Building first rifle, got some questions

[Ranger Bob]

First let me just introduce myself. I'm Bob. I'm in Sanger, Tx which is on the north-west side of DFW. I retired from the Army right at three years ago. Twenty years, Infantry. I've got a lot of shooting experience. I have taught Basic Rifle Marksmanship, Advanved Rifle Marksmanship, Close Quarters Marksmanship, Automatic Weapons Marksmanship, and Long Range Marksmanship. I was assigned as a sniper early in my career and did that for two years. Can't say I remember everything but, I still have my logs, the fundamentals are still there and I do pretty well.

So here's the thing. With all the shooting I did in the Army, I was never really into guns outside of work. I just had too much else going on and didn't need anything else competing for my time and money. Now things are different. I miss some aspects of my military life and shooting is one. I am building my first bolt gun. I really need the gun to be less than 1/2 MOA to feel like it is doing its part and allow me to focus on improving my skills. I am however on a budget. Here's my stick:

R700 SPS Varmint .308 action and barrel 1:12
B&C A5 Medalist stock
EGW 20 MOA base
Burris XTR rings
Bushnell 6500 4.5-30x50 Tactical
Trigger - ? Haven't decided

I have not shot this yet. I actually have everything except the R700 which should be here soon. My first question is should I go ahead and get the gun blueprinted right out of the box? A local shop, S & S Precision Rifles, will Blue Print the Action, Rechamber the Barrel, Recrown, and Bed the Receiver for $375. Seems like a pretty fair price. Will this work give noticable improvement over just bolting the action into the B&C stock?

Next question is about where to shoot. I have been shooting at Quail Creek. Nice range with nice people but, limited to 100yds. I know the Denton Gun Club is nearby but I'm not quite ready to commit to that and they have a waiting list. Anything within an hour drive that goes to 500+?

Thanks. Great site here.

Bob

 

[AMG50]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

i would probably drop it in the stock and try shooting it the way it is first, I've heard a lot of guys say that their 700's are fairly accurate with the factory configurations, my .243 sps was no different. Then at least you will have a baseline to notice any improvements down the road...And if you dont like it, its pretty easy to pull out and send to the smith...

 

[lovain1932]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Bob, I would bed the stock and Lap the barrel and then shoot it to see how well it will do. I have the same gun with the B&C A-2 stock I did'nt have to blue print My gun will shoot 1/4moa and it will do it at 600yds. If I do my part. Remington has been turning out some pretty good rifles lately. Also I would adjust the trigger down to about 2 3/4lbs.

 

[littlerascal56]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Bob: Welcome to the Hide...there are lots of good guys on here.

I have built several guns off the R700 Varmint .308 1:12, and the have all been 1/2 to 3/4 guns (with handloads). The main thing I have done is to install a good stock w/bedding, lap the lugs, and get a trigger that is usable. The older X-Mark will adjust to about 2.5#. New X-Mark PRO doesn't like to go that low. If you like it lighter, I recommend a Rifle Basix, as it comes w/Safety and bolt release....ready to swap.

I say shoot it, then if you decide it won't meet your standards, have it blueprinted. You might be surprised!

 

[Widowmaker0001]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBore56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob: Welcome to the Hide...there are lots of good guys on here.

I have built several guns off the R700 Varmint .308 1:12, and the have all been 1/2 to 3/4 guns (with handloads). The main thing I have done is to install a good stock w/bedding, lap the lugs, and get a trigger that is usable. The older X-Mark will adjust to about 2.5#. New X-Mark PRO doesn't like to go that low. If you like it lighter, I recommend a Rifle Basix, as it comes w/Safety and bolt release....ready to swap.

I say shoot it, then if you decide it won't meet your standards, have it blueprinted. You might be surprised! </div></div>

What he said.Goodshootin'

~R

 

[nutzo396]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Bob, I too know how things can go when you're on a budget. As a " Thank You " for your years of service I would like to offer you a certificate that I picked up at the Shooters Bash for a complete action truing and bolt knob from the guys at Underground Skunkworks. They have been a great supporter here on Snipershide.I'm sure they can do a bang-up job for you to get the most out of your stick. Just PM me your address and I'll get it out to you. Again, Thank You.

