Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

So, on to the Update:

-I finally got a call back from Brad tonight. He said he found the rifle in his files. Here’s his story:

-He bought this gun from a local "high-power shooter" and "competition guy" who was "diagnosed with skin cancer, and then died 6 months after his diagnosis." He said he "bought the rifle from him and his wife, on their word, without inspecting it." He said "he didn't build the rifle, but that it was probably someone named Speedy Gonzalez or something... or maybe it was this other guy in Kentucky... or maybe it was Texas... anyways, it was somebody that this guy used to have build his rifles." Hmmm. That's quite a story!

-After a bit more talking he agreed that "we'd make this right." YAY! That was nice to hear! I finally got a commitment from him to fix this - that sure was a positive. His first suggestion was that I should send the rifle back - with the brake - and he'd re-thread it for me and then install the brake. I explained to him that while I appreciate the offer, that I was quite happy with Jered doing the work, and what I really needed was a NEW BARREL! Because (as mentioned numerous times above) there are MANY issues with the barrel besides "my muzzle brake won't fit."

I think it was finally settling in, what he had actually done. After looking the gun up in his files, he confessed he made a BIG booboo!

-So, he said he'd take a look in his shop tomorrow to look for something that was 22-26", 1:11 twist, and M40 taper. He then informed me that he had some varmint barrels, some lighter contour barrels, some 30+ inch barrels, and some 1:12 & 1:13 twist barrels (which he recommended I use when I told him I mostly shoot 168gr), and asked if I would be interested in any of those? I politely declined and reminded him that we had made a contract together.

I stayed firm and explained that at this point we have 3 options:
1.) he can reimburse me for the cost of the barrel.
2.) He can order a new barrel and have it shipped to Jered.
Or 3.) He can find the SAME barrel in his shop (albeit possibly longer than 22") and send that to Jered.
I gently reminded him, however, that if he chose to send a barrel he had "lying around," that he better check it inside and out before he ships it!

He agreed to those conditions and once again said he would "make this right." He said he would call me Wednesday after he checked his shop. So there you have it! Things aren't in the clear yet, but it's nice to actually get a return phone call! haha! It's also nice to hear he's agreed to fix his mistake. Now, what happens over the rest of this week will be the real determining factor as to whether balance is restored to the force...
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Yes BeBop- that wasn't the only time I busted that icehole and his 'work.' I had to point out all of the fatal flaws in a stock he 'made' for a rifle that was sitting on the shelf of another dealer in a neighboring county. That poor guy truly had no clue what he was looking at, he was just a good ole' boy that traded for a rifle with 'purty wood.'
If this guy has an 07 manufacturing license and is listed as he is, he STILL should have known what he was looking at, and I'd bet dollars to donuts he did the work. Regardless, you got him on the phone, he allegedly is per his word in the process of 'making t right' so we shall see.
Best of luck regardless
smile.gif
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

A few of the benchrest guys I work with shoot Speedy's rifles. He is a VERY well respected smith and produces top-notch work, so I would probably cross that off the list.

Glad you are at least pointed in the direction of getting some help from the guy! Hope he makes things right for you.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Thanks for the heads-up on Speedy you guys. That all verifies the info I found on Speedy when I Google'd his name - that he was a very capable Smith who definitely wouldn't do this... so it must have been the "some other guy." : )

Still no call back from Brad. I've called him a bunch of times and keep getting the old "This mailbox is full" message. Hoping he calls me back this week.

J.S.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Finally got a hold of Brad. He's been at SHOT Show. Said he found a Barrel back in his shop before SHOT, but didn't have time to ship it out before he left. Said he'll be back @ his shop Monday, and then ship it out to Jered the beginning of next week. YAY!
Also, he told me he ordered some new barrels from Rock Creek while at SHOT, so I'll have some backups to choose from in case this one doesn't work out... But according to Brad, we should be GTG. He said the one he has is 26" long, .910 or .920 at the business end, and 1.2xx on the other... : )
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

When Brad got back from SHOT we connected over the phone. He told me he met with Mike Rock while he was there, and put in a new order with him. He said one of the barrels on the order was an M40, and so that's what we decided he would have shipped to Jered @ APA. Brad said Mike's turnaround is usually 2-3 weeks, so as things stand right now, I'm just waiting for the barrel to show up at APA.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Well, it's almost May, and still no barrel.

