Buying Items off Sniper's Hide

[bergman0311]

I understand that buying off this website involves a lot of trust but how can you be sure that you aren't scammed?

I am looking to buy a spotting scope off a guy and he only has a hand full of posts. What happens if I send him the money and never get anything in return or he sends me the item in not the condition described.

I'm new to this forum so if I'm being overly concerned feel free to enlighten me.

Semper Fi
Matt

 

[BoilerUP]

I understand that buying off this website involves a lot of trust but how can you be sure that you aren't scammed?

You can't.

 

[Punisher29073]

When your stuff gets to you.

It takes a leap of faith. I haven't been burned yet but if you get a bad feeling, trust it.

Ryan

 

[Fly_True]

I haven't followed upon this yet but I thought I received some sort of new blerb from paypal this past week about an option that releases funds once the product arrives... Might be worth digging into.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/general/PADLaunch-outside



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[coldboremiracle]

Check into the good guy list, also, lots of guys have friends here now, and you can check in with their friends if you are really concerned.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

myself and a few others got burned by a guy here a few months ago.

i should have taken the time to think about, and do research before hand, though with only a few minutes before having to leave for work, i didn't do my homework first. was in a rush to "lock in" a good deal.

thread: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/new-member-sale-section/240037-ar500-steel-target-lot.html

from that, an excerpt:

lessons learned:

1) avoid n2sndndld and the name Danny Wieser.

2) when dealing with anyone, no more discreet payments through paypal - i'll spring for the couple of extra bucks to CYA just in case.

3) confirm identity through either personal email, cellphone, etc. BEFORE any funds are sent

4) get REAL tracking numbers

5) use credit card and not bank checking account for transactions (even through paypal), there's added protection there.

6) amazed at the amount of free personal information on the internet one can use to track folks down, especially when you connect the dots and unless you are living under a rock, there's hardly a place to hide. use this to your advantage.

also to add again i hold no ill toward the SH forum, it was my stupidity not to do the above in this instance because i was in a rush.

and thanks to all the behind the scenes stuff ugotbit, doc68, geevee35, mrspradlin did, i hope you got your stuff and / or refunds with your situations, which also goes to show 1 bad apple doesn't ruin the whole bunch.


so if ever doing business with a newbie, or even a seasoned poster:

1) no discreet payments through paypal - i'll spring for the couple of extra bucks to cover my ass just in case to cover the "payment sent for goods or services" in paypal. transactions can be refuted this way, and paypal can either reimburse you and go after the seller, or ruin his paypal rating so no one else will want to deal with him with anything.

2) confirm identity through either personal email, cellphone, etc. BEFORE any funds are sent

3) use credit card and not bank checking account for transactions through paypal, there's added protection there to protect against scams.

4) check the feedback score in the poster's profile, there may be some comments there that may lead you to believe they are not trustworthy.

5) do not use western union - i've found that using that media is like giving your purse away to a thug. Once the money is sent wired through WU, kiss it goodbye.

6) get a real name, phone #, or address - either physical address or email - amazing how much personal info is out there that you can basically do your own check on the seller's whereabouts for free. If someone who claims to be "So & So" in real life, and claims to live on "123 American Way Drive" an easy googlefu search can usually confirm that, along with the stuff people post on facebook.

 

[ShtrRdy]

There is definitely an exposure, but as TOP PREDATOR pointed out there are some things you can do to reduce the risk.

Most transactions go smoothly. But once in a while there's a problem.

 

[Guest]

3) confirm identity through either personal email, cellphone, etc. BEFORE any funds are sent

This is my go to tactic when dealing with someone who has little to no history or feedback.
They need to send me a scan or photo of a pitcure ID that has their face, their name, and the address to which I'm sending the funds.

I also like to cross-reference that with as much other information I can gather, like researching their username and real name to see if any red flags get raised from activities on other sites.

