Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

[LARMIKE]

I am new here and would like some help. Dont worry it wont involve work. I am a custom bullet maker and I have a new design .30 caliber projo. It is resembles the SMK 175gr. I need 5 people to test them for me, I will be doing the same thing also.I work on FT. Benning. I just want some feedback. So what I am looking for is a capable reloader and certainly must know how to shoot long range. I am just looking for feedback good or bad. I may sell the projos sooner or later. I will try to get a pic attached later. Drop me a PM R/ Mike

[/img]

Added a pic - SMK on top mine on bottom.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

pm sent.

 

[rem700man]

Re: Bullet Test

PM SENT

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Bullet Test

PM sent as well.

 

[teddy12b]

Re: Bullet Test

If you're looking for bullet testers, I am here for you. I have been shooting long range (out to 1000 yards) for a year and a half. I've been a lifelong shooter and usually scored expert by Army standards.
I have a savage 110fp 30-06 that shoots both 168gr & 190gr matchkings into 1/2" or slightly less at 100 yards. I have access to a range that goes out to 1000 yards, and also have access to a chronograph.
My rifle isn't the most expensive or fancy, but it works. I'm not the most seasoned long range shooter in the world, but I can hit targets at 1000 yards enough to put a smile on my face. Let me know if I can help.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Bullet Test

PM sent.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Bullet Test

Here is a sample of my work:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=88364&Number=1124976

 

[hombre]

Re: Bullet Test

PM sent

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

Anyone hear back from him yet?

 

[LARMIKE]

Re: Bullet Test

Thanks guys for the response. I have all the testers I need. I am squishing cores now. I have another jacket order coming in next week. So I will start sending out Projos soon after. I am going to a Match in B'Ham Al. this sat. Thanks again,Mike

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

I got the bullets today, and measured some of them, they are all sized down to much, they all measure .306-.3065 instead of .308

While they do look well made, I cant help but wonder how well these will shoot being undersized.

The next thing that cought my eye was that these do not seem to be polished like Scenars or SMK's, it has a frosty finish to it, once again, I dont know if this will effect how well it shoots, just mentioning the things that cought my attention.

Will report back when I do a range report.

I did a line up next to some other bullets to compare the size, its longer than the 168SMK (as to be expected) but shorter than the Scenar. Sorry the pic is kinda crappy.



From left to right

155 Scenar, LARMIKE 175gr, 168SMK

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Bullet Test

I measured mine, and just above the boat tail is exactly .308. It tapers down a little bit to just under 308 in the meat part of the bullet, (.3075ish). I'll load em up in my 300WM shortly and see how they fly. Weight seems to be pretty consistant. I'll submit full details when I have it.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

right above the BT Im getting .307, Scenars measure .308 so I know my calipers are right on.

 

[steve marshall]

Re: Bullet Test

Calipers aren't accurate to .001". In addition, how are you calibrating yours? Do you have a gage block? In addition, bullets can have quite a range of diameters. SAMMI specs. allow for a 30 caliber bullet to range from .306" to .309".

 

[bohem]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve marshall</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Calipers aren't accurate to .001". In addition, how are you calibrating yours? Do you have a gage block?</span> In addition, bullets can have quite a range of diameters. SAMMI specs. allow for a 30 caliber bullet to range from .306" to .309". </div></div>

I was about to ask the same thing. Put a Mic across a gage block and verify it's within a half thousandth (or hopefully more like 0.0001"), then put it on the bullet and check them.

The Amax's I have measure .3075 with my Mitutoyo digital Calipers. They're not certified but they get the job done for a reloading bench. The micrometer that IS certified finds them .3077-.3079

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

My calipers measure Lapua Scenars at .308, 175 and 168 SMK as .308, and .223 bullets at .224. So like I said, my calipers are on the money.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Bullet Test

Bullets can have diameter differences, just as bores do. Obturation generally takes care of such issues, even minor 'undersize' conditions. The biggest consequences are pressure and velocity differences.

I have shot .355 bullets in .357 bores and vice versa, .308 in .312 bores, and vice versa, and .357 bullets in .358 bores. They all shot fine.

I once read once where someone actually managed to get a .300 Whisper bullet about halfway down a .223 bore. Gedunderblitzen und alles, but it went.