I've tried calling Brad about 10 times over the last 2 weeks, and still no answer. I keep getting the same, "Sorry. The mailbox you've tried to reach is full" message.

Anybody seen/heard from Brad lately?

Brad told me (back when we talked in February) that Rock Creek gave him an estimate of 4-6 weeks when he ordered it at SHOT Show. Does that sound typical? It's a standard M40 barrel in .308, so it seems like Rock Creek would have something like that "laying around." Well... at least it doesn't seem like it should take 3 months to get.

Really hoping I can get my stick up and running soon, since it's almost May and I bought it in October!

-Bebop
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Bummer story. Last I checked on a Rock barrel the lead time was 10 months or something. You'd have been better off with a full refund and starting over from scratch.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

My last two barrels from Rock Creek took 3-4 months. My thrid (ordered almost a month ago) is in the works, didn't ask what the lead time was though...
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Thanks for the info on Rock Barrels guys. I Guess I'll just give it another month or two then :-/

RobG, I completely agree with your thinking. The problem has been/is, that Brad is so hard to get a hold of, that I think the probability of getting my money back is a lot smaller than the probability of getting a new Barrel out of him. If I can ever get Brad on the phone again though, at this point, I'd prefer to just mail him back this messed up rifle, and start over! However, I don't really trust him enough to mail the rifle back first, and then wait for a Money Order... and I highly doubt he's gonna mail me a MO without the rifle.

Well, I'm gonna keep trying to call. Maybe the heavens will part and I'll finally get a hold of him this week?

-Bebop
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

I'm gonna go against the flow on this one.

You completely jumped the gun with this thread, calling him out and calling him a disgrace before he even had a chance to resolve it.

Calling someone's business practice a disgrace is pretty strong words and should be a last resort. You hardly exhausted all efforts before going down this route.

You've left him little reason to resolve the issue. You've bashed his credibility and called him a disgrace. I'm not sure if I was him if I wouldn't tell you to go pound sand now. The firearms community is relatively small and if by chance he had made a mistake and was willing to fix it, you've trashed the guy and given him no room to maneuver out of it......either way you've painted him a scumbag.

In my opinion you did it out of order.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Bebop - 6 months of being jerked around is ridiculous.

He would have vindicated himself by resolving this in a timely fashion.

Tell him to order you an M24 barrel from bugholes.com & have it shipped to you or Jered ASAP.

Bugholes.com (a 'Hide vendor) shows three M24 contour Rock Creek barrels in stock right now.

Put an end to this drawn out misery, get it over & done with.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bebop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the info on Rock Barrels guys. I Guess I'll just give it another month or two then :-/
-Bebop </div></div>

No, in another month or two, we'll still be tuned in to this soap opera and you'll still be twisting along. If the seller had any intention of making it right, he would have whipped out his checkbook a long time ago, not offered up more bs excuses. I particularly like the one about him looking around the shop for another barrel that doesn't exist.

Reminds me of the time I paid a contractor, who had done several major jobs for me in preceding months, a substantial down payment to cover "materials". I never saw him or any materials again. I sued him, for all good that did, only got back a fraction of what he owes me, but I think that's about your last option. Or just take your loss and get on down the road and call it a learning experience.

But like Lofty said, if someone had called me out in an internet forum without even bothering to make a phone call to see if it was an honest mistake that could be resolved like gentlemen, I'd be pissed and less likely to work to a mutual resolution. As a business man and professional gunsmith, I think you both have behaved poorly.

