've used three of their barrels in the pst for hunting rifles and they all have been accurate as well as smooth. EASY clean up.

I started with HART as a few local guys were big bench rest shooters. And they all used their barrels. I'd say that TODAY if you stuck to a name maker...it would be tough to find a bad barrel.

 

[BoilerUP]

6/6.5/7mm calibers are more in vogue but they are also more expensive and often require a significant investment in time and reloading equipment.

I've read that many times, but my experience just doesn't bear it out...especially if one compares 6.5 Creedmoor to 308.

 

[Aimsmall55]

What about optics?? SWFA, Vortex, ?? I think a Viper PST 6x24 would be a good scope to start with. Cheap compared to NF or S&Bs but descent glass and you gotta love that VIP warranty.

 

[565fitter]

I was going the same way until I was talked into the 6.5cm and getting into the longrifle inc group buy. I cant wait

 

[BigCheese1]

Oh I will be replacing bottom metal and trigger and everything else. I was think badger bottoms and a nightforce scope. I have noticed that everyone is advising me to not go with .308!! I liked it for its versatility and everything that comes with that round... I want it to be fairly easy to reload and I feel like .308 will offer that a little better over some of the other rounds mentioned. My intended use is long target shooting and big time hunting. If the .308 isn't enough then tell me why!! Thanks guys

 

[bbcellars]

There are just better cartridges for 1000 yard shooting than a 308...any of the 6mm's or 6.5mm's have a better ballistic advantage ( wind & elevation ) and you might achieve the results you are looking for easier. The 308 moves a lot in wind, and in my experience, missing a wind call is the biggest factor in my missed shots. Less wind drift to account for, the better... And if you plan on reloading anyway, I would definitely go with a 6mm or 6.5mm. Maybe 6.5 Creedmoor so you could find stock ammo, but I've always been happier with my ammo for Copper Creek. For price, availability, and consistency...

As far as gunsmiths to do the work. The LongRifles Inc Group Buy is very interesting, and also a very good deal. It might be a good way to get a very accurate rifle for a very good price. Although I have been really happy with Marc Soulie at Spartan Precision, and he will get all my future work.

For barrels, I believe all the ones you mentioned will achieve the accuracy you are looking for, but I always use Bartlein's...I have over 10 of them, and absolutely zero complaints....

Good luck with your build! You are about to have a lot of fun!

 

[JB02]

I've read that many times, but my experience just doesn't bear it out...especially if one compares 6.5 Creedmoor to 308.

Well in my experience it does. Brass and bullets are more expensive and there isn't nearly as large of a knowledge bank. I think 308 is a good jack of all trades but master of none type of rifle. You have to realize that it has limitations, but it has plenty of advantages. I'm glad I started shooting with a 308 because I can better appreciate the advantages and shortcomings of the capabilities other cartridges offer.
[MENTION=32240]BigJoe29[/MENTION] sums it up nice here:

while the 308 argument has been beat to death in this thread i will put my .02 in for what its worth.

1. for all of you guys who are just starting out, learning to reload, learning the game, have never shot a match.... do you really expect to be hindered by shooting a 308 that much? Most of the guys top in every match have been doing this game a LONG time and have learned what they like and don't like, are usually sponsored by a barrel maker, and know their caliber, load etc. I will still tell a newb to shoot 308 to begin with unless they are a experienced reloader, or have fairly deep pockets to pay for barrels and the ammo required to be "competitive" I have plenty of guns other then 308 and i still shoot more 308 then any other caliber for the reasons of barrel life, making me work in wind a bit more, ammunition availability. Like i said if your budget allows you to buy/reload enough ammo for your 6.5 or 6 then more power to you, mine does not so i shoot a lot of 308 and then shoot the other stuff for comps when i have time.

[MENTION=87759]BigCheese1[/MENTION], do what your budget allows and be honest with yourself and with your intentions. If you honestly imagine yourself only shooting long distances, > 600 yds, then 6.5 CM may be worth investigating. It can adequately handle most game with good shot placement. I think everyone should have a 308 because of the versatility and large knowledge base it brings to the table.

 

[BoilerUP]

Well in my experience it does. Brass and bullets are more expensive and there isn't nearly as large of a knowledge bank.

Not to be argumentative, but in the interest of educating the OP:

Yes, Lapua brass for a 260 is more expensive than Lapua brass for a 308, roughly $25-30. Call it $0.30 per brass more expense, break that down over 10 loads per piece and you're at $0.03 more per shot.

Hornady 6.5CM brass is priced about the same price as 308 Lapua brass, sometimes less.