Cheers!
Stiggy

 

[ISBe]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stiggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob, I too know how things can go when you're on a budget. As a " Thank You " for your years of service I would like to offer you a certificate that I picked up at the Shooters Bash for a complete action truing and bolt knob from the guys at Underground Skunkworks. They have been a great supporter here on Snipershide.I'm sure they can do a bang-up job for you to get the most out of your stick. Just PM me your address and I'll get it out to you. Again, Thank You.

Cheers!
Stiggy </div></div>

Class act! Nice to know there are still good people in this world.

 

[5RWill]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBore56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bob: Welcome to the Hide...there are lots of good guys on here.

I have built several guns off the R700 Varmint .308 1:12, and the have all been 1/2 to 3/4 guns (with handloads). The main thing I have done is to install a good stock w/bedding, lap the lugs, and get a trigger that is usable. The older X-Mark will adjust to about 2.5#. New X-Mark PRO doesn't like to go that low. If you like it lighter, I recommend a Rifle Basix, as it comes w/Safety and bolt release....ready to swap.

I say shoot it, then if you decide it won't meet your standards, have it blueprinted. You might be surprised! </div></div>

I agree shoot and see and if it doesn't work out blueprint it. My X-mark pro is at 1lb. I didn't do the gunsmith did and got the creep out of it. At the moment i know i will eventually get a jewel trigger, but my X-mark is actually really nice the way it is.

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Thank you everyone for the input. It does make sense to see how it shoots before dropping more money into it. I will be swapping out the trigger. I have no experience with aftermarket triggers but have looked at both the Rifle Basix and the Timney websites. Both seem to have good reviews on this site.

Stiggy, I appreciate the offer but, just saying "thank you" is enough. It has always made me uncomfortable when people offer me things because of being a soldier. I used to get so ticked off when airlines were asking passengers in first class to give up their seats for soldiers. In reality those passengers who paid good money for those seats had also contributed to the cost of the soldiers seat. And it was never the corporate execs flying on the companys dime that gave them up; it was always grandma and grandpa who were finally taking the vacation they had always dreamed of. Anyway, off my soapbox, thank you for the offer.

Bob

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Spending nearly $400 to re-chamber a Remington barrel is wasted money, IMHO. They just don't really give you enough shank to work with to push back and fully recut threads to match any work you do on truing the action. I would certainly shoot it as-is and see how you feel about it. If you really can't stand to shoot it another minute then consider investing another $300 in a Rock 30 cal blank (frequently available in the for-sale section here) and make sure you get your full money's worth with that truing job.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

See how she shoots first in factory configuration (+ the stock obviously) and then if it's not quite up to your standards have it blueprinted and such, maybe if it does shoot well enough then you could put that extra money into glass, a MCM stock, ammo, gear, or anything else you might want/need.

Thank you for your service to our country!

-Dylan

 

[nutzo396]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

I totally agree with the other guys also. Shoot it first and see how it is before making changes.If it's not up to par then my offer still stands. I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable about it. I had a fellow Snipershide member take me under his wing when I was starting out and gave me some OUTSTANDING deals on gear and alot of guidance in general. If it wasnt for him ( and he knows who he is )I wouldn't be half the shooter I am to date. I just look at the certificate as a "Pay It Forward" of sorts. Besides, after my last build I won't be using it anytime in the near future.

Cheers!
Stiggy

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Well, I've got it pretty much together. Haven't bought a trigger for it but, I think I should shoot it first and see if I hate it. I skim bedded the scope base with JB Weld and made my own bolt handle then sprayed a coat of Krylon ultra flat OD. I'm thinking about adding a DBM setup. I'm going to try to get it to the range tomorrow. I don't reload (yet) so I'm going to break it in with a box of Winchester 150gr power points. Then I will try out a few different factory loads from Black Hills. I've got some 168gr A-max Match, 168gr HP-Moly Match, and some 175gr BTHP Match. Not allowd to shoot any FMJ at the range I normally use.