 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

WadeP, Lofty this is a quote from the first post:

"So, I've emailed Brad many, many times with no response."

what part of many emails constitutes "not giving him a chance to respond"
did you look at the timeline? this is not something that has occurred over a few days with no chance to respond

are you calling the OP a liar? or does your reading comprehension just suck?
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

No, my reading comprehension does not suck, does your life experience suck?

It certainly must if you think email is an effective form of communication when the first email was never replied to.

It could simply be that the OP had the wrong email, his mail was sent to a spam folder....maybe the guy just isnt good at checking his emails. That might make him a shitty business person but it certainly doesnt pigeon hole someone into being a fucking crook.

I was just recently dealing with one of the most respected rifle builders and gunsmiths on this site and I couldnt get the guy to answer my emails for shit. Finally when I called him he explained he just hasnt had time to even check his emails.......no big deal, problem resolved.

There is nothing in the OP's post that showed me he exhausted every effort before trashing the guy on here and potentially doing more damage to the guys reputation than he should have.


Lastly......I dont know if the OP is a liar or not......he's a one post wonder that has no interaction with this site other than to use it as a bill board to air his gripes and dirty laundry. For all we know the incident never happened the way he said and as far as Im concerned the OP has no credibility because it hasnt been earned.

Do you just believe everything you read?


Ive been on this site for years, Ive traded, bought and sold 10's of thousands of dollars of equipment with this sites members, I contribute to this site and pay for the online training.

Even then I wouldnt jump the gun like this and expect people just to "take my word for it"....I would have exhausted all efforts and if I felt the final need to air my laundry, Id back it up with facts.


Thats just me though.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Also, unless your reading comprehension sucks, you'd have noticed that the OP stated the seller had a 200+ positive seller rating on gunbroker.

You dont get there by routinely fucking people over. I'd have given the guy the benefit of the doubt and found a way to resolve it.

Now, by trashing the guy, he has effectively given the guy no reason whatsoever to resolve the issue.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WadeP, Lofty this is a quote from the first post:

"So, I've emailed Brad many, many times with no response."

what part of many emails constitutes "not giving him a chance to respond"
did you look at the timeline? this is not something that has occurred over a few days with no chance to respond

are you calling the OP a liar? or does your reading comprehension just suck?</div></div>

Maybe my reading comprehension does suck but I understood the following timeline. Tell me where I got off-track...

1. OP sent emails that were not responded to. Big deal. Pick up the phone or write an actual letter if you want results.
2. OP aired his complaint on this forum and stated "I'm going to start calling him". I took that to mean that he hadn't picked up a phone yet.
3. Later the same day, the OP reports that he talked to the seller on the phone.

Now, the seller isn't making good on his promises but IMO, the OP jumped the gun before exhausting all reasonable attempts at contacting the seller prior to posting. That's not good form, either.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

That's an astonishingly stupid conclusion.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, by trashing the guy, he has effectively given the guy no reason whatsoever to resolve the issue. </div></div>
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's a stupid conclusion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, by trashing the guy, he has effectively given the guy no reason whatsoever to resolve the issue. </div></div> </div></div>

Really?

How so? Rather than just calling my conclusion stupid....please enlighten me.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Decay of his business reputation?

Decay implies moving from bad to worse. Being called a disgrace doesn't really allow for anything worse. Lets assume he tells the OP to get bent.

Whats the OP gonna call him then....an asshole?

When I was a cop, you didnt barge into a house on a disturbance call and shout "What the fuck is wrong with you assholes!!??" It leaves you no where to go because ratcheting the tone down after that is almost impossible.

Lets assume this guy gave the OP a 100% refund and even let him keep the gun. How does the OP repair the guys damaged rep.....issue a retraction?

So anyone that reads this thread has to filter through all this shit just to find out he made good on things? What about the damage to his business he has already possibly incurred?


We dont even know if the OP is telling the truth....who the fuck is he? Do you know him....does anyone here know anything about him?


Why are you so quick to believe his side of the story when the gun store owner hasnt even had the chance to defend himself?

