Night Vision Buyer Beware, Night Vison Inc. and USPS! ###UPDATE###

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The OP Signed for it and it was delivered as per USPS tracking

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We just got told this was going on and replied
Are you going to respond to anything relevant?

It was never in question that USPS claimed the package was delivered and signed for.. Per the OP, he claimed he was out of town when the package supposedly arrived, and furthermore he claimed that you 1. Shipped his order against his instructions. 2. Never notified the OP that his order was shipped, thereby making it impossible for him to watch out for his package. And 3. You did not insure his $1k plus package above the $50 default that USPS insures flat rate boxes.

How do you respond to these allegations because if you never notified him of his order shipping, then I'd say you are liable. Also, not insuring packages in the Night Vision game just seems really cheap. Especially when you use someone like the USPS who is notorious for losing packages.

It is worth noting that because of COVID, all major carriers are allowing their drivers to sign for packages themselves when signature is required in order to remain contactless. So it is not out of the realm of possibility that the driver signed for the package.
 
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Thanks for this thread. Found it a bit late, but not too late, was getting ready to drop some $$$. Guess where I’m not spending it, NV inc. Guess which course of action would have been cheaper.
Registered and insured priority would be the only way to ship USPS and I just had an optic take 32 days to get here that way. Never again.
 
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Thanks for this thread. Found it a bit late, but not too late, was getting ready to drop some $$$. Guess where I’m not spending it, NV inc. Guess which course of action would have been cheaper.
Registered and insured priority would be the only way to ship USPS and I just had an optic take 32 days to get here that way. Never again.
Agreed. Getting ready to buy some NODs. Was considering NVI, but think I'll look elsewhere now.
 
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For what its worth Glynn has always treated me right. I have gotten about 50k worth of NV from NV Inc with no issues. While I don't know both sides and don't care to get involved and typically don't respond to these. Just my .02. Alot of people bash others right away, and not just NVI, over stuff that they really have no clue about.

Please dont take this the wrong way, cause it still sucks what happened regardless. Ive been in that situation, as well as on the other side of it. Im not sure how this all went down, but if Op just asked to send his stuff back, maybe thats what he did, Did the OP ask for insurance? Or was that discussed?. Being it was not a build or parts from NVI, maybe it was just shipped back.

What sucks here ...is that USPS says and shows it was delivered and signed for ? Regardless of insurance, which i get would help cover the costs of the items, USPS says it was delivered. So did NVI mail the product and get it to the buyer according to the PO? Again not starting a fight... Sucks regardless for all parties.
 
For what its worth Glynn has always treated me right. I have gotten about 50k worth of NV from NV Inc with no issues. While I don't know both sides and don't care to get involved and typically don't respond to these. Just my .02. Alot of people bash others right away, and not just NVI, over stuff that they really have no clue about.

Please dont take this the wrong way, cause it still sucks what happened regardless. Ive been in that situation, as well as on the other side of it. Im not sure how this all went down, but if Op just asked to send his stuff back, maybe thats what he did, Did the OP ask for insurance? Or was that discussed?. Being it was not a build or parts from NVI, maybe it was just shipped back.

What sucks here ...is that USPS says and shows it was delivered and signed for ? Regardless of insurance, which i get would help cover the costs of the items, USPS says it was delivered. So did NVI mail the product and get it to the buyer according to the PO? Again not starting a fight... Sucks regardless for all parties.
Ah, I think it actually was parts from NVI. The ocular lens he bought from them and which were shipped separately and well in advance of the return of his parts.

$1,400 if I remember correctly and not putting insurance on this shipment is ludicrous, IMO.
 
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For what its worth Glynn has always treated me right. I have gotten about 50k worth of NV from NV Inc with no issues. While I don't know both sides and don't care to get involved and typically don't respond to these. Just my .02. Alot of people bash others right away, and not just NVI, over stuff that they really have no clue about.

Please dont take this the wrong way, cause it still sucks what happened regardless. Ive been in that situation, as well as on the other side of it. Im not sure how this all went down, but if Op just asked to send his stuff back, maybe thats what he did, Did the OP ask for insurance? Or was that discussed?. Being it was not a build or parts from NVI, maybe it was just shipped back.