Hornady 140gr HPBT/A-Max are priced the same or slightly less than 30cal 178gr HPBT/A-Max; same goes for Sierra 140s vs. 168/175s and 6.5mm Bergers run a couple bucks a box less than 30cal Bergers. And in my experience over the last few months, 6.5mm bullets have been MUCH easier to come by than popular weight 30cals, especially locally (my shop has 140 HPBT & A-Max on the shelf, with no 30cal match bullets for at least 3 months).

Primer and powder between a 6.5 and a 308 is a wash, with the 260 using maybe a grain or two less powder and the Creedmoor a grain less than the 260.

Knowledge base? Hornady puts the load recipe on the side of their 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo, and for a 260 run a 139-142gr bullet of your choice with 42-43.5gr H4350, the same amount of RL17, or 45.5-47gr H4831SC.

Now, the barrel life delta between a 6.5 and a 308 is well known. Also, 308 factory ammo is found everywhere, 6.5 Creedmoor is available but much less so, and 260 factory stuff is basically unobtanium...about the same can be said for local shops carrying brass.

If Remington would make a 700 SPS Varmint and/or AAC-SD in either 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor, I'm guessing the number of 308s purchased would plummet and the availability of factory ammo & components would skyrocket.


Owning a 260 before a 260 was cool (late 90s), I've never had a use for a 308. I did recently purchase a factory 700 16.5" 308, and it was a sweet handly little rig...but it'd have been even sweeter as a 260 because a snubbie 260 @ 16.5" still slings 140s with ballistics superior to a 26" 308 pushing 168 Hybrids @ 2800fps. So I sold it, and plan to build a shorty 260.

Good thing this is America where we can argue about "best rifle" on the interwebs, eh?

 

[JB02]

Yes, Lapua brass for a 260 is more expensive than Lapua brass for a 308, roughly $25-30. Call it $0.30 per brass more expense, break that down over 10 loads per piece and you're at $0.03 more per shot.

Hornady 6.5CM brass is priced about the same price as 308 Lapua brass, sometimes less.

I think Lapua brass is overpriced and I won't buy it. If you go with CM, you have one choice (but it is descent stuff). I have good luck getting used BHA or plain winchester brass and it works very well, and has lasted a long time with annealing. This is a definite advantage 308 has over 260 and CM if cost is a consideration, as I have stockpiles of 308 brass but on a small stash of CM brass.

Knowledge base? Hornady puts the load recipe on the side of their 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo, and for a 260 run a 139-142gr bullet of your choice with 42-43.5gr H4350, the same amount of RL17, or 45.5-47gr H4831SC.

I did have good results with the load recipe on the box, but was able to improve with handloads. Same for imitating FGMM in 308.

BTW, have you achieved good velocities with H4831? I haven't tried it because I've read from many complaining that they loose too much speed.

Good thing this is America where we can argue about "best rifle" on the interwebs, eh?

Absolutely

 

[SuburbanHick]

im very partial to bartlein barrels and xlr chassis.... i wouldnt flute the bolt... it just makes room for stuff to go (dirt, water grit, etc...)... if you go to a "wildcat" round good luck... i love my 308 (both work and personal rifle).... yes the 6.5 has a higher BC.. but 308 is time tested and well researched. Plus its everywhere... ive shot 1K with my 308, and guess what... the bullet hit just fine....bottom line 308 is great for the first rifle.... sure you will have less values with the "wildcats" but i can assure you that paper or steel will not know the differeance....

 

[BoilerUP]

BTW, have you achieved good velocities with H4831? I haven't tried it because I've read from many complaining that they loose too much speed.

48.0gr H4831SC gave roughly 3040fps with 123s from my 26" 260 and good accuracy. With 140s, I could only get 46.0gr in before compression prevented consistent OALs and velocity topped out around 2750fps.

Some folks swear by it though...

 

[billyburl2]

Since you are building on a long action, and are pretty set on a 30 cal, why not a 30-06? More capacity than 308, so it starts the same bullets faster. And has all the reloading history that the 308 does.

That being said, I agree on the 6, 6.5, or 7mm rounds... Honestly, a 270 would probably get to 1000 as effectively as a 308 does.

 

[cotntop]

You got really good advice so far. Go Creedmoor and do not look back. Everything is easy from reloading to shooting at 1000 yd. Had really good luck with Brux barrels. I shoot 308 and love that round, but just toooo complicated for extreme distance. Hope this helps.

 

[308Gunner]

I like a 308 hell I have 3 I also think every one should have a 308 it will do the job and help you with wind calls, with that being said I also have a 6.5-284 and a 260. Shoot a 308 and in a year you can build a 6 or 6.5 always look for a reason for another rifle.