Dude.



 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Do a search for Long Range Precision Andersonville Tennessee on google.

This thread is on the front page.

How much more is the OP going to decay this guys reputation?
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

There are more and more scams now. I have heard of a couple of guys getting scammed on firearms (not receiving what was advertised) I was scammed buying two each Leupold scopes.
Beware of ads for Leupold & Nightforce w/Texas address.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bebop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He said "he didn't build the rifle,
</div></div>

This is where it gets tricky, Brad says he didn't build the rifle. The ad that was linked says the rifle was smithed by Brad.

Hmmm, paging Dr. Watson...
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WadeP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WadeP, Lofty this is a quote from the first post:

"So, I've emailed Brad many, many times with no response."

what part of many emails constitutes "not giving him a chance to respond"
did you look at the timeline? this is not something that has occurred over a few days with no chance to respond

are you calling the OP a liar? or does your reading comprehension just suck?</div></div>

Maybe my reading comprehension does suck but I understood the following timeline. Tell me where I got off-track...

1. OP sent emails that were not responded to. Big deal. Pick up the phone or write an actual letter if you want results.
2. OP aired his complaint on this forum and stated "I'm going to start calling him". I took that to mean that he hadn't picked up a phone yet.
3. Later the same day, the OP reports that he talked to the seller on the phone.

Now, the seller isn't making good on his promises but IMO, the OP jumped the gun before exhausting all reasonable attempts at contacting the seller prior to posting. That's not good form, either. </div></div>

The one part that seems to be missed here is that the seller DID respond to emails from the buyer before money changed hands: "I emailed him about 10 times: asking about the life of the rifling, whether a thread protector was included, what taper was the barrel, what sling studs were in the stock, how many rounds has it seen, is it more accurate than a stock remy, etc etc. He answered all my questions..." (by the way, it certainly appears that even at this point, the seller was being dishonest, if you read the rest of the OPs original post).

Then, only when the buyer got the rifle and realized it was not at all what was advertised, did the seller stop responding to emails.

Sure, the buyer probably should have picked up the phone. But, given the seller's responsiveness before that point, it sure appears to be a strong indicator. Indeed the buyer DID reach the seller by phone and has basically gotten the runaround ever since. How is the buyer in the wrong here?
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

He's got the run around since he came on here trashing the guy.

Remember, he posted this before actually speaking to him in person.

The guy probably found this thread after speaking with him initially and said "fuck that guy".
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's got the run around since he came on here trashing the guy.

Remember, he posted this before actually speaking to him in person.</div></div>

Yes, as I agreed with you in my post. But he tried reaching him through the same means he had used before without luck, THEN posted here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy probably found this thread after speaking with him initially and said "fuck that guy".</div></div>

That's total speculation on your part.

So, you don't think the seller would have wanted to fix things right away? A quick pop into the thread to clear everything up, then take care of the customer, then, in a sense, make the buyer look bad? No, he didn't do any of those things. What he did is prove the OP's original post correct.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Like you said, I'm speculating......I have no idea what the guy knows or doesn't know. I also have no idea if the OP is full of crap.

What I do know is that based on the OPs own words, he jumped the gun.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's got the run around since he came on here trashing the guy.

Remember, he posted this before actually speaking to him in person.

The guy probably found this thread after speaking with him initially and said "fuck that guy".
</div></div>

So what? Since when does someone get to sell someone something under what would appear false pretenses then turn around and be like "Fuck that guy because he didn't come talk to me first to make something right that should have been right to begin with."? You're making a lot of excuses for the seller who did NOT deliver the product as advertised and far from it at that. This guy operates a business as you pointed out in a small community, so he should expect some deserved blowback when he sends a crap product. And you can drop the BS about the phone call. The guy had ZERO issues responding to emails before and continues to sell products with emails as one of his main point of contact, so it's irrelevant whether the OP called him or emailed him. Anyone who runs a business selling anything and doesn't check their email accept every couple of weeks is an idiot...
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