What sucks here ...is that USPS says and shows it was delivered and signed for ? Regardless of insurance, which i get would help cover the costs of the items, USPS says it was delivered. So did NVI mail the product and get it to the buyer according to the PO? Again not starting a fight... Sucks regardless for all parties.
we all know how many scopes you ship.

do you send tracking when a package goes out?

do you insure all packages?

does the customer pay for said insurance when they check out as part of the single shipping cost? or is it an extra option given to customer?

I think those are the issues here. and maybe it's just a fluke. but all three things I asked didn't seem to happen
 
I ship product to my customers every day. Every package is insured by me and if there is a loss, I cover the customer and I file the claim.

I tell my customers to properly insure parts they send to me, because if it is lost before I receive it, it’s on them. On the way back it is on me.
 
Unrelated to this vendor or NODs: USPS tracking shows I’ve signed for stuff I’ve never signed for and stuffs gets “delivered” without actually being delivered semi-infrequently.

I insure my dinky $30 First Class packages, let alone multi thousand dollar optics shipments.
 
Hey brother sorry to hear this. I know your getting a Raptar?! Anyway, hmu brother you’re unlock is free, just pay insured shipping both ways. Unlike NVI, Elite Unlocked Aiming Solutions cares about customers/ friends and will strive to find whatever it is your heart desires (Nightvision/ thermal related ofcourse) and while I’m not big enough to offer warranties I can broker the right deals with people who will always take care of you, the end customer.

Thanks for sharing this story; I sourced the tubes for your build and I’m sorry to hear this happened to ya. Your not out $1400 though, I gotcha covered brother!
Regards
Felipe Bastos
Elite Unlocked Aiming Solutions
[email protected]

Love seeing a member take care of another.

I do business with reputable folks and have never had this issue. TNVC is good to go for sure.

Vic has basically done for me what Felipe is doing for the OP. He's another solid guy.

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The OP signed for and it was delivered as per USPS tracking

We have been in business since 1996 and incorporated since 2010 as Night Vision Inc. We treat customers with respect and strive for customer satisfaction. There is a lot more to this story, we are not going to get into a he said she said on a public forum. The OP sent some parts from various vendors into us, waffled back and forth, wanted to cancel build, then wanted build done, ended up his tubes were bad from another vendor and we sent tubes back. His Ethers got shipped to him prior to the housings and objectives, postal records show that they were signed for and delivered.

Thats about it.

Sincerely

Glynn Sziraki
Night Vision Inc

You sent $1400 worth of shit in a $50 insured box, didn't forward a tracking number, all during this COVID bullshit. Then hung him out to dry. And you're on the public forum now, how you handle it and how much it costs or how much it earns in future business is totally up to you. Guys spend a fortune on here and taking care of the customer, whether you think he's right or wrong, can go a long way.

Vic and Felipe earned their reputations on here as stand up guys that'll go that extra mile, even take a hit for the customer. And they've been on here forever helping people out too, not just selling shit.
 
what sort of shitbag business doesn't include insurance in their shipping costs?

shipping 101

how the fuck are you in business


naw, you stay in business by not buying overpriced insurance. Legally, the seller is 100% responsible for a package until it arrives at the destination. If the package gets lost before arriving at destination, the seller is 100% responsible, insurance or not. On the other hand, once the package is marked delivered, the seller is now 0% responsible legally. It would seem to me that the beef should be with the carrier who signed when no one was home.

back to the business side of things, If you are sending packages all the time, not getting insurance is the better business move, and will save you a lot of money and time in the long term. Insurance for anything should only be bought if the loss is financially catastrophic. There are better places to park money then insurance.

Now I agree tracking should have been sent, but not sure they should be liable due to tracking not being sent beforehand.
 
