Bullet depth/OAL/Varget questions

[tucansam]

OK. So I've just loaded with H335 and Varget, both for the first time. 75gr AMAX seated to 2.26" as per the reloading manual, but seems a little "deep" compared to other ammo, could just be the contour of the bullet, but I'm already worried about pressure.

Varget started crunching at about 22.9gr. So much so that trying to seat a 75gr AMAX to the same depth resulted in a very slight disfiguring of the bullet just below the poly tip, presumably as the powder began to "push back" and the die deformed the bullet.

So I increased the overall length to anywhere from 2.28-2.35 depending. Still had some compression near the top of the OCW load table.

Decided to see what my Savage had for room behind the lands. Seated a 75gr AMAX in an empty case to where it just barely kissed the mouth, just enough to hold the bullet in place. The bolt closed on that round with zero additional effort, and there are no rifling marks on the bullet. OAL for that round is 2.58"!!!!!!!

Had no issues with H335 other than it stuck to my pans/trickler/etc. The Varget metered anywhere from 9(!) grains to 35(!) grains, all with the same adjustment of my RCBS Uniflow. Once I got "in the groove" I was able to get throws between 0.2 and 0.4 as far as accuracy. This powder is hard to get to meter right.

So my questions now are, is a 75gr bullet seated to 2.26" OAL going to cause too much pressure? Is 2.58" OAL or more an indication of an issue with my Savage rifle? That seems a little long to me (its 1:9 so I don't think Savage figured on guys shooting 80gr bullets). Will Varget meter better with other brands of powder measures?

 

[Fuzzball]

"Still had some compression near the top of the OCW load table. "

I'm only going to address one of your questions and that's to say the volume of your cases will determine how much they can hold, not some OCW load table.

 

[tucansam]

Right. I am using Winchester commercial brass and the charges I was throwing were landing just about at the start of the shoulder, and then a tad bit higher than that once I started adding 2%. 55gr bullets I'm sure would have seated fine, but since the 75gr are so long, the OAL recommendation from the manual was resulting the the bullets seating deep enough to crunch the powder (at first) and so I decreased seating depth.

I'm more concerned about pressures, although my OAL started at the recommendation from the manual (75gr VLDs in the manual vs the 75gr AMAXs I used)

Mostly wondering if anyone has any experience seating 75gr AMAXs, with or without Varget.

 

[oldfatguy]

Compressed loads are fairly common. My 223 and 308 Varget loads are slightly compressed. Varget does not meter very well, just like most stick powders.

Bullet seating depth should be governed by your chamber's throat length, and the bullets ogive position in relation to the lands. Not by how much powder you can seat a bullet on top of. Good idea to get a gauge and do some measuring to base your seating depths on. Sometimes cartridge length is limited by magazines.

OFG

 

[ToddKS]

If you are encountering enough resistance when seating a bullet to deform it, even slightly...Stop, that is no good.

I would not hesitate to seat the bullet longer based on what you know about your OAL to the lands.

I do not shoot the 75gr Amax in .223, but I have a lot of experience loading .223 with other bullets. Varget is a pain to deal with in the .223. It does not meter well and it likes to stack in the funnel. If you can find a load using H335 that shoots it will be much easier to load as H335 meters very well. Only drawback to H335 that I have experienced is it loses velocity in cold weather more than Varget.

 

[pjparker]

As you have discovered, your rifle will let you seat bullets farther out than the reloading manual says. You, with a bolt action, are not limited to the shorter OAL specified in the manual, since that shorter dimension is dictated by the space available in an AR magazine and not necessarily any specific chamber dimensions.

The good news is that by seating your bullets out to fit your chamber, you effectively increase the internal volume available for powder.

The bad news is that there isn't any published data just for your situation, and you will need to carefully work up loads to exploit your specific situation.

I do not use H335 or Varget with my .223 loads, but I can offer you this:

Rem 700, Krieger 1:8 twist 30" - 75 A-Max, LC 09 brass, 24.8 gr IMR 8208 XBR, CCI 450 primer, seated to 2.550", 3025 fps. You will notice that this is well above Hogdon's published max load, but it is safe in MY rifle and shoots lights out.

A buddy of mine shoots 25.0 8208 with Berger 80 gr VLD's with no pressure signs, but I max out at 24.8 with 80 gr JLK VLD's in mine. The 75 A Max and the 80 gr JLK give me the same velocity with the same powder charge - go figure !

Reloading manual information is generic, at best, and you really have to do your homework. Find the reloading depot thread here on The Hide and go to the .223 page, just realize that reloading for the AR and reloading for a bolt gun are two entirely different critters.

Standard disclaimers, etc.

Paul

 

[Genius.]

What manual are you using where you find the COAL for the Amax being 2.26?

 

[918v]

The 75 Amax is not designed to be seated to 2.260" OAL. At that length the ogjive sits below the case mouth. Load it longer.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I have to disagree on the "bad" metering characteristics of Varget. I find with the 5.56, using an RCBS Powder Drop, I get good enough results, that I only weigh every tenth case or so. I find them to be bang on. To do this, I am very careful to bang the handle at least twice----it depends on how I set up the meter, but when setting it up, i drop three charges and return them to the hopper, and weigh the fourth. You must always be consistent in your method----as in always bang the handle three times, or two hards and a gentle, or one hard and a gentle----you will find that this impacts the exact metering of the powder. You can be very consistent if you work out your method, and then follow it religiously. As I said, once I am set, i measure every tenth round, and the weight is always bang on.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Oh, and spend the money to buy Quick-Load. You can do a lot of load development with that, and then test your findings---still starting low and working up, but using less steps, and often starting with higher base loads. Quick-Load allows you to play with seating depths on paper and see what they are going to do with pressures and velocities. While it will not be exact, it will give you good intel to base your decisions on. Then, you can test velocities with a chrony, and fine tune the data in QL, and it will tell you accurately what you are doing.