Buying land help

[jheat308]

So I'm turning 30 this year and wanting to get some land. I mostly want it for a tree farm and bug out location for the next 15 years than retire build a house on when all is paid off. Looking in north OK or east Texas and I would like to get away with owner finance with 10% down. Some questions that I would like help with.
1. Should I get multiple small or one big plat?
2. What type of retun should I see in first, second and final cuts for pine ( today's prices )
3. I live in Dfw and would like to keep within 4 hour drive. Should I look at other states/ if so where?

All help is welcome and thanks in advance.

 

[GBTX01]

tag. I'm interested in the answers also. Oklahoma land prices are so much cheaper than Texas it is stupid!

 

[oughtsix]

Tree revenue is dependent on a lot of things so without a tract in mind this is a difficult question to answer. I know prices have been stabilizing lately for saw, chip, and pulp wood. So It should be easy to get an idea once you know what the stand looks like.

ETA: The fact that I find north Texans insufferable as a group notwithstanding, OK is much cheaper both in initial price and, (as far as I know) in property taxes.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I bought land in Grayson County, TX and had to come up with 25% down on a land loan. If you only want to put down 10% you are better off if you buy a house with land. East Texas might be better as far as growing trees. OK and North Texas have been in draught conditions, although this year has been better than the last few. Need more rain.

Edit: I run cattle and sheep, so my property taxes are low. However, there's always work to do and things that need to be fixed. It never ends and it cost money to kept it going.

 

[CMH]

10% down on owner financing may be hard to find. Also, I've penciled the tree idea every way I know how, and I can't find a good return in it. Unless someone has established trees and they essentially give them away with the underlying land.

 

[jheat308]

So you have done the calculations and been looking and think other than raw land value increasing its not a good investment?

 

[catswithguns]

Wherever you buy, make sure you check out the potential for oil & gas exploration. It is very rare to get the minerals with the surface anymore, in Oklahoma, the mineral owner's rights as to ingress and egress are superior to the surface owners when and if they decide to drill.

 

[CMH]

I have. The conclusion I came to was that income from trees is 1/6 to 1/10 of the overall long-term raw land value increase - and that doesn't contemplate something catastrophic happening. When you get really serious about looking into it, there are more expenses than one realizes. As MtnCreek noted above, at least first thinning is an expense. I have also looked at more cash oriented crops - hardwoods that have more board value as well as a revenue stream from the fruits/nuts, etc. I couldn't get what I wanted as a return - not even close. This is all considering starting from near scratch. Like I said above if you can buy an established place at a discount, that changes things. I have been looking for quite a while and have never seen anything close to such a deal on one. However, we are in different parts of the country, so none of this should be taken as absolute - just a case study to consider as you make your plans in your area.

 

[Copen1822]

" I run cattle and sheep, so my property taxes are low. "

I'm signed up for every Ag, forestry, conservation break I could find. It makes a big difference on taxes for me.

On the pines, you also need to find out if pine beetles are a problem in the area.

With set pines, first thinning is an expense, not income.

At what age are you doing your 1st thin that it's an expense? I assume your talking about Loblolly?

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Figure 15 to 20 years for thinning, pulpwood, etc. 30 years for saw timber. Don't plan on getting rich.

 

[jheat308]

Thanks for all the input guys. Getting with the forest service for a talk and have asked a friend of a friend for an introduction to an older gentlemen who is a long term tree farmer. Going to get as much knowledge as I can before putting real money down.

 

[Glen1978]

Aint no way I would let a crew on my place to clear cut. The land is TRASH after they leave in my opinion. Just buy some land over in East Texas....I live down by Palestine and pay $700/year on 15 acres and a 2400 sq/ft shop/apartment. I am ag though. Land is cheaper in Oklahoma or Arkansas for that matter.

 

[ChemE1975]

jumping off from the oil and mineral rights- you need to find out about water rights as well. find out if the land is on an adjudicated water basin or not. if it is adjudicated, you will have only a finite amount of water you are legally allowed to draw (well water). if you happen to have surface water on the property you will likely have some amount of riparian rights to a portion of the flow- this would be in addition to the groundwater rights.