building new rifle- advantage of 6.5 creed over my .308 rnd

[katysdad]

currently shooting .308 155 lapua scenar over 46.6 RL-15. MV is 2960 (transonic at about 1250yds).
What would I gain by chambering new build in 6.5 creed (would most likely shoot 140 eld or prime 130's).
Other than new dies/new brass/new powder/shits and giggles/higher ninja rating
less recoil?

 

[jcmullis2]

About 200 yards and new dies/new brass/new powder/shits and giggles/higher ninja rating
less recoil

 

[hereinaz]

Its simple to compare ballistics. Plug it all into a ballistic calculator. The 6.5 cm is better in every way for precision. Question is whether it is that much better for your purposes.

Recoil is marginally less.
Shooting cost is pretty much a wash.
Barrel life to the 308.
Also all the SHTF arguments about 308, lol.

What do you like/want and what is your purpose?

 

[want2learn]

here's a nice comparison of the .308 to the 6.5 Creedmoor

6.5 Creedmoor vs. .308 Winchester | Field & Stream

Both the .308 Winchester and the 6.5 Creedmoor offer all-around performance for a variety of hunting and shooting applications, but there can be only one winner. Petzal weighs in and compares these two cartridges for accuracy, recoil, and effectiveness on

www.fieldandstream.com

i have both calibers and for my purposes of target and long range training i find the 6.5 Creedmoor to be a much more enjoyable round to work with......perhaps it has a lot to do with it's recoil characteristic/quality but it feels so much more forgiving to me and i find that very important.

While you didn't ask, I thought i might also add a consideration for the 6.5x47 Lapua which is another very nice caliber (accurate, long life, comfortable to shoot) however it's less readily available commercially which is a drawback. The 6mm variants sound great as well, even more forgiving..... but i'm told barrel life suffers and while barrels are consumables good quality ones are not inexpensive.

 

[UpSideDown]

If you want to shoot precision, 6.5cm. Match ammo for it is dirt cheap now.

If you want to hunt up to elk, .308, or hunt up to mule deer, either one.

Most of the comparisons I see that say the .308 is a slow and worthless round compared to the 6.5 seem to completely skip over modern cartridges. There isn’t that big of a difference. I don’t care if there’s .6 mil elevation difference at 700 yards. If you get a 16” 308 and shoot mil spec FMJ it’s going to look like a rainbow, sure.

wind drift is better in 6.5 and you can get more reasonable range out of 6.5 than .308.

 

[varifleman]

Sooooo- If I we’re to rebarrel my 308 to 6.5 and shoot one load for 800-1000 what are good barrel recommendations. I have a 11.25 MTU 24 inch barrel on my 308 now. McMillan baker special stock. Remington action.
thanks. Makers , contour and twist rate would be appreciated. This would be a target rifle
Thanks

 

[want2learn]

one way of addressing this question is to first identify what projectile you prefer or need and then you can evaluate your choices using ballistic calculators to see how they behave based on your need, barrel length, conditions etc.

in general heavier weight, higher BC projectiles are thought to do a bit better when dealing with some of the effects of wind at longer distances. for myself and my particular rifle i've found lower weight projectiles can often be more comfortable to shoot particularly at the shorter distances that if i'm honest with myself i tend to shoot at most commonly.

I shoot at lower altitude ranges, mild temperatures and shorter ranges of 300 yards and more rarely up to 1k yards..... so for me projectiles in the range of 130gn to 144gn seem to work well for me and my rifle.

here's one example of such a calculator, there are many others as well. you might consider downloading one to you mobile phone: https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
play with the calculator and try out some different scenarios

In general it seems most tend to choose either a 1:8 or a 1:7.5 twist rates.

for prone position longer range shooting where longer and heavier rifle barrels might be favored it seems most tend to prefer 24-27inch length barrels. the longer and heavier the barrel, the longer and heavier the gun...so if you're doing a lot of walking or climbing you might strongly consider that when making your choice. I had to go out a purchase a new rifle case because my new barrel exceeded the dimension of my old case. I don't hunt or climb with my rifle so heavier barrels work well for me.

please take a lot of this with a grain of salt as so much of this depends on your preference and needs etc.

