I was ready to buy a Savage 10 HS Precision or FCP-SR in .308 and all the necessary goodies to learn the way of the precision bolt rifle. Then I had a revalation...I already have a fair amount of bulk .233 ammo, brass and dies so why not start in that caliber? I'll reload in whatever caliber I end up with, but with Lake City 55 and 62 grain on hand .223 would be cost and time effective for high volume practice. Would I be wasting time and ammo trying to get "sniper acceptable" results at 600 yards with this stuff in say a Savage Precision Carbine? If I have to buy or build match ammo I'd rather have the 308.
Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
- Thread starter packheat
- Start date
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
I just got a savage 10fcp in 223 and was shooting american eagle 55gn out to 480 yards today with easy easy hits on a 6 and 10 inch plate. The stuff grouped .5 at 100 during sight in.
We tried them at 650 and they didn't seem to do so well....
I just got a savage 10fcp in 223 and was shooting american eagle 55gn out to 480 yards today with easy easy hits on a 6 and 10 inch plate. The stuff grouped .5 at 100 during sight in.
We tried them at 650 and they didn't seem to do so well....
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
Depends. If "sniper acceptable" means ringing an 18" gong at 600 yards, you might be able to get away with cheap ammo. On the other hand, if you want to be getting first round hits on smaller targets, it's not going to do the job.
In my opinion, you should be shooting good ammunition. Otherwise, you won't know whether or not you pulled the shot, or it was caused by the ammunition. You want to be able to see your own progress and improvement, and I don't think you'll be able to shooting bulk ammo.
By the way, it's cheaper to load for .223 than .308. Nosler CC bullets in .223 cost $0.16 each from Midway. Powder charge is half that of .308.
Depends. If "sniper acceptable" means ringing an 18" gong at 600 yards, you might be able to get away with cheap ammo. On the other hand, if you want to be getting first round hits on smaller targets, it's not going to do the job.
In my opinion, you should be shooting good ammunition. Otherwise, you won't know whether or not you pulled the shot, or it was caused by the ammunition. You want to be able to see your own progress and improvement, and I don't think you'll be able to shooting bulk ammo.
By the way, it's cheaper to load for .223 than .308. Nosler CC bullets in .223 cost $0.16 each from Midway. Powder charge is half that of .308.
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
i plan on building up a 223 as well soon and will use bull ammo just for kicks out to 300 and then spring for the good stuff when i want to reach out a bit with better accuracy.
same could be done with my 308 but it still wouldn't be as cheap as shooting the 223 bulk.
of course my favorite "plinker" is my 22. shooting a 22 past 100 yards accurately can be a lot of fun with the right company and waaay cheaper. that and the basic fundamentals still apply.
main thing to remember in my book is to have fun and try to learn as much as you can. as long as your having fun and learning then thats what matters i think.
i plan on building up a 223 as well soon and will use bull ammo just for kicks out to 300 and then spring for the good stuff when i want to reach out a bit with better accuracy.
same could be done with my 308 but it still wouldn't be as cheap as shooting the 223 bulk.
of course my favorite "plinker" is my 22. shooting a 22 past 100 yards accurately can be a lot of fun with the right company and waaay cheaper. that and the basic fundamentals still apply.
main thing to remember in my book is to have fun and try to learn as much as you can. as long as your having fun and learning then thats what matters i think.
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
UMC 55gr Metal Case shoots 10 rounds into less than an inch in my 1:9 Savage barrel at 100yards, and provided very easy hits on a 8" plate at 225yd (the furthest I tried).
I have used Hornady 75gr Steel Match to 650yds, and it provided repeatable hits on the same size plate when I didn't dork up the wind call. 5-shot group at 105yds was 0.65". I was pretty impressed for <$25 per 50 rounds.
IMO, if all you're doing is punching paper or hitting steel to 600yards a properly built 223 gives up little or nothing to a 308 and is 2/3 the cost per round or less.
