Caliber and equip

[sgtusmc_nc]

Just curious what everyone is using? At mammoth last week I noticed a lot of 260's, 243's a few wsm,s,ackleys. Our two teams ran 300's as primary and 308's as secondary.

I'm really curious about calibers, rifle type, spotting scopes etc!

 

[boss]

Re: Caliber and equip

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgtusmc_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious what everyone is using? At mammoth last week I noticed a lot of 260's, 243's a few wsm,s,ackleys. Our two teams ran 300's as primary and 308's as secondary.

I'm really curious about calibers, rifle type, spotting scopes etc! </div></div>

Here is a link to another thread that might help:

Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Caliber and equip

Would be interesting to know what the most common barrell contour and weight of rifle is used in these competitions.

 

[sgtusmc_nc]

Re: Caliber and equip

I was just curious since I run mostly police comps and that's all 308, but at mammoth there was a huge difference in caliber choices

 

[turbo54]

Re: Caliber and equip

Nice shooting with you in squad 5.

I was the fellow with the uber-long bare-stainless barrel 284.

I've been at these comps a couple years now and I've come to the realization that if you can't connect with a 308, you'll PROBABLY NOT be able to connect with anything else, either....except for a laser beam.

The higher performance cartridges do give a degree of forgiveness, but make no mistake...as primary shooter, I didn't have so much as ONE dead-on hold at MSC last weekend. In fact, I don't think I ever even had so little wind as to be able to "hold the edge". I was holding off on every shot, and thats with a .64 BC 7mm 175smk @ 2825fps.

No doubt, excellent shooters can benefit from better exterior ballistics and score a couple more points. However, those are the same shooters that will do great with a 308, also.

Food for thought:

Peter and I shot MSC last year with 308s. We placed in the 59th percentile.

We both upgraded - him to a 260, and me to a 284.

We placed in the 59th percentile again this year.

As for spotters: You have few choices. Either find a used Bushnell Excursion for ~$350, or get a Leupy Mark4. The next step up from there is a BIG STEP.

 

[TxShooter63]

Re: Caliber and equip

Bryan Litz's new book explains statistically how better ballistics and more accurate equipment helps you and how much. If you have improved your equipment and haven't seen an improvement in performance then certainly buying more equipment isn't going to help you. Those who succeed at long range competitions have good equipment but more importantly they practice, often. If you are unable to devote time to practice and or to attain good training, then spending money on better rifles is money wasted. There is never a shortcut to success for most of us, hard work, and more hard work....

 

[sgtusmc_nc]

Re: Caliber and equip

Thanks turbo, we will have to stick with the 308's and 300wm since that's what we carry, I totally agree with you about calibers, the winners would still have won with 308's! Txshooter63 I agree with you as we'll! There's no reason for us to shoot with something we are not going to carry at work. I have read both Bryan's books and they are awesome! When it comes to equiepment I think the only thing our team lacked was a good spotting scope on more than one occasion at msc we realized how much we needed it. I will say that there were a lot of very expensive and very nice guns out there, but even with our dept guns I never felt outclassed by equiepment, just outshot by better marksmen lol

 

[temecula]

Re: Caliber and equip

That is an good idea. I'm stick with what i have for now

 

[DT1]

Re: Caliber and equip

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgtusmc_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just curious what everyone is using? At mammoth last week I noticed a lot of 260's, 243's a few wsm,s,ackleys. Our two teams ran 300's as primary and 308's as secondary.

I'm really curious about calibers, rifle type, spotting scopes etc!</div></div>

I'm not sure what the caliber/equipment breakdown at Mammoth was, but I ro'd a stage and picked up most of the brass after the teams hiked off to their next stage.

After sorting it out for the past two evenings in my basement, it looks like 75%+ of it was 308W. There was some 260R, 6.5Creed, 243W and 300WM etc and a little 223 but the vast majority was 308 which leads me to think that many teams were shooting both primary and secondary with 308.

The top 10 or so teams finished where they did b/c they can shoot, not due to caliber or equipment. True, most of the top teams shot primary with a "wind cheater" type caliber but nobody should think they could rise to the top from the middle by changing caliber or equipment.

The winners of the match, Daniel and Tyler shoot for the AMU. Their full time job all day every day is to practice and shoot matches. They have virtually unlimited resources to assure they do well. This includes time, ammo, practice facilities, equipment and, most importantly TALENT. They shoot 100's of 1,000's of rounds each year to get to the top and stay at the top. They're great shooters before joining the AMU and get better from there.

All that to say, few people are really going to compete with them given their advantages in talent and resources. When they're not kicking ass at a sniper match, they're kicking ass at a multi-gun match. Bottom line, they're just fantastic shooters. Glad they're on my side!

Bring what you have or what you're issued to the comps. Most importantly, practice, have fun and keep things in perspective.

 

[sgtusmc_nc]

Re: Caliber and equip

100% agree. We shoot these matches as training aids, and gun time. The equipment we bring to matchs is the equip we bring to work. But as an avid shooter and competitor I'm always curious what others shoot and why? It's always awesome to just sit back watch and learn from some of these guys who shoot,train every day! You can learn so much if you listen. I learned a lot at this comp met a lot of great people and had a lot of fun with squad 5.

 

[nicko]

Re: Caliber and equip

The 300 is going to shoot almost identical to a .260 with the exception of recoil I started with a 300 and only swapped to a .260 because of recoil for follow ups and shorter stoke. That's all you will gain goin to a high efficent short action and cheaper to reload and a little lighter gun.

 

[TxShooter63]

Re: Caliber and equip

It is pretty funny to compare my .260's ballistic data to my .300WM. It isn't identical but it is damn close to identical. For the record, shooters of equal talent will win with better equipment. It is not impossible for a .308 to be competitive in a major match but it is nearly impossible. The statistics will support that when you run the analysis. I am working very hard to become a top level shooter and there are only two things that I have learned to be fact. 1. You must take equipment out of the equation. Everything must work, everytime and it must offer you at least ballistic and optical equality to your competitors if not superiority. 2. You must have the time and a facility where you can practice regularly. My training is scheduled and organized in modules that consist of short range, medium range,and long range. I practice all distances from the the same props and try to almost never shoot from the prone position. I make myself do the things I don't like doing until I don't mind doing them! If your practicing and your comfortable, you are practicing wrong.

Good luck and good shooting.

 

[bmarc69]

Re: Caliber and equip

FWIW I do believe the AMU team shot 300wm primary and 308 secondary. The advantage comes mostly into play on UKD stages. Flatter trajectories leave more room for erors in ranging. Also more forgiving on the wind calls.

 

[sgtusmc_nc]

Re: Caliber and equip

There are plusses and minuses to both, I don't have a 260 but I do have a comp 243 shooting 115 dtacs that I play with. I'll say tht one thing I learned t mammoth was my 300 was much more forgiving to errors in wind calls then some of the competitors I talked to who were running 260 and the like. They told me when they made similar wind calls as I did they were way off. I agree that there are better ballistic choices thn the 300 and 308 but tht doesn't mean you can't compete. Great competitors are great regardless off heir gear, better gear just makes them that much better to a point. All in all I compete just for the experience and in hopes of getting better, that the training and experience will carry over to my job.