Greg

 

[bohem]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullets can have diameter differences, just as bores do. Obturation generally takes care of such issues, even minor 'undersize' conditions. The biggest consequences are pressure and velocity differences.

I have shot .355 bullets in .357 bores and vice versa, .308 in .312 bores, and vice versa, and .357 bullets in .358 bores. They all shot fine.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I once read once where someone actually managed to get a .300 Whisper bullet about halfway down a .223 bore. Gedunderblitzen und alles, but it went.</span>

Greg </div></div>
Was the chamber in that barrel cut for a 300 Whisper? How'd they get the pilot into the bore? If not, how the heck did they get the round to chamber?

 

[LARMIKE]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">right above the BT Im getting .307, Scenars measure .308 so I know my calipers are right on. </div></div>

I checked a few today,with a set of Certified Mitouyo or however it is spelled. I got .308 and I had a friend check them with another set. got the same size. Well we also check them on an optical comparator. I did not write it down but they are on the money. I have a cheap set of calipers and I got .3065 and .307 even with SMK and Lapuas, but when I used the certified ones It was .308

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

Mike, I wasnt trying to put the product down, just giving first impressions. Which might be useless until I do a proper range report.

 

[junglejim23]

Re: Bullet Test

will be watching this thread

 

[Victory]

Re: Bullet Test

+1

 

[Criver600]

Re: Bullet Test

Looks like you need more core seat pressure. Base of the bullet needs to be flat. I make bullets. If you ever have any questions shoot me an email.

I have been testing different bullets for my Palma rifle. Left to right Sierra 155 SMK #2155, Berger 155.5, CR 156 tangent ogive, CR 156 secant ogive

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Bullet Test

Answers are, I don't know, but the chamber was .223; I read it in an article in <span style="font-style: italic">Precision Shooting</span>.

Greg

 

[USMCj]

Re: Bullet Test

Took some more measurements today with the comparator.

175 LARMIKE
Base to ogive .625"
OAL 1.265"


175 SMK's measure
Base to ogive .655"
OAL 1.240"

155 Lapua
Base to ogive .660"
OAL 1.288"

 

[Hunt]

Re: Bullet Test

Has anyone has a chance to test these yet? How do they compare to SMK 175s? I'm planning on loading some up soon and was going to try my traditional 175 SMK load.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Bullet Test

I'm waiting on some SMK's... want to test them side-by-side.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Bullet Test

Bro
Can i get you to make some bullets for me?
Looking at this as baseline

30 cal 210jlk LBT filled with a alloy of some kind to weigh 155gr
that my friend would be da bomb

http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/

Whatca reckon??

 

[Grump]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Karl2U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bro
Can i get you to make some bullets for me?
Looking at this as baseline

30 cal 210jlk LBT filled with a alloy of some kind to weigh 155gr
that my friend would be da bomb

http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/

Whatca reckon?? </div></div>

I'm not sure that lightening up the 210 would necessarily equal the BC. As I understand it, BC is obtained partially by shape, and partially by weight. From JLK's website, note that the external dimensions of the 175 and the 190 are identical, but the BC is higher for the heavier bullet.

.308
175
1.350
.420
.180
7.5
.060
15
.750
12
.545 That's the BC

190:
.308
190
1.350
.420
.180
7.5
.060
15
.750
12
.602 that's the BC, about .057 higher than the 175.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Bullet Test

Its more than just shape and weight:

175: BC = 0.545
190: BC = 0.602

0.545*190/175 = 0.5917

0.592 would have been the BC if it was just shape and weight.

But along this line of thought. Take one of those longer heavies, drop the lead, and insert someting like bismuth or antimony to get the weight one desires with the shape one desires.

 

[Jedi]

Re: Bullet Test

There ya go thats what i,m thinking

Sure the bc will be lower @155 but it would still be superior to any curently on market

I,m not seeing this has being hard, thou swwamp wouldnt do it even after i offered to pay for a 10k test batch....didnt understand that one!!

The 175 and 190 share same jacket, <span style="font-weight: bold">210 LBT </span>however is much longer, reheck website

<span style="font-weight: bold">210LBT</span> bc = 680 so given a lighter fill gotta fig it will still be close to .600....tell me that wont sell

155gr bullet .600bc betting you could not make them fast enuff.