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naw, you stay in business by not buying overpriced insurance. Legally, the seller is 100% responsible for a package until it arrives at the destination. If the package gets lost before arriving at destination, the seller is 100% responsible, insurance or not. On the other hand, once the package is marked delivered, the seller is now 0% responsible legally. It would seem to me that the beef should be with the carrier who signed when no one was home.

back to the business side of things, If you are sending packages all the time, not getting insurance is the better business move, and will save you a lot of money and time in the long term. Insurance for anything should only be bought if the loss is financially catastrophic. There are better places to park money then insurance.

Now I agree tracking should have been sent, but not sure they should be liable due to tracking not being sent beforehand.
well if it had been insured he would have gotten a full check not 4%
 
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well if it had been insured he would have gotten a full check not 4%
Legally they were not liable, but there is a case that can be made that the carrier is liable. Once again, once the package is marked delivered the seller is not responsible at all.

Let’s say this same scenario happened on the px. Would you expect the seller to compensate you for something marked delivered?
I consider myself a good seller, but I would not pay for a most package marked delivered and typically carriers don’t cover that in insurance anyways. However, again in this case the carrier seems liable,so regardless of insurance they should pay. I am sure if you took the carrier to court you would most likely win.
 
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Legally they were not liable, but there is a case that can be made that the carrier is liable. Once again, once the package is marked delivered the seller is not responsible at all.
i'm not disagreeing on USPS being at fault. but there were several things that could have prevented it. mainly knowing the shipment was even coming, especially in covid

I just had a rifle delivered back to me by UPS. from a chick in a minivan who barely spoke english

the only reason i got it was because I knew it was coming and could GPS track. she was about to drop it (and sign herself) at a neighbor in my complex and i doubt i'd have ever seen it

they've done the same with ammo deliveries. even so much as delivering it to an ocean street and sea view drive versus ocean view drive. again. i tracked the package and went and got it
 
Legally they were not liable, but there is a case that can be made that the carrier is liable. Once again, once the package is marked delivered the seller is not responsible at all.

Let’s say this same scenario happened on the px. Would you expect the seller to compensate you for something marked delivered?
I consider myself a good seller, but I would not pay for a most package marked delivered and typically carriers don’t cover that in insurance anyways. However, again in this case the carrier seems liable,so regardless of insurance they should pay. I am sure if you took the carrier to court you would most likely win.

Anytime I’ve sold and shipped things on forums of that value, I always include shipping with insurance in the price unless the buyer explicitly asks me not to do so. If that had been done here, it would not have been an issue. You can argue who is liable all day long, but the facts is the buyer got hosed in a situation that the seller set up with no protection. Bad business practice regardless of the “cost” of insurance.
 
Anytime I’ve sold and shipped things on forums of that value, I always include shipping with insurance in the price unless the buyer explicitly asks me not to do so. If that had been done here, it would not have been an issue. You can argue who is liable all day long, but the facts is the buyer got hosed in a situation that the seller set up with no protection. Bad business practice regardless of the “cost” of insurance.

You’re missing the point, typically once a package is marked delivered you cannot make an insurance claim on it.

the carrier (usps) owes you that full amount not the $57. They threw you a bone, instead of the whole enchilada that they owe you.

Even if this was fully insured, that does not mean that USPS would have paid it. If i were the buyer, I would file a small claims court against usps.

Now with regards to the seller, yeah i agree they should have sent tracking, and they also missed an opportunity to make a raven fan, but it depends on how the conversation between went. If the buyer called the seller and started pointing fingers, then it wouldn't surprise me if the seller got defense, and wasn't in the mood for good will.
 
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i'm not disagreeing on USPS being at fault. but there were several things that could have prevented it. mainly knowing the shipment was even coming, especially in covid

I just had a rifle delivered back to me by UPS. from a chick in a minivan who barely spoke english

the only reason i got it was because I knew it was coming and could GPS track. she was about to drop it (and sign herself) at a neighbor in my complex and i doubt i'd have ever seen it

they've done the same with ammo deliveries. even so much as delivering it to an ocean street and sea view drive versus ocean view drive. again. i tracked the package and went and got it


We send two email notifications with every shipment. We are always getting emails from customers: “when will such and such ship?”, for something that has shipped days ago. Most times those notification emails are sitting in their spam/bulk/junk box. Sometimes they simply do not get through.