 

[Jrb572]

Not saying I will never get burnt. But so far I've had great success with everyone here. My only real problem is people who have said I will take it. Only to never receive payment. A simple I'm sorry I can not afford it I should not have said I will take it would be nice. Just so I can list it again.

 

[KillShot]

@bergman0311, I had the same apprehension when I bought my first NightForce on here and when I paid $2600+ for my POF on gunbroker. Since buying my first NXS on here, I've made several high dollar transactions with the latest being in excess of $4K.

The best way to determine if a seller is safe to deal with is by taking a look at his forum activity. If the seller/buyer is rarely active then you'd be smart to err on the side of caution.

 

[TXARGUY]

I'm new to SH also but not new at all to forums. In my short time here I have purchased two items from other members. I always read the seller's feedback. I also read a few of their recent posts to see if they are posting to participate or if they're just posting junk to get their post count up. Then, I Google their username and see what they've been doing and what their reputation is elsewhere.

Once I've checked them out I will establish contact and begin to work a deal. I am very attentive when corresponding with the seller, watching for clues, odd language, aloofness, unwarranted defensiveness, insistence on a single form of payment (usually Paypal), refusal to provide photos of the actual item being sold as opposed to a stock pic grabbed from a manufacturer's website and anything else that may set off my finely tuned BS meter.

If my BS meter gets tripped I walk away. With all of the things for sale out there I have no problem passing on one if it doesn't feel right.

NOTE: For added insurance use USPS money orders as payment made out to the seller, with seller's address and reference to item purchased. Hold on to the money order receipt and any correspondence with the seller until the transaction is complete and you are both satisfied. If scammed contact your Postmaster immediately and let them handle the investigation. USPS money orders are considered one of the safest forms of payment because the Postal Service's Fraud Protection agency has zero tolerance for, and rigorously investigates and prosecutes scammers.

NOTE 2: Pay attention to what others are saying. A lot of times when someone is scammed they tend to tell anyone who will listen. If you spot a scam or a scammer notify the mods. Keep in mind that not everything that looks like a scam is a scam so avoid outing a seller as a scammer until you have proof of deception. Then alert everyone from the rooftops.

I have bought and sold hundreds of items from members of several forums over the years and have yet to be scammed a single time. The two guys I've bought from so far here in SH were both great guys. Excellent communication and their items arrived in exactly the condition they were described.

There are definitely scammers out there but if your careful you can avoid falling victim to them.

 

[bergman0311]

I haven't followed upon this yet but I thought I received some sort of new blerb from paypal this past week about an option that releases funds once the product arrives... Might be worth digging into.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/general/PADLaunch-outside



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just got off the phone with paypal and the feature is automatic, you have 72 hours after the item has been delivered to call them and file a dispute about the item received. Thank you for the information and I hope that I in turn helped you too.

Semper Fi

 

[bergman0311]

Check into the good guy list, also, lots of guys have friends here now, and you can check in with their friends if you are really concerned.

The guy just joined and has only has 8 posts which is why i'm nervous. He has no friends and zero feedback BUT.... I'm the same way and I would hope someone would give me a chance since I'm a boot to this site.

Semper Fi

 

[bergman0311]

myself and a few others got burned by a guy here a few months ago.

i should have taken the time to think about, and do research before hand, though with only a few minutes before having to leave for work, i didn't do my homework first. was in a rush to "lock in" a good deal.

thread: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/new-member-sale-section/240037-ar500-steel-target-lot.html

from that, an excerpt:

lessons learned:

1) avoid n2sndndld and the name Danny Wieser.

2) when dealing with anyone, no more discreet payments through paypal - i'll spring for the couple of extra bucks to CYA just in case.

3) confirm identity through either personal email, cellphone, etc. BEFORE any funds are sent

4) get REAL tracking numbers

5) use credit card and not bank checking account for transactions (even through paypal), there's added protection there.