 

[johnny-bravo]

I'm building a 6.5x47 Lapua.

+1
same here,Lilja barrel, Lapua brass, RL17 and some 139gr'ers.....cant get done soon enough

 

[JB02]

48.0gr H4831SC gave roughly 3040fps with 123s from my 26" 260 and good accuracy. With 140s, I could only get 46.0gr in before compression prevented consistent OALs and velocity topped out around 2750fps.

Some folks swear by it though...

Ok, I thought you loading 4831 in CM (not 260).

 

[Aimsmall55]

I like a 308 hell I have 3 I also think every one should have a 308 it will do the job and help you with wind calls, with that being said I also have a 6.5-284 and a 260. Shoot a 308 and in a year you can build a 6 or 6.5 always look for a reason for another rifle.

I will say that's a good idea. But not only would a 6.5 boost his confidence ( and ego probably ) at long range shooting, but only he knows whether he can afford to do that. Lets be honest it's easier to sit here and reccomend what he should do, and I totally agree that if you can master the .308 , a 6.5 is like cheating but also I think shooting and getting the most enjoyment out of your rifle is what makes this sport. I've been blessed to have several really good shooters, but on the other hand I've bought guns that I wanted to wrap around a tree after testing and testing and getting 1" groups at 100. I'd say if you do not reload hornady 140 amaxs out of a creedmor SHOOT! Also 175 smks from Federal also shoot. But if you can find the 175's let me know cause I haven't seen em in months. That being said , with all due respect, I'd say go 6.5 Creedmor and if its too easy then try a .308. Let me know that goes. Lol. Good luck

 

[BigCheese1]

Hey guys, Thanks for the advice so far. Heres where i stand right now.

1. I do not own a .308. I am building off of a SHORT action, not a long action. I believe someone mentioned I was using a long action. I am set on a .308! I have entertained other options but everyone needs a .308 so I will stick with it. Hell, I already have ammo for it and don't even have the gun!
2. Hart and Kreeger were mentioned several times... I believe I will pick up one of them.
3. I will NOT flute the bolt. Just have to pick a good bolt now. Maybe PTG?
4. My main goal right now is picking a barrel and bolt and sending it to SOMEONE to true my action and put it together perfectly. Haha we can discuss the other issues later!!

 

[johnny-bravo]

I think people were trying to help you get out to the 1000yd mark successfully, I have never shot 1000yds but do have a local gun club that shoots 500yds just havent made it there yet. I own a .308 along with a 300 win mag, 300blkout and .270 but decided to go 6.5x47 Lapua even against my gunsmith that was trying to get me to shoot 6mm. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT so I say get the .308 and enjoy it, hell I love mine but I also enjoy shooting all my other calibers. I am pumped to get the 6.5 done so I can send some down range, enjoy the build.......

P.S. after looking at every barrel maker out there I was gonna go krieger as well until my riflesmith (who is also a comp. bench rest shooter) told me all about the Lilja barrels and how the button rifling process was much cleaner and Lilja also hand laps them, thats what he uses so I took his advice on it plus he gets a discount. DISCLAIMER, Im not saying the Lilja barrel is better than any other, going on 20 years of my gunsmiths knowledge and hands on experiences for this. Dont wanna get flamed.....lol

 

[SuburbanHick]

seriosuly id look at bartlein barrels....

 

[BoilerUP]

Argument about anybody, let alone everybody, "needing" a 308 aside...

Get a Bartlein or Krieger barrel from Bugholes or Grizzly, and send it to LongRifles as part of their group buy.

Otherwise...Robert Snyder, Short Action Customs, Scout Supply Company, GA Precision, Black Ops Precision, or any number of highly reputable smiths that participate on this forum.

 

[SuburbanHick]

Argument about anybody, let alone everybody, "needing" a 308 aside...

Get a Bartlein or Krieger barrel from Bugholes or Grizzly, and send it to LongRifles as part of their group buy.

Otherwise...Robert Snyder, Short Action Customs, Scout Supply Company, GA Precision, Black Ops Precision, or any number of highly reputable smiths that participate on this forum.

I have never had any work done by them....everyone listed there has a great name for a reason....that being said.... Mark from Accurate Ordnance did an amazing job on my 308....I can honestly say that he was amazing with customer service also

 

[cotntop]

Might save a lot of time to let Bughole do the whole job. Greg chambered me a 308 with a Rock Creek that really rocks.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Might save a lot of time to let Bughole do the whole job. Greg chambered me a 308 with a Rock Creek that really rocks.