USPS customers can take it upon themselves to sign up for “Informed Delivery” . Though not perfect by a long shot, it will let you know of impeding deliveries via email daily. Similar services are available through UPS & Fed Ex.......
 
USPS customers can take it upon themselves to sign up for “Informed Delivery” . Though not perfect by a long shot, it will let you know of impeding deliveries via email daily. Similar services are available through UPS & Fed Ex.......

The USPS informed delivery service is really nice to have.
Well worth the like 10 minutes work to set it up.
 
If you care about something in a package, it shouldn't ever touch USPS. I do not understand why anyone sends anything of value by USPS. I've almost completely removed it from my business. I don't need parts sitting in a warehouse "lost" for 3 months.

I charge flat rate shipping for a lot of my products that are sub-$500 and don't insure over the normal UPS $100. If something is lost or damaged I take care of it. On my $2,000+ packages they get insured. There's a financial benefit to not insuring the cheaper items, with the caveat that I know if something ever happens that I'm just going to eat the cost of giving a new one to the customer.


P.S.: If you ever have something that you truly value to ship, the DE FACTO bare minimum option is UPS Blue (2-Day Air). That's it. There is no other. There is no FedEx, there is no USPS. It's UPS Blue or UPS Red Next Day Air. Behold the words "Critical Express."
 
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Well since NVI hasn't responded to the specific issues here, it stands to reason that they didn't insure it, and didn't send a tracking number. Why the hell ANYONE would ship ANYTHING with the USPS, I have no idea. That in itself is poor business. I have stopped doing business with a vendor who shipped with USPS, for that reason. I had a disaster of a shipment in similar circumstances but nowhere near the value of the items shipped here. I don't know why NVI didn't just say "hey, we are sorry this happened, how can we make this right" and move one. I ate $1,000.00 just this week. My company is due to money, and most certainly "legally" , but I said "we really should have handled this differently, and as such, we are going to eat this" . Why did I do that when I was legally entitled to the $1k???

Because it's not worth a bad name and MY COMPANY didn't do what they should have done.

That's all anyone is saying in this thread. Clearly NVI is legally off the hook, but they apparently didn't handle this well (3 different examples before this thread ever started). This was a bad decision by NVI, and it played out as such in real time ITT....
 
Let’s say this same scenario happened on the px. Would you expect the seller to compensate you for something marked delivered? I consider myself a good seller, but I would not pay for a most package marked delivered and typically carriers don’t cover that in insurance anyways. However, again in this case the carrier seems liable,so regardless of insurance they should pay. I am sure if you took the carrier to court you would most likely win.

The fact that USPS refunded him the $57.80 shows it was misdelivered, however If the package is not insured the carrier is not liable no matter how it happens, It's no different than the package getting lost whilst in transit. That's the crux of the matter.
 
What sucks here ...is that USPS says and shows it was delivered and signed for ? Regardless of insurance, which i get would help cover the costs of the items, USPS says it was delivered. So did NVI mail the product and get it to the buyer according to the PO? Again not starting a fight... Sucks regardless for all parties.

The other day I ordered $3000 in art and had it shipped overnight via USPS.

So, of course it didn’t actually arrive overnight... even though I paid for it to arrive overnight.

When I saw that it was out for delivery I made a point of watching for the package. This place is set up with like Fort Knox and there are cameras all over the place on the exterior of the building discreetly installed.

While I’m in the middle of working on a few things inside the house I get an alert that there’s motion on the front porch.

Keep in mind that this thing requires a signature and has been insured for the full value.

When I got to the door the dude was walking away… And he just left it on the front porch on top of the sopping wet entry mat without a care in the world.

And magically I had signed for it....
 
That sucks man, sadly this happens all the time, and I can name tons of businesses that ask for this problem by doing lots of the following:

1) not providing shipping options to the buyer. Even if you get an option of shipping company/level most won't give you the option to add insurance or a signature. Even those that do, won't always follow what you selected.
2) not insuring packages, I can't count the number of expensive packages I get that don't require a signature, have zero or only the included $50-$100 insurance on them. In fact it's extremely rare anything I order needs a signature, even more rare that it's insured for the full amount of the contents.
3) not sending shipping emails, or updating accounts with shipping info.