 

[BikePilot]

Bartlein does a really nice barrel. I went 26” and it suits me well. Profile I’d do whatever you liked in 308. Accuracy will be similar and the main factor in profile is your desired weight and balance. 8 twist is standard and I don’t see people deviating from that much.

 

[hlee]

Just ran some numbers through strelok...

155 scenar at 2960 and 10 mph 90 deg wind has a correction of 1 mrad at 500 yards.
A 147 eld-m at 2700 has a 0.7 mrad correction in the same conditions at the same range.

The 6.5 doesn’t catch the 308 in drop until 925 yards, but by that time the wind difference is 1.4 mrad to 2.1 favoring the 6.5.

Based on a cursory search, your 308 load may be “warm”-or at least on the upper end- but a 147 at 2700 from a 6.5 is pretty meh- factory Hornady match is doing that. I’m not pushing mine, and I’m not really a speed freak, so others can tell you how fast you can reasonably go with handloads. I say that just to say that the above numbers are comparing an upper end handload to a factory offering. And, if youre shooting a Palma load, you may be running a pretty long barrel. My 6.5 numbers are from a RPR with a 24” barrel.

Less wind. Less recoil. More hits...

 

[Huskydriver]

currently shooting .308 155 lapua scenar over 46.6 RL-15. MV is 2960 (transonic at about 1250yds).
What would I gain by chambering new build in 6.5 creed (would most likely shoot 140 eld or prime 130's).
Other than new dies/new brass/new powder/shits and giggles/higher ninja rating
less recoil?

What length barrel are you getting to 2960 mv and how did you verify that speed?

 

[katysdad]

About 200 yards and new dies/new brass/new powder/shits and giggles/higher ninja rating
less recoil

What length barrel are you getting to 2960 mv and how did you verify that speed?

26" mike rock 5R barrel/rem 700 action(old gap trued) chrono with Labradar and magnetospeed.
Match chamber I did on my old grizzly lathe. This is a 15 year old GAP rifle on McMillan A5 stock that I rebarreled 4-5 years ago.
Now >3k rounds down barrel so time to rebuild. Just not sure if I should 6.5 (FOMO coolness) or just be an old guy stuck in ...........308.
Seems like every rifle class lately, everybody has new 6 caliber modular wanna be tactical rifle too heavy to shoot offhand or run with.
Don't hunt and not a sniper/prs shooter. Just an almost 70 year old shooting steel 1 MOA out to 1K.

 

[brianf]

being a older guy i say you should go for the least recoil you can find.

of the 2... 6.5

 

[Superjet]

This sums it up. On a serious note you would be getting less recoil and wind deviation. How long do your primer pockets last with your current load?

 

[fdkay]

I was out at the range on Sunday.
I happened to be shooting a rather heavy, 6.5x55 and my .308.
last week, I had also been shooting my 7-08 match rifle.

My .308 isn't heavy, it sports a 20" Schneider SR60 contour barrel, but sits in a KRG Bravo. I was shooting 168's from a bench. recoil was surprisingly brisk after shooting the 6.5x55 loaded with 147 ELD-M, it was also quite a bit more brisk than shooting my 7-08 loaded with 162 ELD-M at 2900 fps.
All shooting was done suppressed.

The recoil of the .308 wasn't punishing, but I could see it being tiring after 20 rounds or so. It was impossible to stay on target during recoil (I couldn't ;oad the bipod on the bench).
The recoil impulse for the 6.5 and 7 was very different from the .308 and may have been primarily due to the slower powders, the .308 was abrupt while the 6.5 and 7 seemed more of a push.

 

[jcmullis2]

From one older guy to another BrianF makes a lot of sense. You are at an advantage since you aren’t running and trying to shoot offhand. I think the 6.5 Creeds lighter recoil allows me to shoot more. The hellfire muzzle brake and a heavy chassis makes it like shooting a 22LR.