6) amazed at the amount of free personal information on the internet one can use to track folks down, especially when you connect the dots and unless you are living under a rock, there's hardly a place to hide. use this to your advantage.

also to add again i hold no ill toward the SH forum, it was my stupidity not to do the above in this instance because i was in a rush.

and thanks to all the behind the scenes stuff ugotbit, doc68, geevee35, mrspradlin did, i hope you got your stuff and / or refunds with your situations, which also goes to show 1 bad apple doesn't ruin the whole bunch.


so if ever doing business with a newbie, or even a seasoned poster:

1) no discreet payments through paypal - i'll spring for the couple of extra bucks to cover my ass just in case to cover the "payment sent for goods or services" in paypal. transactions can be refuted this way, and paypal can either reimburse you and go after the seller, or ruin his paypal rating so no one else will want to deal with him with anything.

2) confirm identity through either personal email, cellphone, etc. BEFORE any funds are sent

3) use credit card and not bank checking account for transactions through paypal, there's added protection there to protect against scams.

4) check the feedback score in the poster's profile, there may be some comments there that may lead you to believe they are not trustworthy.

5) do not use western union - i've found that using that media is like giving your purse away to a thug. Once the money is sent wired through WU, kiss it goodbye.

6) get a real name, phone #, or address - either physical address or email - amazing how much personal info is out there that you can basically do your own check on the seller's whereabouts for free. If someone who claims to be "So & So" in real life, and claims to live on "123 American Way Drive" an easy googlefu search can usually confirm that, along with the stuff people post on facebook.

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions, seriously though I really appreciate it. I will do the all of the above to ensure that I don't make the same mistake as you. Semper Fi!!

 

[coach4christ]

I understand your concern. I personally talk to the people that I buy/sell to, not only for my benefit, but for theirs as well. If something feels fishy when we talk, it's a no deal. Also, as mentioned above, tracking numbers are your friend.

 

[bogeybrown]

As [MENTION=44986]coach4christ[/MENTION] said, I typically have some PM exchange prior to committing to a sale to gauge the user if it's someone I don't "know" from previous forum discussions. All the CYA advice is solid on how to conduct the actual transaction.

In 2013 alone I spent well over $20K (conservatively) dealing with Hide members. All of my dealings have been fantastic on this site. In fact, I'm currently dealing with an FFL nightmare while I"m overseas and a Hide member is graciously holding onto a rifle I purchased from him months ago while he awaits a resolution to my FFL problems. I can't get THAT level of integrity and camaraderie anywhere else.

 

[srtsam]

all great points but I consider the hide is one of the safest places to conduct business with other members. lots and lots of good and honorable folks here. I have done many high dollar transactions with not one problem. That said " If there is a doubt, there should be no doubt."

 

[HD-Ghost]

NOTE: For added insurance use USPS money orders as payment made out to the seller, with seller's address and reference to item purchased. Hold on to the money order receipt and any correspondence with the seller until the transaction is complete and you are both satisfied. If scammed contact your Postmaster immediately and let them handle the investigation. USPS money orders are considered one of the safest forms of payment because the Postal Service's Fraud Protection agency has zero tolerance for, and rigorously investigates and prosecutes scammers.

This is urban legend. The PO could care less how their money orders are used. If you pay extra, they will send you a copy of the signed MO so you can track the receiver, but that is it. I have been ripped off a number of times (not here), and the PO does nothing. Even if you track the turd down, the cops will do nothing.
Do I use USPS mo's? Yes, but there are no guarantees.

Many good ideas shared above. But it is always "buyer beware".

 

[TheJ]

A month ago I was wondering the same thing myself... and the first things I sold here were a spuhr and a S&B. So starting out with big ticket items I was worried about two things:

1. Am I going to get a fake MO, or some sort of scammed payment?
2. Is anyone going to trust a new guy like me to not scam them?

It took a leap of faith, but now I've done 6 or so transactions with various members here, and all were great people and smooth transactions. I guess for question #2, everyone has to start somewhere. I had some local people here that are long time members and more active on the Hide and asked them to vouch for me. Maybe that helped too?