Greg is a great guy to deal with. Ordered an action and had it 3 days later

 

[Aimsmall55]

Welcome to the Hide. Lol

 

[mwhite]

Hey guys, Thanks for the advice so far. Heres where i stand right now.

1. I do not own a .308. I am building off of a SHORT action, not a long action. I believe someone mentioned I was using a long action. I am set on a .308! I have entertained other options but everyone needs a .308 so I will stick with it. Hell, I already have ammo for it and don't even have the gun!
2. Hart and Kreeger were mentioned several times... I believe I will pick up one of them.
3. I will NOT flute the bolt. Just have to pick a good bolt now. Maybe PTG?
4. My main goal right now is picking a barrel and bolt and sending it to SOMEONE to true my action and put it together perfectly. Haha we can discuss the other issues later!!

Hart has great barrels,, they have been producting barrell for the military sniper rifles,, national match shooting for decades, u wont go wrong with a hart, there also is douglas, synder barrels, they all had contract with military and people building custom rifles these are good choices, i went with a hart m40a1 barrel at 24inches long on my 308,,,,, as far as your bolt y not use the bolt u have?

 

[swampbuck]

I love my Harts. I say send it to Hart and let them do the work. Either Bobby Hart in PA or Hart Barrels in NY. Same family. You won't go wrong.

 

[swampbuck]

Of course I have had a great Krieger too but it took a lot longer was more expensive and shoots the same.

 

[Temp9]

P.S. after looking at every barrel maker out there I was gonna go krieger as well until my riflesmith (who is also a comp. bench rest shooter) told me all about the Lilja barrels and how the button rifling process was much cleaner and Lilja also hand laps them, thats what he uses so I took his advice on it plus he gets a discount. DISCLAIMER, Im not saying the Lilja barrel is better than any other, going on 20 years of my gunsmiths knowledge and hands on experiences for this. Dont wanna get flamed.....lol

I dare say your smith is wrong. Cut rifling is far cleaner than button rifling. And as far as I know, every top end barrel manufacturer hand laps their barrels. Not saying button rifled barrels are bad (I have 2 button rifled, 1 CHF, and no cut rifled barrels), but they aren't superior to cut rifling.

 

[BGE541]

What about optics?? SWFA, Vortex, ?? I think a Viper PST 6x24 would be a good scope to start with. Cheap compared to NF or S&Bs but descent glass and you gotta love that VIP warranty.

A 6X scope for 1,000y shooting huh? And you're saying a .308 is a handicap... right.

 

[JB02]

A 6X scope for 1,000y shooting huh? And you're saying a .308 is a handicap... right.

The Vortex scope is a 6-24X56. 24X is plenty for that distance

 

[BGE541]

6X24 would specify a optic with 6 power/24mm obj.
Which Vortex makes* http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/razor_hd_gen_II_riflescopes

Personnally I would rather have a .308 with great glass then a flat 6mm with lower end glass.

The "best" caliber isnt going to help you when your scope starts picking up mirage from barrel/environmental effects... 1,000y is a distance that will make you wish you didnt sloutch on glass. Just my thought and experiance.

 

[Prophet78]

My smith recently recommended Lilja as well. I wanted a Krieger but they are 11 mo. Out. Yes you can get standard contours from Grizzly. I ended up getting a heavy varmint. This is my first barrel and smith experience. It is a .308 too.

 

[565fitter]

If you go with CM, you have one choice (but it is descent stuff).

I see that nosler is making 6.5 brass. don't know if it was just out of stock or if it hasn't been released yet. but that's promising. I think it is becoming a much more popular round that more manufacturers are jumping into.

 

[swampbuck]

I'm not sure I would say cut rifling is cleaner. A lot of the benchrest guys say cut rifling has more tool marks. They are all fine and the theories out there are mostly theories. The have all spent time in the winners circle. I'd start with specs and then see who offers what you want.

 

[Aimsmall55]

A 6X scope for 1,000y shooting huh? And you're saying a .308 is a handicap... right.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that x 50 part. Smart ass

 

[JB02]

I see that nosler is making 6.5 brass. don't know if it was just out of stock or if it hasn't been released yet. but that's promising. I think it is becoming a much more popular round that more manufacturers are jumping into.

Nosler brass is very expensive. They may have decided to offer it, but I'm not blue blooded enough to afford it.

 

[Aimsmall55]

My smith recently recommended Lilja as well. I wanted a Krieger but they are 11 mo. Out. Yes you can get standard contours from Grizzly. I ended up getting a heavy varmint. This is my first barrel and smith experience. It is a .308 too.

Check out SouthernPrecision.com they have a lot of things in stock that no one else does

 

[Aimsmall55]

Scratch that. It's bugholes.com