UMC 55gr Metal Case shoots 10 rounds into less than an inch in my 1:9 Savage barrel at 100yards, and provided very easy hits on a 8" plate at 225yd (the furthest I tried).
I have used Hornady 75gr Steel Match to 650yds, and it provided repeatable hits on the same size plate when I didn't dork up the wind call. 5-shot group at 105yds was 0.65". I was pretty impressed for <$25 per 50 rounds.
IMO, if all you're doing is punching paper or hitting steel to 600yards a properly built 223 gives up little or nothing to a 308 and is 2/3 the cost per round or less.
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
Two scenarios:
An experienced shooter with a better than average firearm wants to practice at significant distance. Generally, anything of lesser quality than their customary match ammo is not going to provide an effective indicator of their performance.
That same experienced shooter wants to practice at short distance, perhaps to try variances in their shooting technique. At the shorter distance, ammunition is not as critical a variable, and bulk ammo will probably perform well enough to make a cost saving beneficial. Remember, part of that cost saving is measured in handloading time savings.
Personally, I'd be doing that sort of practice with a rimfire, but somewhere afterward, I'd be doing some C/F shooting to confirm my findings.
Then, there's the beginner. I'm placing my rifle into the hands of a beginner, bringing them up to speed on safe firearms handling and the manual skills involved in basic rifle operation. In essence, handloaded match ammo is going to be wasted in such a process.
While the rimfire can do this too, representative levels of noise and recoil need to be parts of this process.
Also, the expended bulk brass becomes a raw component material for handloading.
Greg
Two scenarios:
An experienced shooter with a better than average firearm wants to practice at significant distance. Generally, anything of lesser quality than their customary match ammo is not going to provide an effective indicator of their performance.
That same experienced shooter wants to practice at short distance, perhaps to try variances in their shooting technique. At the shorter distance, ammunition is not as critical a variable, and bulk ammo will probably perform well enough to make a cost saving beneficial. Remember, part of that cost saving is measured in handloading time savings.
Personally, I'd be doing that sort of practice with a rimfire, but somewhere afterward, I'd be doing some C/F shooting to confirm my findings.
Then, there's the beginner. I'm placing my rifle into the hands of a beginner, bringing them up to speed on safe firearms handling and the manual skills involved in basic rifle operation. In essence, handloaded match ammo is going to be wasted in such a process.
While the rimfire can do this too, representative levels of noise and recoil need to be parts of this process.
Also, the expended bulk brass becomes a raw component material for handloading.
Greg
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
Thanks guys, these are all quality answers that echo the thoughts in my head. I really wanted a 308 since I already have a solid varmint rifle in .22-250 but it sounds like a 223 will do what I want and do it cheap. What I save by not buying 308 match ammo I can put toward a 22lr understudy.
One last question, is the lake city brass suitable for match grade handloads?
Thanks guys, these are all quality answers that echo the thoughts in my head. I really wanted a 308 since I already have a solid varmint rifle in .22-250 but it sounds like a 223 will do what I want and do it cheap. What I save by not buying 308 match ammo I can put toward a 22lr understudy.
One last question, is the lake city brass suitable for match grade handloads?
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
When I have to use store bought .223, I use the Ultramax reload with 68gr Hornady bthp, it has been very satisfactory and the cost isnt bad either.
When I have to use store bought .223, I use the Ultramax reload with 68gr Hornady bthp, it has been very satisfactory and the cost isnt bad either.
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
You can learn a great deal with a good .223 and one thing you might learn is that you do not need a .308 as much as you think. Esp if you shoot to "only" 600 yards. I find myself shooting the .223 more and more.
RTH
You can learn a great deal with a good .223 and one thing you might learn is that you do not need a .308 as much as you think. Esp if you shoot to "only" 600 yards. I find myself shooting the .223 more and more.
RTH
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packheat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One last question, is the lake city brass suitable for match grade handloads?</div></div>
I have used LC brass almost exclusively for my AR-15 service rifle loads since 1992. My loads have always shot as well or better than FGMM.