Using only USPS MO or PayPal made it easier for me as a seller. I trusted that they were legit forms of payment. I've only purchased things via PayPal here, and walked away from a few deals because they didn't accept PayPal. I'd be happy to get a USPS MO on a big purchase here, but on things that are under a couple hundred bucks I'm simply too lazy to go get a MO and mail it out. I'll just order whatever it is new for a few bucks more for convenience.


Because of this, I wouldn't recommend immediately passing off another party because they only want to use one payment method. Just add it to part of your internal equation.... does everything add up with the other party, how they are behaving, their reputation, etc.

 

[Guitarsnguns04]

It's simple for me. If they don't take Paypal I don't buy it. And I will not use Paypal gift option. I wish everyone would just use Paypal and be done with it. It's safe and easy..lol. I sound like I'm endorsing them for gods sake..lol.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

It's simple for me. If they don't take Paypal I don't buy it. And I will not use Paypal gift option. I wish everyone would just use Paypal and be done with it. It's safe and easy..lol. I sound like I'm endorsing them for gods sake..lol.

Are you listening to yourself? Have you read ANY of the multitudes of threads here, warning everyone of the dangers of paypal?


Is this some sort of hidden-camera joke??????

 

[Veer_G]

It's simple for me. If they don't take Paypal I don't buy it. And I will not use Paypal gift option. I wish everyone would just use Paypal and be done with it. It's safe and easy..lol. I sound like I'm endorsing them for gods sake..lol.

It they don't take Paypal, I figure they have their head and their heart wired together and don't need instructions to pour piss from a boot.

 

[Guitarsnguns04]

The dangers of using pp are using pp gift option. The reality is simple. If you use it and just use the regular pp option and they don't send the merchandise you get your money back. Unfortunately not everyone in the world is honest...that's the whole premise behind it. I don't really want to get into any argument over something like this with anyone . It's just the way I do business on the net and what I feel comfortable with. To each his own I guess. If you have a better idea of how to purchase safely with someone you have no clue about let me know. Hope this clears it up for you guys

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

This is urban legend. The PO could care less how their money orders are used. If you pay extra, they will send you a copy of the signed MO so you can track the receiver, but that is it. I have been ripped off a number of times (not here), and the PO does nothing. Even if you track the turd down, the cops will do nothing.

Absolutely correct...............a USPS MO only protects the seller. In the end it's just trust (although a good bullshit meter can help!)

 

[Saito]

I finally had a deal go bad here. Been doing business since I joined yrs ago and no telling how many great transactions I've had. It's time to out this f*^&er and let everyone know about the deal.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/robertrwin.html

Guy was selling a couple USP mags. I sent him a MO(because he'd been a member for years). Never heard another thing, never got my mags and I PMd him quite a few times and finally asked him WTF ? ! ? I've had the post office bone me a few times and lose/steal my shit . . .but I've always been up front about it. No response, being online and ignoring my messages speaks volumes. I suppose I'd feel bad if the guy was dead or something, but I highly doubt it. Anyhow, if I'm out of line, feel free to let me know. I'm not shy. And mods, feel free to look into this if you care to.

 

[shoot4fun]

I finally had a deal go bad here. Been doing business since I joined yrs ago and no telling how many great transactions I've had. It's time to out this f*^&er and let everyone know about the deal.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/members/robertrwin.html

Guy was selling a couple USP mags. I sent him a MO(because he'd been a member for years). Never heard another thing, never got my mags and I PMd him quite a few times and finally asked him WTF ? ! ? I've had the post office bone me a few times and lose/steal my shit . . .but I've always been up front about it. No response, being online and ignoring my messages speaks volumes. I suppose I'd feel bad if the guy was dead or something, but I highly doubt it. Anyhow, if I'm out of line, feel free to let me know. I'm not shy. And mods, feel free to look into this if you care to.

You do know you have the ability to leave feed back now? You had a bad deal with the member in the link but his feed back score is 100% positive.
There is no way to trust a feed back system that allows us to rate each other on deals here unless we utilize it at every opportunity.
That is what I am suggesting to you now. If it was a bad deal then post negative feedback for him.