 

[katysdad]

This sums it up. On a serious note you would be getting less recoil and wind deviation. How long do your primer pockets last with your current load?
View attachment 7407569

don't know about primer pocket longevity. used to shoot at Thunder Ranch and Rifles Only 2000-2011 black hills match ammo(before reloading), so I have
about 5-6 thousand pieces of prepped brass. Dont think I will ever get to 2nd reloads

 

[katysdad]

Really appreciate all the comments and opinions. Looks like I need to get with the program 2020's.
SO---- MDTchassis/impact action/ bartlein barrel(s) 6.5 creedmore it is. based on web sites I should have parts in 6-8 months
to start project. Going to rebarrel old gap still in .308 just in case.
Thank you all.

 

[Superjet]

don't know about primer pocket longevity. used to shoot at Thunder Ranch and Rifles Only 2000-2011 black hills match ammo(before reloading), so I have
about 5-6 thousand pieces of prepped brass. Dont think I will ever get to 2nd reloads

Good problem to have with the brass. Has accuracy dropped off at 3k rounds or are you just replacing the barrel so it doesn’t give up on you?
Also have you ever shot a similar weight rifle in 6.5? That’d be the easy thing to do and would help you make the decision. I went from 308 to 6.5x47 and find it much more enjoyable to shoot.

 

[supercorndogs]

If you want to shoot precision, 6.5cm. Match ammo for it is dirt cheap now.

If you want to hunt up to elk, .308, or hunt up to mule deer, either one.

Most of the comparisons I see that say the .308 is a slow and worthless round compared to the 6.5 seem to completely skip over modern cartridges. There isn’t that big of a difference. I don’t care if there’s .6 mil elevation difference at 700 yards. If you get a 16” 308 and shoot mil spec FMJ it’s going to look like a rainbow, sure.

wind drift is better in 6.5 and you can get more reasonable range out of 6.5 than .308.

I always have a good laugh when someone said the 6.5 Creed isn't enough for Elk.

I can't even start to understand the reasoning behind the 6.5 Creed not being enough for Elk, but the flying pig being enough. Elk aren't that big and they aren't that hard to kill. I would hate to guess how many moose have been taken with a 6.5x55. I bet dollars to donuts a 143 ELDM will penetrate than 178 a max, pushed at the same pressure in those two cartridges. The 143 will probably have more energy target before you get out very far. Not that i feel like that matters.

I didn't buy a tag for the mountains this year, but I will probably buy a plains tag, and if I see an elk when I am hunting Deer or Antelope, I will shoot it with my 6mm Creedmoor. Shoot em in the vitals, they die.

 

[hereinaz]

I always have a good laugh when someone said the 6.5 Creed isn't enough for Elk.

I can't even start to understand the reasoning behind the 6.5 Creed not being enough for Elk, but the flying pig being enough. Elk aren't that big and they aren't that hard to kill. I would hate to guess how many moose have been taken with a 6.5x55. I bet dollars to donuts a 143 ELDM will penetrate than 178 a max, pushed at the same pressure in those two cartridges. The 143 will probably have more energy target before you get out very far. Not that i feel like that matters.

I didn't buy a tag for the mountains this year, but I will probably buy a plains tag, and if I see an elk when I am hunting Dear or Antelope, I will shoot it with my 6mm Creedmoor. Shoot em in the vitals, they die.

Old myths are harder to kill than elk...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think it's a simple case of a solution in search of a problem. Reading the original post, just one question comes to mind.

Just what goal does the current rifle fail to meet?

If it ain't broke; don't fix it.

Greg

 

[steve123]

The answer is plain and simple, do you want to shoot more and hit less, or shoot less and hit more??? It's all about BC and velocity, the more you have of both those combined the less missing that will happen - WIND, and there will almost assuredly be wind the time you decide to go shoot long range.

It feels a lot better hitting stuff, you'll be more satisfied with the days outcome, and come home with more ammo.

If you reload try a 25 Creedmoor using those 131gr BlackJacks with a .69BC going 2950!!!

I shoot 140 hybrids at 3175 fps out of my 6.5 Saum, which gets the job done nicely.