All that happens before the shipping company even gets a chance to screw something up. IMO many of these shipping problems would be fixed if companies insured the packages for their value, and required signatures. These days if you want/need you can release the signature requirement through shipping apps, but that's on the recipient then if something goes wrong. The funny part is, many businesses don't seem to understand that until that package is listed as delivered in the tracking the problem is between them and the shipping company. Most seem to think as soon as they "ship" it, their responsibility ends. Now if the business simply accepts the risk, figures replacing items lost is cheaper than buying insurance on everything they ship, that's fine. However, my experience is many companies are difficult to deal with if there's a shipping problem.

Here are great examples of this just over recent time, and I don't order that much stuff.
- Olight orders that still show pending shipment in my account from this black friday and last.....I got both orders quickly without issue.
- Well known custom knife maker sent an expensive knife, no signature, no insurance
- I had a set of Sig Kilo 3000's held at a local UPS store, signature required. They never had me sign, show ID, and they just let me walk out with the box, never even scanned it. I'm still getting emails from UPS saying I need to pickup my package or it will be returned to sender. I'm looking forward to see what happens next week when they try to find the package to return it to the sender. :unsure:
- I had a least two orders from well known companies here over black friday that I was never sent any notice of shipment, they just randomly showed up.

That said I only had one scare this year (aside lots of packages arriving late like everyone), B&T refurb bipods ordered at the black friday sale sent USPS priority, they went unscanned after their first departure in the USPS system for 3 weeks before they popped up again. Figured I'd be getting a crushed empty box, but amazingly everything was fine.
 
ToddM:

It’s funny that we all are starting to note that while people take our money and they “insure” our packages, they’re not actually insuring it for the full amount or value of a replacement.

I recently sent a shotgun to Briley manufacturing in Texas. For those who don’t know they make sub gauge tubes for shotguns, and they also do additional shotgun work for fitting barrels to actions and stuff like that.

When all the work was done I got a telephone call asking me how I wanted the shotgun shipped back to me.

I tell the lady that with the work she just did the original cost of the shotgun from coal gun in Naples Florida, and the custom stock that is on the shotgun, it’s worth about $20,000. (At least to attempt to replace it....)

It was literally the first time someone actually insured it, told me what it was gonna cost to insure and ship it, and then they wrapped every single component inside the hard case in heavy paper and then pack the hard case in a really nice box.

I’m not joking when I say I think this is the only time anybody took insuring a firearm, or firearms related stuff, properly.

And it’s a really valid point that the OP makes related to what will happen to you when someone fails to ensure your shipment properly...
 
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Awesome to see that Briley is still doing great work, I had them put choke tubes in my Perazzi MX 3 Special in the early 90's and it's still going strong. I do agree with high end shotguns it seems like owners and companies that work on them are pretty good about packaging, there's still an amount of "old world" service many of those companies know their customers expect. Not to mention a lot of those guys with $20+K shotguns probably either have or know an attorney. Meanwhile in the precision rifle world we're spray painting guns with krylon, grinding stocks out with dremels, and hitting scopes with hammers.

Unfortunately I think a lot of times, and I'm guilty of this as well, no one wants to pay a lot for shipping and companies have just started to default to the cheapest options.
 
A big part of the problem is "Customers" tend to be to a large extent cheapskates who are looking around for the lowest price.
Many folks with no direct idea of actual shipping costs have some stupid idea that shipping should be free or "why are you charging me so much for shipping, it's like $3 to put it in the mail".

Well you want your package going to your residence in the middle of some place far from the main delivery hubs, and you want it insured for the full value, and you want the driver to actually have to get an ID and signature directly.... Well that starts out costing about $20 more and for an expensive item might add $100 or more to the cost.

We have no way of knowing, but it would be interesting to see what the OP would have said if the company had said, you need to take your stuff back. Shipping is going to be $50, pay up and we'll send out the package, don't pay, we'll hold it till you are willing to pay for the shipping...