 

[RTH1800]

I have had 100% positive dealings on SH as a buyer and as a seller. I have had an odd feeling about a few deals and not done them. I think one turned out to be a scam that I know of.

 

[Saito]

You do know you have the ability to leave feed back now? You had a bad deal with the member in the link but his feed back score is 100% positive.
There is no way to trust a feed back system that allows us to rate each other on deals here unless we utilize it at every opportunity.
That is what I am suggesting to you now. If it was a bad deal then post negative feedback for him.

Oh I absolutely realize that(and I've both posted and received feedback). I guess I wanted to give the guy a chance but he hasn't been online for 3 months and seeing this thread reminded me about the sour deal. I'll leave him shitty ass feedback here in a second. Anyhow, this is a great site and I'm glad Frank has kept it up and running.

 

[Saito]

Done and done. Can't see being a member here for years and ruining it all over 70$. I'm sure there's more to the story, but here's my side.

 

[Guest]

https://www.dwolla.com/

25 cents per transaction. No hidden fees. No percentages.

 

[nso123]

For me, no feedback score = no deal. On a large purchase I would definitely do my due diligence. One thing folks are missing on Paypal is that they do not allow transactions for many of the items that we buy and sell on here. Even if you pay the fees on the transaction, you are out of luck with them if it is a prohibited sale.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Bought a bunch of stuff here... sold a few items. Never had anything here but first rate people.

That said... if it seems too good to be true... 'nuff said.

There is a trusted/good guys list somewhere. And mostly the folks who have been around a while or have a lot of posts/feedback are likely to be first rate. Others? Use your judgement. Just because someone is new doesn't mean they aren't as honest and forthright as the decade-long members. IMHO, I'd trust buying here far more than I trust a lot of other sites. It's just that kind of community.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Double3]

That is what the feedback system is for.

Other than that converse with them. I'd say 99.8% of the time guys selling on here and other forums are good to go.

I've found that gun guys are very trustworthy.

 

[Nuke Man]

Good communication is key! I've bought and sold and have had no issues. From what I've seen from others getting scammed, this group bands together and usually finds the bastard. I would hate to be on the wrong end of a bunch of pist off firearm aficionados!
Always trust your gut.

 

[JB02]

The best way to minimize the risk of being ripped off is to review the seller's profile and posting activity. I always look if the seller is someone that contributes regularly to the site, has a good # of posts, and has all positive feedback. I have no issue sending money paypal gift to someone that meets this criteria, even for high value items; I have done it for $3K items on this forum before. Stick around long enough and you'll know who the regulars are and who you can trust.

If someone does not meet that criteria, then I send money via regular paypal. If they don't take paypal and don't meet the criteria above, I'm not going to do business with them.

Also, I wouldn't use regular paypal for a firearm/class III SOT item purchase because that's asking for trouble.

 

[btoor2413]

Pretty sure I just got scammed on here for a Viper Vortex PST 4-16. I sent the money via paypal, not as a gift and he told be he would mail it tomorrow. After about five or 6 pms and an email I have heard nothing from him. How long should I wait before submitting a claim with paypal.

 

[TRAAV]

Pretty sure I just got scammed on here for a Viper Vortex PST 4-16. I sent the money via paypal, not as a gift and he told be he would mail it tomorrow. After about five or 6 pms and an email I have heard nothing from him. How long should I wait before submitting a claim with paypal.

how many days has it been

 

[btoor2413]

how many days has it been

Three days since last contact.

 

[TRAAV]

Yea that would concern me. I think I would send him another message with a 24 hour dead line then file a claim.

 

[Guest]

I've purchased and sold many items on here without a single issue. Like said above, check posts and iTrader feedback score. I've spent thousands on scopes and they all came as promised. Actually have an SWFA 5-20x50 arriving today from a Hide member which he I gladly sent immediate payment and he shipped in less than 24 hours and provided tracking. Its out for deliver as we speak.