Bob

 

[Prison Mike]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Bob, I myself was on a pretty tight budget when building my rifle so i know what thats like. I had to save every penny for a while to finally get everything I needed. But it was well worth it. It seems to me like you have a really solid plan thought out and when youre finished your probably going to have yourself a tack driver. After reading review after review I finally decided to go with a timney trigger. I just didnt see the need to pay another $100 for a jewell and even though I didnt have anything against the stock xmark trigger, I just wanted to see what all the hype was about and Im really glad I did. When I got the rifle from the factory and dry fired the trigger I thought that it was a very decent trigger and hesitated about getting an aftermarket trigger, but decided to go big or go home and after I got the timney in the mail I realized that I had made a good decision. Im not saying anything bad about any other aftermarket trigger, Im just saying that I decided to go with a timney and I love mine. As for having it blueprinted and such.... if you dont like the way it shoots from the factory, like I said... go big or go home. If your going to put money into a good precision rifle you might as well go all out. Dont rush your build.... take it one step at a time. Save money for one thing and then for another. Before you know it youll have the baddest mother fucker around! Good luck with your build and thank you for your service brother.

And to ISBe, youre a good guy in my book for doing something not many people have the selflessness to do! Not too many people around that would do that.

 

[nutzo396]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

It looks like your build is coming togather nicely Bob.Be sure to give us a range report when you get out. There are TONS of knowledgable guys on here. Or you could come down to Rifles Only for the Cup!

Cheers!
Stiggy

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Looks pretty nice so far!

 

[tmcginnis]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

I noticed you said you were going to have to break in with some powerpoint and were looking into some black hills. Im sure you can find it online, but if your local shop is anything like mine, you will be paying about $40 a box for it. If i were you, i would take a look at southwest ammunition, they have match grade ammo for $1 a shot (when you buy 200 or more). Loaded with 175 SMKs. To people like you and i, that is a great price for some GREAT ammo. I ordered a few boxes a while ago, and it shoots great! Just my .02. Goodluck with the rifle, looks awesome!

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stiggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks like your build is coming togather nicely Bob.Be sure to give us a range report when you get out. There are TONS of knowledgable guys on here. Or you could come down to Rifles Only for the Cup!

Cheers!
Stiggy </div></div>

I have checked out the Rifles Only website before. Looks like a great facility. I'm sure I will make it down there eventually. Maybe even shoot at next years cup?

Bob

 

[nutzo396]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

It's never too early to be a spectator. It would be great info to see how one of these comps worked. I would check with Frank(Lowlight)or Jacob at RO to make sure it was ok though before driving down.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

As a confirmed cheapskate, I see true wisdom in getting the most mileage as possible out of the original barrel. Think of it as a learning tool, and get your primary learning effort done before you invest in a premium barrel. IMHO, investing money into modifying a factory barrel is not cost effective, and this is an especially good reason to seek out a gently used rifle. The barrel will be ready for replacement sooner, and the initial cost should be more reasonable. Use that barrel up and replace it with a new barrel that's set up to premium standards from the start. For one thing, I suspect you'll appreciate it more. Further, truing really isn't going to make a lot of sense until that new barrel enters the mix anyway.

... and, as I am certain others will echo; employing a simple, basic, reliable .22LR bolt gun to carry the bulk of the marksmanship training load will save ammo costs and centerfire bore life in the long run, while reducing the need to find longer distances in order to generate a marksmanship challenge. Consistency outweighs inherent accuracy in choosing the rifle. I use a Savage MKIIF .22LR as my trainer, and it's highly adequate. Shooting a .22LR at 100yd can go a long way toward developing marksmanship excellence.

IMHO, any range club that discourages such shooting may not be the best choice. Honestly, shooting the centerfire beyond 100yd before you can ace an NRA 100yd Smallbore target may be mildly premature.

Greg

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO, any range club that discourages such shooting may not be the best choice. Honestly, shooting the centerfire beyond 100yd before you can ace an NRA 100yd Smallbore target may be mildly premature.