Somehow I have a feeling there would be a different thread here about some company holding the OP's precious stuff hostage till he pays some exorbitant shipping rate & the company should have to be out the shipping cost because I'm a "customer"...

If you think I'm kidding, go pick your carrier: Federal Express / UPS / USPS and see how much it's going to cost for a couple pound package to be delivered across the country to a residential address and you want $1500 or more insurance on it and you want an ID verified Adult Signature required for delivery.

Much like on the PX here, you see all these deals where buyers don't want to pay for insurance costs on shipping but think they should still be able to demand the seller take all the risk for free because they want to be cheapskates and then if the seller is stupid enough to ship it without full insurance and something goes wrong, the buyers are all enraged even if they agreed to not have any insurance.

That being said, actually getting paid by one of the carriers for an insurance claim is a long, tortuous and difficult process where you'll probably get rejected numerous times till you really get nasty about it. Sometimes even then, their answer is tough, don't like it, sue us, we've got more lawyers than you.
Most "Customers" have no idea how much loss/fraud/getting screwed by your customers/getting screwed by your suppliers/getting screwed by your shippers/getting screwed by your government/getting screwed by the banks/getting screwed by your payment processors has to get added into the price of products in order to stay in business, then they all whine about why are you making all this "markup"...
 
The other day I ordered $3000 in art and had it shipped overnight via USPS.

So, of course it didn’t actually arrive overnight... even though I paid for it to arrive overnight.

When I saw that it was out for delivery I made a point of watching for the package. This place is set up with like Fort Knox and there are cameras all over the place on the exterior of the building discreetly installed.

While I’m in the middle of working on a few things inside the house I get an alert that there’s motion on the front porch.

Keep in mind that this thing requires a signature and has been insured for the full value.

When I got to the door the dude was walking away… And he just left it on the front porch on top of the sopping wet entry mat without a care in the world.

And magically I had signed for it....
Happens ALL THE TIME! Why anyone would ever ship with USPS for anything remotely important, I do not know! They are horribly incompetent and it's expected that your package will arrive late, unannounced, if it arrives at all.
 
Happens ALL THE TIME! Why anyone would ever ship with USPS for anything remotely important, I do not know! They are horribly incompetent and it's expected that your package will arrive late, unannounced, if it arrives at all.

I remember that once I ordered two M1 Garand rifles from the CMP and the Postal Service just left them on my front porch and left. Heh
 
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Good delivery people seem hard to get. But, we once had a USPS rural route contract carrier named "Susie " that was the absolute best. When she announced her retirement, we all complained so loudly that she agreed to stay on a couple of more years. I bought her gift cards for her birthdays and holidays that I don't even get for my extended family. The only time she told me that she "hated" me was when she had to carry AR500 full size IPSC plates to my door. :oops: Unfortunately, she eventually retired. My current guy kinda sucks.
My current UPS driver is great also. I buy him gift cards for the holidays. Before the current madness, he was always delivering ammo. He told me that when the zombies come, he was headed to my house. He knew the drill.
Good ones are worth their weight in gold - bad ones..............not so much.
 
Turns out that my mother-in-law is actually quite a decent painter and she had created a painting for the family for Christmas.

For some reason she decided not to ensure the living crap out of it, and guess what happened...

It’s been missing for 30 days… And it status indicates it’s still enroute
 
Turns out that my mother-in-law is actually quite a decent painter and she had created a painting for the family for Christmas.

For some reason she decided not to ensure the living crap out of it, and guess what happened...

It’s been missing for 30 days… And it status indicates it’s still enroute

Yeah it happens. Your mail starts to get routed to like 5-10 different cities. However, It usually finds it way to its destination.
I’ve sent and received probably a thousand packages and I have yet to have one lost. Typically, if a package is lost by a carrier it’s because the label fell off, so I am very careful to tape the label well and if it’s an expensive item I will make an additional label inside.
 
NVI has a contact page, send them a note you will not be doing business with them because of this. Make them understand what they are missing out on for $1400 miserable dollars. I just sent them a note. Too many dickheads in this industry, easy to rid the business of them sorts - dont buy shit from em and let them know why.