Correction: Just arrived in original SWFA packaging as I was typing his post. Another happily completed transaction with a Hide member!

 

[btoor2413]

Is there any reason to contact the authorities or will paypal handle it for me? If it comes to that. I also wouldn't put my money on the police doing anything.

 

[Double3]

Is there any reason to contact the authorities or will paypal handle it for me? If it comes to that. I also wouldn't put my money on the police doing anything.

I believe PayPal will take care of it as long as you didn't send as gift.

 

[Strykervet]

I like to deal with folks that have been on here a while and have at least some good feedback from prior sales, particularly if the deal is for a higher value item. I use registered mail with money orders usually, sometimes paypal like mentioned above, and if you go through USPS you do have recourse because if they use the postal service to commit fraud, that's a crime. It's a pain to get the investigation started and it can take time, but if you have all the appropriate evidence you can get results if you are patient. That's usually enough to get the deal rectified.

I've had multiple deals on here, sold stuff and bought stuff, didn't get feedback from everyone either (some folks just don't do it) and I've bought a $2k+ USO scope, a $1k Leupold and a bunch of other stuff from there on down. Everyone was usually prompt and packaged the stuff well and I got exactly what was advertised. Generally, long standing members with lots of posts and good feedback are trustworthy. We do have a fairly good community here.

I have had only one problem, and because I used USPS I was able to apply some heat on the guy. The owner also was willing to ban him to help further considering I had lots of evidence and had generously given the guy months (he had excuse after excuse). I eventually got my goods, and he even included extra to try and make up for it. However, it should be noted that SH can't and doesn't get involved in transactions between members, other than perhaps helping the occasional poor soul who has tons of evidence and correspondence like I did.

You can also get members that live close by to pay a deadbeat a visit... That happens too.

Overall a good place to deal, just beware. And newbies? I don't deal with them. I consider the PX section a perk for good standing members. Just my .02.

 

[unrepentant]

NOTE: For added insurance use USPS money orders as payment made out to the seller, with seller's address and reference to item purchased. Hold on to the money order receipt and any correspondence with the seller until the transaction is complete and you are both satisfied. If scammed contact your Postmaster immediately and let them handle the investigation. USPS money orders are considered one of the safest forms of payment because the Postal Service's Fraud Protection agency has zero tolerance for, and rigorously investigates and prosecutes scammers.

This is urban legend. The PO could care less how their money orders are used. If you pay extra, they will send you a copy of the signed MO so you can track the receiver, but that is it. I have been ripped off a number of times (not here), and the PO does nothing. Even if you track the turd down, the cops will do nothing.
Do I use USPS mo's? Yes, but there are no guarantees.

Many good ideas shared above. But it is always "buyer beware".

HD-Ghost's reply above to the original claim of USPS MO infallibility is dead balls on. My experience comes from being a USPS window clerk employee for 3 miserable years. The USPS could give a shit about your money order--all that matters to them regarding MO's is accounting. A MO is not treated as a safe method of payment. Inside accountability is almost nonexistent. Theft and forgery of USPS MO's isn't even tracked weekly. It may be monthly now--when I worked there, every quarter, a new 'hot list' of bogus and stolen MO serial numbers was circulated. *Quarterly*. If a money order is lost or stolen, a trace will not be started until 30 days has passed from the date of issue. The fee for initiating a trace (which in this case) would fall on the scammed victim. Even though your complaint isn't that it was lost or stolen, your request is that a query about its' status be made.

What *will* light a fire under a Postal Inspector's ass is that you will be claiming mail fraud. If it involves a firearm, the appeal of your case to them is that much stronger. If they're chasing a $500 loss on a spotting scope, the urgency will be much reduced, but you might get some response.

Three circumstances will attract maximum attention--loss in a Registered Mail transaction, drugs, and firearms.