Just incase bolding type didnt help this refers only to reweighting of <span style="font-weight: bold">210LBT</span>

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Bullet Test

OK, lets say we take that the BC is linearly dependent on the weight (which in the last episode was shown to be slightly more thatn the weight difference)

Taking that 210 LBT with a BC = 0.680
And extrapolating to a 155 gives a BC = 0.680 *155/210 = 0.501
Or about where the Scenars and Bergers are now.
If we are off by the same exponend as my previous post; the arithmetics become:

BC = 0.680 *(155/210)**1.21 = 0.470

Or about what these bullets really fly like "way out there" {G1}.

 

[Grump]

Re: Bullet Test

How much does "shape" affect BC if the ogives and boattails are identical?

I doubt that just stretching the bearing surface, by itself, would change much.

We need Bryan Litz for this part of the inquiry. I'm smart but I ain't no rocket scientist.

 

[EddieP]

Re: Bullet Test

BC is totally dependant on shape, its the co-efficient that shows how much drag is caused in flowing air / fluids.

It is assumed to be weight dependant as heavier bullets for any given diameter and style generally have better BC's. This is because they are longer to get the extra lead in. A hollow jacket will have the same BC, but obviously won't work as it won't have much energy.

Someone else will have to explain which ogives help etc.

 

[Hunt]

Re: Bullet Test

Back on the topic at hand...How deep are people seating the LARMIKE 175s? I'm going to start with an OAL of 2.811 which translates in to a comparator measurement of 3.167.

I'm lighting them in Win. brass, 44.6 gr Varget and a BR2. I have some 175 SMKs to try side by side.

Mike, what OAL have you used?

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BC is totally dependant on shape, its the co-efficient that shows how much drag is caused in flowing air / fluids.</div></div>

This is not correct:

The BC of a perfectly round object increases with increasing size/mass. Round is a static (congruent) shape.

All you have to do to prove this is to take a 1 pound round of lead and a bb of lead and launch them off the same catapult throw and see which one travels farther.

 

[EddieP]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BC is totally dependant on shape, its the co-efficient that shows how much drag is caused in flowing air / fluids.</div></div>

This is not correct:

The BC of a perfectly round object increases with increasing size/mass. Round is a static (congruent) shape.

All you have to do to prove this is to take a 1 pound round of lead and a bb of lead and launch them off the same catapult throw and see which one travels farther.</div></div>

The heavier ball will be bigger, thus have a different (bigger) shape. The mass doesn't affect it, if you hollow out the heavier one the BC will be exactly the same.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Re: Bullet Test

I don't think so. Ping Pong ball vs. Golf Ball

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Bullet Test

The amount of decelerating force exerted on a projectile at supersonic speeds is a pure function of the (unscaled) shape of the projectile. If you want to compare scaled shapes, Renolds numbers (speed times size) come into play.

The longitudinal deceleration of a projectile is based on this aerodynamic drag force and the weight (mass) of the projectile.

A completely hollow bullet of the same shape as a 175 SMK will decelerate much faster the 175 SMK; because the force on the projectile stays constant and the weight has gone way down.

A projectile of the same shape as the 175 SMK but filled with depleted uranium (or tungsten) would declerate at a much lesser rate then a 175 SMK.

BC is a measure of how fast a projectile (does not) decelerate(s).

Don't take my word on it; read the following article:

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/Understanding_part1.pdf

And its companion:

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/Understanding_part2.pdf

 

[EddieP]

Re: Bullet Test

I stand corrected, I was stupidly thinking of drag only.

But hey it started a usefull discussion.

 

[LARMIKE]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: inode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back on the topic at hand...How deep are people seating the LARMIKE 175s? I'm going to start with an OAL of 2.811 which translates in to a comparator measurement of 3.167.

I'm lighting them in Win. brass, 44.6 gr Varget and a BR2. I have some 175 SMKs to try side by side.