If FGMM is a limiting factor on your scores, you may way want to try other brass, but I think you can certainly do well with LC. I have often been able to pick up once-fired LC brass at very favorable prices, and the brass has been very durable. Even without annealing, I was getting about 8 loads per case before retiring them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packheat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One last question, is the lake city brass suitable for match grade handloads?</div></div>
I have used LC brass almost exclusively for my AR-15 service rifle loads since 1992. My loads have always shot as well or better than FGMM.
If FGMM is a limiting factor on your scores, you may way want to try other brass, but I think you can certainly do well with LC. I have often been able to pick up once-fired LC brass at very favorable prices, and the brass has been very durable. Even without annealing, I was getting about 8 loads per case before retiring them.
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
Consider Hornady Steel Match for practice shooting. I was shooting bulk ammo and was so random I couldnt tell if it was me or the ammo or even the rifle.
With Steel Match 75gn I was shooting a lot more consistent for less money than true match rounds. My best was a 1" 5 shot group at 120yds off a rickety-ass folding table and camping chair. The only problem is the steel cases aren't recommended for reloading.
I bought 200 rds for $95 shipped.
Consider Hornady Steel Match for practice shooting. I was shooting bulk ammo and was so random I couldnt tell if it was me or the ammo or even the rifle.
With Steel Match 75gn I was shooting a lot more consistent for less money than true match rounds. My best was a 1" 5 shot group at 120yds off a rickety-ass folding table and camping chair. The only problem is the steel cases aren't recommended for reloading.
I bought 200 rds for $95 shipped.
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
For my 223's I use ammo from three sources; Fed 55gr bulk 100 packs, Prvi-Partizan 69gr and 75gr Match sold in sealed plastic bag packs of 10 boxes, and handloads made with fired brass from either. For the most part, the commercial stuff is used to train the Granddaughter, and the fired brass is the dividend.
I've seldom had issues with Fed brass, but the volume of brass obtained from the bulk packs also ensures a large enough pool of brass that I rarely end up loading any of them enough times to reveal any longevity issues. My only prep with both brands is flash hole reaming, and so far, the Prvi brass is working very nicely. No primer crimps.
I was planning on using the HDY 75gr Steel Match exclusively in my Stag 6, but then I tried the Prvi and never looked back. It shoots quite well, but not on a par with my handloads. My dealer stocks the Prvi, so I just pick and pay (about $110-120 per 200); the Steel Match needs to be ordered.
Greg
For my 223's I use ammo from three sources; Fed 55gr bulk 100 packs, Prvi-Partizan 69gr and 75gr Match sold in sealed plastic bag packs of 10 boxes, and handloads made with fired brass from either. For the most part, the commercial stuff is used to train the Granddaughter, and the fired brass is the dividend.
I've seldom had issues with Fed brass, but the volume of brass obtained from the bulk packs also ensures a large enough pool of brass that I rarely end up loading any of them enough times to reveal any longevity issues. My only prep with both brands is flash hole reaming, and so far, the Prvi brass is working very nicely. No primer crimps.
I was planning on using the HDY 75gr Steel Match exclusively in my Stag 6, but then I tried the Prvi and never looked back. It shoots quite well, but not on a par with my handloads. My dealer stocks the Prvi, so I just pick and pay (about $110-120 per 200); the Steel Match needs to be ordered.
Greg
Re: Bulk .223 ammo worth shooting in a bolt gun?
I have a Surgeon in 223 and I shoot Fiocchi extrema 50gr vmax for pdogs. It does the job and I think it really depends what you are looking to do with it. If I want to practice my shooting skills and I am going for "groups", I use hornady 75gr match. The barrel is a 1-8 twist btw.
I have a Surgeon in 223 and I shoot Fiocchi extrema 50gr vmax for pdogs. It does the job and I think it really depends what you are looking to do with it. If I want to practice my shooting skills and I am going for "groups", I use hornady 75gr match. The barrel is a 1-8 twist btw.