This is how I conduct all my high-dollar internet purchases:

Buy and send a bank certified check or bank money order. (Not Walmart, not Western Union. B-A-N-K. FDIC.) Banks account for their money orders; most do it "periodically"--every couple days--they can tell you a day after your query if your payment's been cashed and where. Inscribe on the back of your bank draft "Deposit Only". That way, the seller will have to provide ID and/or deposit it into their own bank account--that action will give the Postal Inspectors and name and address.

Send your payment by USPS Registered Mail. Before you finalize your agreement, ask the seller to agree to send the merch by RM, and offer to pay the fees (~ $11 plus 1st-class shipping. It won't be cheap. And FFL's *can* send by USPS. Mine does it all the time.) NOTHING except your own personal bonded courier is as safe a mode of transport as Registered Mail. The short version of Registered Mail is, everyone inside the USPS who handles RM must sign for it. When it disappears, the last person to sign for it is responsible for explaining its' loss. The addressee also must sign for it, and provide ID which should be recorded by the postal employee. RM is slooow--5-7 days across the country--because of the lockbox transit. Indemnity is allowable up to $25,000. It is the bread and butter of the USPS. Postal Inspectors swoop on transactions involving RM. Fraudulent transactions conducted through the mail is federal, but conducted through Registered Mail, it's federal with a nuclear 'F'. All I ever had to do when I made a payment for a high dollar item was explain that I wanted to /guarantee/ that my payment arrived and that I, "and I assumed, my seller" wanted the same result from my mailed payment. No one has ever objected strenuously. Once in a while I was dealing with someone who was in a big hurry for the cash, but in that case, I'd ask, then why they'd accept payment by mail?

If you're the victim of a scam, you can then claim that you sent payment by USPS Registered Mail and were scammed. Even in the antiquated bureaucracy of the document-paper-based USPS, you'll usually get a response from a Postal Inspector within days.

 

[TRAAV]

HD-Ghost's reply above to the original claim of USPS MO infallibility is dead balls on. My experience comes from being a USPS window clerk employee for 3 miserable years. The USPS could give a shit about your money order--all that matters to them regarding MO's is accounting. A MO is not treated as a safe method of payment. Inside accountability is almost nonexistent. Theft and forgery of USPS MO's isn't even tracked weekly. It may be monthly now--when I worked there, every quarter, a new 'hot list' of bogus and stolen MO serial numbers was circulated. *Quarterly*. If a money order is lost or stolen, a trace will not be started until 30 days has passed from the date of issue. The fee for initiating a trace (which in this case) would fall on the scammed victim. Even though your complaint isn't that it was lost or stolen, your request is that a query about its' status be made.

What *will* light a fire under a Postal Inspector's ass is that you will be claiming mail fraud. If it involves a firearm, the appeal of your case to them is that much stronger. If they're chasing a $500 loss on a spotting scope, the urgency will be much reduced, but you might get some response.

Three circumstances will attract maximum attention--loss in a Registered Mail transaction, drugs, and firearms.

This is how I conduct all my high-dollar internet purchases:

Buy and send a bank certified check or bank money order. (Not Walmart, not Western Union. B-A-N-K. FDIC.) Banks account for their money orders; most do it "periodically"--every couple days--they can tell you a day after your query if your payment's been cashed and where. Inscribe on the back of your bank draft "Deposit Only". That way, the seller will have to provide ID and/or deposit it into their own bank account--that action will give the Postal Inspectors and name and address.

