Building Rifle around 195 EOL with Surgeon 1086 Long Action

[RobbW]

I currently have a 7mm REM mag built off a Surgeon 1086 Long Action In a J Allen Long Chassis.

Im looking to rebarrel to specifically fit the 195 Berger EOL bullets out of a magazine. Which caliber would best fit this existing action I have with a detachable AICS (300 win mag) magazine on the J Allen?

I was thinking the newly announced 7PRC would give more room for the longer bullets to be seated properly with similar ballistics to the 7 rem mag but I get that it may take a while for brass to become readily available. I’m obviously fine reloading for the best setup.

Id be open to the cartridge that you think will fit the best while retaining the best performance. I’d be interested in the 28 nosler or keeping the 7 rem mag but was concerned I’d only be able to load 180’s successfully without running out of room or shorting case capacity. I definitely want to keep the magnum numbers. I’d also be ok picking up different magazines or changing the J Allen out to a different stock if any of these is the limiting factor. But I’d rather keep the surgeon 1086 action if all else works around that.

thanks for the suggestions.

Robb

 

[Hoyt7mm]

What's your intended use?

If you're talking long round count/long range hunting, I'd look at something like a 7-300PRC, 7 Sherman Mag (7-300PRC Improved), maybe 7-300 Norma Improved. You'll be able to load 175-195 class bullets long and still fit in a CIP magazine. 195s at 3100+ is a pretty amazing combo, and all of the above cartridges have Lapua brass.

If you're looking to get setup for something like Nightforce, then a 7 SAUM throated long would be a good choice. Same with 7 Sherman Max (7 Saum Improved). 190-195s can be sent steadily in the 2800s, and even though there isn't Lapua brass, ADG makes really good stuff too. 7 PRC would also be a good choice, but I'm not sure what the timeline will be for Lapua to come out with brass.

 

[fdkay]

The 7mmLRM was specifically designed to handle the long heavy bullets.
Gunwerks recommends the CIP length mags for that though.
If you are okay with going to a new chassis, there are several that offer the ability to use the CIP length magazines, which give you a bit bit more length.

Whiskey-3 Chassis – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

If you are limited to the standard length, you may need to look at the 7mm SAUM, loaded long.
Another option is the Sherman Short Mag.

https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/sherman-max

 

[orkan]

In my opinion, the 195 is best in a 7mm norma mag improved, which you don't have the bolt face for... so the next step down but in the same class would be a 28 nosler.

Personally, for smaller 7mm cartridges such as the 7LRM, WSM, SAUM, PRC... I'd stick with a 175 elite hunter, 180 hybrid, or something in that class.

 

[RobbW]

I already have several 6.5 prc builds which I think are great. Wanted to also have a reasonable weight rifle that can reach out even farther at a bigger caliber without too much recoil. Just trying to figure out best bc on 195 bullets and how best to shoot those. Was not sure my existing 7 rem mag was the best fit for those.

Application is going longest distance with existing action out to a mile for targets. Also option for longer range hunting with flattest shooting / most energy.

This was the email response I got back from Berger today:

Thank you for contacting us at Capstone PG. We would tend to agree with you that the 7 PRC will be a very good cartridge from what we are seeing with the preliminary information that has been coming out with it and we do intend to work with it once we are set up to work with it. Until then the 7mm Remington Magnum is still a standard in the caliber that continues to perform well and with our 195gr EOL Elite Hunter bullet is set at a COAL of 3.403". The 28 Nosler continues to be deservedly popular and we show it at a COAL of 3.493" in our data for this application. There is a proprietary cartridge that could be considered and it is the 7mm Long Range Magnum (LRM) and we show a COAL of 3.410" with the 195gr EOL Elite Hunter bullet. We hope that this information will prove to be useful and do not hesitate to get back with any of us with the Capstone Tech Team if we can be of further assistance.

 

[KineticPerformance]

You can definitely do it with the 7mmRM. I have a long throat reamer for that bullet.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I have a hunting rifle that has a 24" barrel chambered in 28 nosler. Slings them at 3050 fps with the 195s and low single digit SDs. 80gr of 8133 is what I setteled on. Suppressor on there is a TBAC Ultra 5. COAL is 3.675. ADG Brass and 215m primers.

Not too concerned about barrel life in these hunting guns and would do this same rifle again for the 195s.

If I didn't go this route I was heavily debating the 7mm Norma Mag. No use in trying to push the heavy pills super hard out of the smaller cartridges. Why I ended up at the 28 nosler. Pretty much the easy button for the 195s without anything too complicated.

 

[RobbW]

I think 28 nosler looks to be the choice. I’ll see if magazines or chassis need to be changed. Thanks to the group for the input.

 

[FuhQ]

I currently have a 7mm REM mag built off a Surgeon 1086 Long Action In a J Allen Long Chassis.

Im looking to rebarrel to specifically fit the 195 Berger EOL bullets out of a magazine. Which caliber would best fit this existing action I have with a detachable AICS (300 win mag) magazine on the J Allen?

I was thinking the newly announced 7PRC would give more room for the longer bullets to be seated properly with similar ballistics to the 7 rem mag but I get that it may take a while for brass to become readily available. I’m obviously fine reloading for the best setup.

Id be open to the cartridge that you think will fit the best while retaining the best performance. I’d be interested in the 28 nosler or keeping the 7 rem mag but was concerned I’d only be able to load 180’s successfully without running out of room or shorting case capacity. I definitely want to keep the magnum numbers. I’d also be ok picking up different magazines or changing the J Allen out to a different stock if any of these is the limiting factor. But I’d rather keep the surgeon 1086 action if all else works around that.

thanks for the suggestions.

Robb

As much as I love the 7mm RemMag, and I've been shooting it as my main deer cartridge for 20+ years, the .28 Nosler would fit your bill a little bit better. Get a .300 RUM AICS mag, should still fit in the same bottom metal. You'll be set.

 

[FuhQ]

I think 28 nosler looks to be the choice. I’ll see if magazines or chassis need to be changed. Thanks to the group for the input.

.28 Nosler is based on the .404 Jeffery, same as the 7 RUM & .300 RUM. You won't be able to use the .300 WinMag magazine. You will need an AICS .300 RUM magazine.

 

[FuhQ]

@RobbW Whatever you do, be sure to get a 1:8 twist barrel for those 195's to ensure they'll stabilize in all conditions and elevations.

 

[RobbW]

1:8 sounds good. I have a 1:8.7 on my current rem mag and that is only marginal for the 195. So thanks for the tip.

Robb

 

[Jbenevides89]

I am shooting the 195s in my 7RM at 2900 right now. SAAMI chamber 1:8.5 twist 27" Carbon 6 barrel and its half moa or better. I plan to throat it after this season and see if I can squeeze another 100 fps out of it. I would not discount the rem mag, and I am sure anything else you pick that is optimized around that bullet will get you past 3k fps.

 

[Edds]

........ I’d also be ok picking up different magazines or changing the J Allen out to a different stock if any of these is the limiting factor. But I’d rather keep the surgeon 1086 action if all else works around that.

thanks for the suggestions.

Robb

I was at the Surgeon shop buying an action, when they were in OK, and they showed me 1086 actions actions and bottom metal that was made specifically for a 28 Nosler cartridge. They referred to them as 1086 WSM actions.

 

[3rdfocal]

I had a 28 nosler shooting 195's. Surgeon 1086, 26" bartlien. Worked great, very accurate, 3120 fps if I remember right. Crazy flat. That action was awesome, super smooth. I'd do it again if I was ok with the terrible barrel life.