I think the most important thing that a lot of you are overlooking is the lack of a thorough inspection by the seller upon receiving it. If he's a smith, he knows his way around a bolt gun and these seem like issues that would jump off the weapon and smack him in the face. Jared said the weapon isn't even safe to fire so how many other ticking time bombs has this guy put in the hands of people like us? That concerns me more than anything.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Looks like the seller maybe caught in a bold face lie.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bebop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, on to the Update:

-I finally got a call back from Brad tonight. He said he found the rifle in his files. Here’s his story:

-He bought this gun from a local "high-power shooter" and "competition guy" who was "diagnosed with skin cancer, and then died 6 months after his diagnosis." He said he "bought the rifle from him and his wife, on their word, without inspecting it." He said "he didn't build the rifle, but that it was probably someone named Speedy Gonzalez or something... or maybe it was this other guy in Kentucky... or maybe it was Texas... anyways, it was somebody that this guy used to have build his rifles." Hmmm. That's quite a story!

</div></div>

Below is from the add here on SH.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssfeu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brad at Long Range Precision in Andersonville, TN did the smithing on the rifle. </div></div>

Stating that we don't know if the OP is making this up, or exaggerating, or just straight out lieing - This has already been addressed by an indipendent 3rd party expert on page one of this thread.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJoplin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm. I thought I might have been drug into this publicly. Some of the verbage may have been expressed in a slightly different manner but these facts remain:

The action hasn't been trued as advertised

The stock hasnt been bedded as advertised

The trigger I can't remember so no comment. I'm on the road currently.

The threads are a fair amount out of spec. Don't know if they are straight or not.

The crown is shot. The live center rolled a really ugly burr on top of every land.

The breach threads are REALLY loose. My comment was pretty doesn't shoot but thIs is pretty bad.

I didn't check the headspace because at that point I didn't see the need.

The main point was that he didn't get what he paid for and he should. Contact the seller. I just couldn't do the work requested in good faith. I had to let him know what he had before we put more money into it. As bad as I hate to let these words come out of my mouth it needs to be said. Whomever put this barrel on needs to take a step back from the lathe. I don't know who did it so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone intentionally. Just stating that we all gotta start somewhere and this needs to be refined before it can be sold publicly.

Not a single one of us walk on water. We have to learn and improve as we go but this is also the only single act where you hold a controlled explosion 6"s from your head and expect things to be ok. That being said know and trust your gun plumber or go find one that you do. </div></div>

The Seller is responsible for the placing a factual add. The seller is also responsible for sending out a quality product which would match up to the advertised specifications of the add. Not checking the product prior to sending it out really gets me. Is the seller a one man show, is there anyone else helping out with the QC of weapons before sending them out?

The seller could have nipped this in the butt right of by continuing service after the sale, instead he figures he has this guys money, he'll just move on to the next guy. Now the seller has to deal with a really bad reputation which it sounds like he deserves.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Hood on, we don't know if that's the same gun. I found that thread and posted the pic ASKING if it's the same gun, no one has confirmed it yet.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Being a cop is a ridiculous analogy. Perhaps the only one you have?

The more broadly the news spreads of this guys business practices the more likely his wallet is affected.

Real-for profit world (no police/governemnt work) is what tells us the story here.
Absolutely no shooting experience is needed to understand this.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Decay of his business reputation?

Decay implies moving from bad to worse. Being called a disgrace doesn't really allow for anything worse. Lets assume he tells the OP to get bent.

Whats the OP gonna call him then....an asshole?

When I was a cop, you didnt barge into a house on a disturbance call and shout "What the fuck is wrong with you assholes!!??" It leaves you no where to go because ratcheting the tone down after that is almost impossible.

Lets assume this guy gave the OP a 100% refund and even let him keep the gun. How does the OP repair the guys damaged rep.....issue a retraction?

So anyone that reads this thread has to filter through all this shit just to find out he made good on things? What about the damage to his business he has already possibly incurred?