Send your payment by USPS Registered Mail. Before you finalize your agreement, ask the seller to agree to send the merch by RM, and offer to pay the fees (~ $11 plus 1st-class shipping. It won't be cheap. And FFL's *can* send by USPS. Mine does it all the time.) NOTHING except your own personal bonded courier is as safe a mode of transport as Registered Mail. The short version of Registered Mail is, everyone inside the USPS who handles RM must sign for it. When it disappears, the last person to sign for it is responsible for explaining its' loss. The addressee also must sign for it, and provide ID which should be recorded by the postal employee. RM is slooow--5-7 days across the country--because of the lockbox transit. Indemnity is allowable up to $25,000. It is the bread and butter of the USPS. Postal Inspectors swoop on transactions involving RM. Fraudulent transactions conducted through the mail is federal, but conducted through Registered Mail, it's federal with a nuclear 'F'. All I ever had to do when I made a payment for a high dollar item was explain that I wanted to /guarantee/ that my payment arrived and that I, "and I assumed, my seller" wanted the same result from my mailed payment. No one has ever objected strenuously. Once in a while I was dealing with someone who was in a big hurry for the cash, but in that case, I'd ask, then why they'd accept payment by mail?

If you're the victim of a scam, you can then claim that you sent payment by USPS Registered Mail and were scammed. Even in the antiquated bureaucracy of the document-paper-based USPS, you'll usually get a response from a Postal Inspector within days.

I personally will not send a USPS money order anymore after having one lost in the mail and having to go through everything trying to figure out if it had been cashed and trying to get a refund. Everyone thinks they are so great but for the buyer they suck. I will send a personal check and if the seller must wait for it to clear then Ill just wait. At least with a check I can call my bank and see if its been cashed and stop payment on it.

 

[AR is for Argyle]

You can also consider an escrow service. There are many scams involving fraudulent escrow companies so make sure you use a known reputable company.

10 tips for spotting online escrow fraud

 

[Jungle George]

NOTE: For added insurance use USPS money orders as payment made out to the seller, with seller's address and reference to item purchased. Hold on to the money order receipt and any correspondence with the seller until the transaction is complete and you are both satisfied. If scammed contact your Postmaster immediately and let them handle the investigation. USPS money orders are considered one of the safest forms of payment because the Postal Service's Fraud Protection agency has zero tolerance for, and rigorously investigates and prosecutes scammers.

This is urban legend. The PO could care less how their money orders are used. If you pay extra, they will send you a copy of the signed MO so you can track the receiver, but that is it. I have been ripped off a number of times (not here), and the PO does nothing. Even if you track the turd down, the cops will do nothing.
Do I use USPS mo's? Yes, but there are no guarantees.

Many good ideas shared above. But it is always "buyer beware".

That's pretty much my take on USPS being ANY help at all. I've had issues with them in the past and just got blown off. Being several billion in red every doesn't lend itself to helpful customer service. I use a platinum Visa card, they will go to bat for you if you get the shaft!

Cheers,

George

 

[QuietShootr]

I've sent cash to forum members here, up to several thousand dollars at once. No problems. This is a good bunch of guys.

I like to deal with folks that have been on here a while and have at least some good feedback from prior sales, particularly if the deal is for a higher value item. I use registered mail with money orders usually, sometimes paypal like mentioned above, and if you go through USPS you do have recourse because if they use the postal service to commit fraud, that's a crime. It's a pain to get the investigation started and it can take time, but if you have all the appropriate evidence you can get results if you are patient. That's usually enough to get the deal rectified.

I've had multiple deals on here, sold stuff and bought stuff, didn't get feedback from everyone either (some folks just don't do it) and I've bought a $2k+ USO scope, a $1k Leupold and a bunch of other stuff from there on down. Everyone was usually prompt and packaged the stuff well and I got exactly what was advertised. Generally, long standing members with lots of posts and good feedback are trustworthy. We do have a fairly good community here.

I have had only one problem, and because I used USPS I was able to apply some heat on the guy. The owner also was willing to ban him to help further considering I had lots of evidence and had generously given the guy months (he had excuse after excuse). I eventually got my goods, and he even included extra to try and make up for it. However, it should be noted that SH can't and doesn't get involved in transactions between members, other than perhaps helping the occasional poor soul who has tons of evidence and correspondence like I did.

You can also get members that live close by to pay a deadbeat a visit... That happens too.

Overall a good place to deal, just beware. And newbies? I don't deal with them. I consider the PX section a perk for good standing members. Just my .02.