Greg </div></div>

Are you talking about aceing the A25 @ 100 yds with a .22 or with the centerfire rifle? I can certainly do it with my .17 HMR Browning t-bolt and even with my .223 Bushmaster Custom. Without even trying, I'm pretty sure I<span style="font-style: italic"> <span style="font-weight: bold">can't</span> </span>do it with a .22 LR. Perhaps I've never shot the right ammunition. I will be very disappointed if I cannot put ten rounds in 1" with this .308 after it's broken in.

Bob

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

I am talking about the official NRA A-25 100yd smallbore target, .22LR, prone. Maybe I'm being a bit too demanding, I have trouble with it too.

Greg

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Took it to the range yesterday. I will post some pics of groups later but overall I didn't shoot well. It was pretty windy and the X-mark trigger absolutely sucks. It was very inconsistent. I didn't try adjusting it or oiling it so maybe I didn't give it a fair evaluation.

I was pretty unstable also. I was shooting seated at a table using the bipod. I forgot my sniper sock so I was bracing the buttstock with my hand and my pulse was throwing the reticle all over the place. Best 5-round group of the day was probably 1.5" with Black Hills 168gr A-max. I haven't measured the groups yet, not that it really matters.

Anyway, I put 80 rounds through it so it's on its way to being broken in and I now know that I will replace the trigger. I might look for a little thicker recoil pad also; my shoulder is a little sore today.

One more thing; can anyone point me toward any good articles on how to smooth out the action? The bolt moves very coarsely in the reciever and tends to stick if any side load is applied.

Bob

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Just ordered the Rifle Basix 8oz-2lb trigger from Midway. Won't be able to get back to the range for a couple weeks though.

Bob

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Well, finally got back to the range today. Fired 60 rounds of Hornady 168gr A-max. They were rounds 81-140 through the gun.

First sheet was zeroing and getting used to the new trigger. I think it is set a little too light for me.

Second sheet wan't much better until the last target. The rifle just seemed to become more accurate.

Third sheet, I really wasn't happy with the accuracy as I felt I was shooting better than what I was getting.

Don't really know what to make of the fourth sheet. I'm going to blame the last target on the coffee jitters.

My average group for the day is 1.100". Just the last five groups (including the worst of the day 1.430" group) average is .995". Obviously there is room for improvement in the rifle, the load and myself.

Bob

 

[Peepaw]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

Well Bob, I think once you get back into wing of things you will be happy. Me personally, I like giving something a TRUE evaluation before I start changing things. WAy I see it is, maybe it's teh trigger, maybe it's you. Maybe it's the stock, maybe its you. Maybe it's the ammo, or maybe it's the trigger.
Follow me?

When I bought my frist rifle for LR shooting, I spent the better part of 6-8 months at 100 yards with changing NOTHING but ammo. Never touched teh trigger, swapped out teh stock, nothing. I wanted to get a TRUE baseline out of her. Now, does it REALLy take that long to get a baseline? Of course not. But, since Im just starting out with LR shooting, I need practice, and at 100 yards is where I feel comfortable. I can now say that at 100 yards, Ive got it down pat, and my rifle (basically, same as yours...R700 26" Varmint SPS .308) is a sub MOA rifle, and with Hornady 168 BTHP, it's a 1/2" MOA every time out.
Last couple/few months, been stretching its legs out to 200 and 300 yards to see how she does.


basically my point is, you have a shooter in your hands, and I would put a few more rounds down it before you jumped to any conclusions.
Granted, I know you have a TON of experience behind the trigger, and it's like riding a bike...I just dont beleive in throwing money around at things that may or may not fix something.

BTW, THANKS for serving our country and protecting our freedom. It's an honor having you on board.

 

[Ranger Bob]

Re: Building first rifle, got some questions

I hear ya Peepaw. I don't see myself making any big changes for a while. I may replace the factory bottom metal so I can get a little more torque on the action screws. Other than that, I think it's just going to be trying different loads and getting plenty of trigger time. I know my long range skills are rusty but I have shot better with my wifes out-of-the-box SPS Varmint chambered in .223. I really don't want to sit at 100yds punching groups but I think I should be shooting consistent 1/2" groups before I make the long trek to a deeper range.

Bob