Rifle Scopes Burris XTR II - Return to zero issues

[dntworry]

Burris XTR II 4-20x50mm

Tried on two different rifles same symptoms, POI is consistent if you do not adjust anything but even if i simply turn the elevation turret then back to Zero and fire again, POI will shift.

Primarily mounted on the factory rail of a Tikka T3X CTR 6.5CM using Seekins Precision rings set to 20in/pd (per Seekins FAQ) using a Wheeler FAT wrench. Is it possible this could be caused by a bum set of rings ? I just got the scope back from Burris and they said it checked out fine.

 

[dntworry]

Spoke with Burris this AM and was told the XTR line is made to work with 20MOA rails and this was probably my issue, also the fact that in order to zero the rifle at 100 yards I had to dial 7MOA right there is a clear mount alignment issue.

He suggested getting a 20 MOA rail, also said the Burris XTR Signature Rings would help with alignment. Guess I am getting a pair to test

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Spoke with Burris this AM and was told the XTR line is made to work with 20MOA rails and this was probably my issue, also the fact that in order to zero the rifle at 100 yards I had to dial 7MOA right there is a clear mount alignment issue.

He suggested getting a 20 MOA rail, also said the Burris XTR Signature Rings would help with alignment. Guess I am getting a pair to test

The 20 MOA will certainly offset the 7 MOA used to zero and give you more elevation but I highly doubt that your return to zero issue as described is related to your base or Seekins rings.

Couple of ideas here:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/return-to-zero-failures.6483776/

 

[dntworry]

Lots of interesting information there, mainly related to vert split rings, which I am not using. Just seems lame the only answer I get from Burris is it must be my issue. I had issues getting it to zero properly at 100 yards when I would dial 1 MOA up it would move randomly 1-3inches up then after a few shots stabilize into a position but typically not the 1 MOA from previous POI that I just changed.

I am going to try their rings and they have inserts for 20MOA so I should be able to add that without having to replace the factory rail, hopefully it works out but I am not holding my breath.

EDIT: I also have 2 Sniper's Hide tall targets from B2B, just didnt seem worth shooting at them since I could not even get a good zero at 100y.

 

[Apnea]

Could the screws holding the turret cap be a little loose and letting the cap spin? The turrets on my 3-15 were on the stiff side.

 

[dntworry]

The turrets did seem very stiff but I did not check the screws as I had not re-set the zero was doing the inital sight in having these problems, I will check

 

[Precision Underground]

How much experience do you have with precision rifles? Just asking because I have been guilty in the past of thinking there must surely be something wrong with a scope when the issue was actually me. I didn't know the difference between a good shot and a bad shot. From what I knew the reticle was on the target when the shot broke. What I found out after tons of practice is that I had no idea where the reticle was because I had trigger pull blackout. This is a fraction of a second blackout that happens just as you pull the trigger. It is so fast you can't even process it. The only way I knew I had it is because after tons of practice, one day I pulled the trigger and didn't blackout. It felt completely different. All of the wonder of why shots went where they went made sense after that one trigger pull where there was zero deviation in my mind or my eyes, not even a blink of my eyes.

Maybe you have a lot of experience and know all of this and the scope is wandering but just checking because you sound exactly like me before. I bet I read every word on the internet about wandering zeros because I was 100% sure my scope was wandering. I was 100% sure it was not me. THat all changed once I felt how different a correct shot felt. Now I shoot .3-.5 groups from the dirt with the scope and it always returns to the same zero.

 

[dntworry]

Just getting into 'precision rifles', however I have a R700 300WM that I shoot half moa groups out to 800 yards (max at my range) currently. Not saying I am a perfect shot but you tell me what I should read from this - I place 3 all together to confirm current POI, dial up 1 MOA to get my zero set for 100 yards then 1 shot goes up 2.5 inches and the other 2 are touching about 1.5 inches high - if I then shoot another 3 they would all be right with the two touching but if I dial any other adjustments I get random movements for a couple shots then things iron out and POI is consistent.

 

[Precision Underground]

Just getting into 'precision rifles', however I have a R700 300WM that I shoot half moa groups out to 800 yards (max at my range) currently. Not saying I am a perfect shot but you tell me what I should read from this - I place 3 all together to confirm current POI, dial up 1 MOA to get my zero set for 100 yards then 1 shot goes up 2.5 inches and the other 2 are touching about 1.5 inches high - if I then shoot another 3 they would all be right with the two touching but if I dial any other adjustments I get random movements for a couple shots then things iron out and POI is consistent.

Hard to say but for what it's worth mine "did" the exact same thing when I was going through what I described in the previous post. Thats why I was so sure it was the scope. I pictured the internals moving when the turret was turned and something binding up a bit and then the recoil shaking the reticle into its final resting place. I was sure this was happening. It was me, not the scope.

Not saying you don't have a scope issue. You very well could, Just relaying the issue I had, or thought I had, when getting into PR.

 

[ShtrRdy]

If you could sand bag your rifle solidly while pointing the crosshair at some aiming point, then you could carefully dial the scooe a click at a time to see if the reticle is moving and returning to your starting point.

 

[BigJimFish]

Could the screws holding the turret cap be a little loose and letting the cap spin? The turrets on my 3-15 were on the stiff side.

This happens a lot and is most likely the problem you are having. Often, the cap screws being not quite tight enough can even manifest itself with a sort of pattern to it from the cap slipping the same way, in the same amount, each time. Some companies have gone so far as to try to eliminate this by putting teeth on the outer sleeve of the adjustments making you completely remove them to change the zero.

Nothing else really seems to me to be a good explanation of the pattern you are seeing outside of the scope being borked. I would bet on the loose screws being the ticket though.

 

[dntworry]

Went over everything yesterday, nothing was loose, wish it was that easy. I am going to remount with Burris XTR Signature rings when I get them tomorrow to add 20MOA cant and resolve my "horrendous scope misalignment" and will test again.

 

[silentheart]

I have a Bushnell xtr gen 1. No problem at all. Just want to comment that Bushnell has money back warranty. Just call and send it back for repair. If there is still issue, claim for your $$$$ back and move on with other brand.

 

[huntsman22]

When did Bushnell start making the xtr's for Burris?

 

[silentheart]

When did Bushnell start making the xtr's for Burris?

Haha, my fault.

 

[fdkay]

Are you sure your scope isn't slipping in the rings?
It doesn't take much to shift your impact significantly when it is mounted on an inclined base.
I bought some of the Burris STEEL rings and my XTR II slipped several times (always torqued, sometimes even greater than recommended). I ended up putting tape on the inside of the rings and that seems to have fixed the issue.
inda pissed me off, as the rings were not cheap, I think it was a tolerance stacking issue.

 

[dntworry]

It is not impossible however highly unlikely. Got the Burris rings and still had the same issue. Called support again and after they assured me it was likely not the scope they are going to take it for inspection.