We dont even know if the OP is telling the truth....who the fuck is he? Do you know him....does anyone here know anything about him?


Why are you so quick to believe his side of the story when the gun store owner hasnt even had the chance to defend himself?

Dude.



</div></div>
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

Dude, please dont lecture me on real-for profit world stuff.

First of all its not a ridiculous analogy.....Im making the point that the principles of dealing with people, negotiation, conflict resolution and gift of gab are the same across the board.......people dont stop being people just because someones a cop.

Notice I said I USED to be a cop, I got tired of the government glass ceiling and left for greener pastures and I have been self employed since. My first business I purchased after police work I increased its gross income over 48% and profits over 62% in my first year. I grossed over 1.97 million in my first year.

I know how to run a business.


Apparently this guy does too considering his feedback on gunbroker according to the OP. I did a google search of his business and I cant find any other negative comments of him or his business online.


So some no name guy with two posts under his belt comes on here and starts trashing a guys business, that by all accounts is run without any previous problems, and you just want to jump in and convict the guy?

Or at best you expect him to bend over and take the shaft just because the OP says this or that happened with no proof?

Damage control and reputation management also doesnt mean youre held hostage by anyone and everyone with access to a computer.

 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

If I could interject between chest thumping...

IMHO your argument for defending this company's reputation is the same argument why you shouldn't have to.

Anyone with a clue can see weigh the facts, see what's going on and figure it out for themselves. I don't see any reason to put yourself in a position as a knight of right to ensure people take a step back and think logically.

If they can't...well, that's just how people are. You aren't gonna change that.

I definitely would not say the guy is "taking the shaft" because of this one complaint.

On the other hand, if the allegations were true, I would want to be informed. This alleged screw up could have been life threatening.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rubicon-unlmtd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think an apology from you is necessary! This guy sold you a rifle that was unsafe and not as described. Even if he does make it right you dont owe him shit!</div></div>

TUFF CROWD...........
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude, please dont lecture me on real-for profit world stuff.

First of all its not a ridiculous analogy.....Im making the point that the principles of dealing with people, negotiation, conflict resolution and gift of gab are the same across the board.......people dont stop being people just because someones a cop.

Notice I said I USED to be a cop, I got tired of the government glass ceiling and left for greener pastures and I have been self employed since. My first business I purchased after police work I increased its gross income over 48% and profits over 62% in my first year. I grossed over 1.97 million in my first year.

I know how to run a business.


Apparently this guy does too considering his feedback on gunbroker according to the OP. I did a google search of his business and I cant find any other negative comments of him or his business online.


So some no name guy with two posts under his belt comes on here and starts trashing a guys business, that by all accounts is run without any previous problems, and you just want to jump in and convict the guy?

Or at best you expect him to bend over and take the shaft just because the OP says this or that happened with no proof?

Damage control and reputation management also doesnt mean youre held hostage by anyone and everyone with access to a computer.
Could`nt agree more.....
I have expierienced/witnessed the same wrath.....the internets a wonderful tool.... you can say anything you want..about anything/anybody.... but that don`t make it true....
bill larson
</div></div>
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

In fact I'd go a step further.....the vast majority of crap you read online is just that, crap.

Especially when there is absolutely no proof and the allegation was made by someone with no credibility or reputation of their own.

I can only hope some of the people on here that are so quick to convict this guy end up one day feeling what its like to have their name, their business and their ethics trashed on some online forum with absolutely no credibility or proof to back the allegations up.
 
Re: Buyers Beware!! Total Disgrace to our Passion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 223hpbt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agree with Daybreak.</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact I'd go a step further.....the vast majority of crap you read online is just that, crap.

Especially when there is absolutely no proof and the allegation was made by someone with no credibility or reputation of their own.

I can only hope some of the people on here that are so quick to convict this guy end up one day feeling what its like to have their name, their business and their ethics trashed on some online forum with absolutely no credibility or proof to back the allegations up.</div></div>

AMEN............