Mike, what OAL have you used? </div></div>

They will be different in your gun I have mine loaded to 18 thousands off lands. I just got a bucket-o-Jackets and I made some 175gr. that are 1.298 long. They are purdy. Mike

 

[Jedi]

Re: Bullet Test

Gonna have to say your thinking is outta whack here bro

210LBT is longer n sleeker than any current 155, so in a basic eyeball test 210lbt would win

as weight is 155 period then deciding factor would be shape and to say that 210lbt has same BC as 155 lapua is way off

Ck the measurements they are stated for 210LBT compared to any 155 currently on market its longer sleeker, same bc as 155 berger etc....i dont think so

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Bullet Test

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Karl2U</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gonna have to say your thinking is outta whack here bro

210LBT is longer n sleeker than any current 155, so in a basic eyeball test 210lbt would win

as weight is 155 period then deciding factor would be shape and to say that 210lbt has same BC as 155 lapua is way off

Ck the measurements they are stated for 210LBT compared to any 155 currently on market its longer sleeker, same bc as 155 berger etc....i dont think so</div></div>

If you're referring to MitchA1sup's answer, I think he's saying what you are. If you take two shapes that are the same the heavier one is going to have the higher BC. In your case, where you are suggesting using a lighter core alloy to decrease weight for a given shape it's not a bad idea at all. That's pretty much how Berger makes way higher BC bullets than Sierra. The BC will only drop the amount that the weight relates to the BC. Because your not changing the drag coefficient. Which as you say would put the BC closer to .600 than .500 I'm sure. Nobody believed it until Berger and JLK and some other custom bullet makers came out with their VLD/ULD type bullets. It's exactly what they did. Extended the shape and kept the weight the same. Now, we'll see if it will go to the next step.

Edit:

To explain myself a little further, There are two {edit:}main factors at work when a bullet flies though the air.

1. aerodynamic function or coefficient. This relates to how well a bullet will 'slip' through the air. It comes from shape and the ability to reduce counterforce caused by the air it is flying through. Note that even the best shape can't totally eliminate the force caused on the bullet by air as it passes through it.

2. energy or a function of mass x velocity. The heavier bullet will retain energy longer than the lighter bullet. It will then be able to put the aerodynamic side to work longer.

These two factor working in conjunction with each other are what causes high BC's. If either is lacking, so will the BC.

 

[LARMIKE]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

To everyone that I sent bullets to. Please if you can send me what info you have. if you shot a group that is good, But send me what you have. I know what the length is etc.I made them. I am looking for the BC most of all. Or at least what you have come up with. I am heading to NTC for a month and then over to Iraq for 6 months. So send me what you have. Thanks, Mike

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

Mike,

I'd be interested in some of those bullets if you are still going to make them. If you have some you want to sell now or when you get back send me a PM. I'll be launching them from a 30-06 that generally runs about .6 MOA with 118LR bullets.

 

[LARMIKE]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

Well, No one has shot any??

 

[Grump]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

Yeah, I'm ready for SHOOTING reports on these bullets.

 

[Brain]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

Been awaiting results myself.

While measurements and discussion of such is important in evaluation, I'd really like to know how they're flying.

 

[Hunt]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

Mike,
I have them loaded up but haven't had the time to shoot them yet. As soon as I do, I will give you a range report.

 

[Hunt]

Re: Bullet Test Pic added !!!!

Alright Mike,
I got a chance to test these bullets and must say that they are the CATS ASS!!! I only got a chance to test them at 350 yards yards and I was using an untuned load for this gun. However, they still surprised me and what they looked like on paper.

My charge for these were:
- 44.6 gr Varget
- CCI BR2
- Winchester brass (F/L sized)
- Your bullet
- 2.810 OAL/3.165 Hornady comparator value

The following was shot out of a KMW with a 24" 1/11 twist Krieger barrel with a 95 Palma chamber. It took me 1.9 mils to get me on target at 350 yards. Temperature was 75 deg. F. and elevation was 1769'. With the charge above, the following velocities were obtained with a CED M2 chrono:

2639
2582
2641
2610
2608
2590
2608
2614
2619
2631
2612
2626
2642
2632
2635
2621
2623
2614
2619
2604
2617

ES: 60.0
AV: 2618.4
SD: 15.7

Below are some pics of the targets shot at 350 yards:

Lastly, I had loaded up some 175 SMKs with the same powder charge to see how they fared velocity wise. The 175 SMKs did run quite a bit faster with 44.6 gr. of Varget. For comparison, the SMKs ran the following speeds:

2680
2720
2715
2703
2679
2708
2696
2689
2677