Called Flier

[Sterling Shooter]

Yesterday, someone on the range showed me his 100 yard group. One shot on the target was penned a "called flier". Thing is, this "shooter" didn't know anything about calling shots. Conversation revealed he had just marked the target as he had seen it done before, sort of a monkey see, monkey do thing I suppose. At any rate, I've never liked the phrase called flier, as it is meant to imply that the gun is O.K. But, don't we already know that the gun is O.K. since, unless the rifle is broken, the bullet will always go in the direction the barrel is pointed?

Therefore, instead of "called flier" maybe the marked description should be "rifle barrel was pointed here". Of course, since that's what should be understood without saying, I'm wondering what the point is for any excuse to be marked on the target. And, what about the remaining shots, perhaps they should be labled "called right-in-there".

 

[doc_taylor77]

Re: Called Flier

I have always undertood a "called shot" to be instructional. If you can call a flyer, you should be able to also cite the error that caused the flyer. And if you can do that, well, you can improve. Why shoot, if not to get better?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Called Flier

Calling shots is an aid to properly trouble-shooting shooter error. It primarily serves to indicate, reveal, and/or distinguish wind, position, trigger control, and sight adjustment needs. But, marking a target "called flier" seems to highlight the obvious. If the shooter did not properly call the shot, at least he could blame it on the wind.

 

[DWood]

Re: Called Flier

It sometimes is an excuse for one bad shot in an otherwise small group.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Called Flier

I've never marked a target with "called flier" but I have looked back at my buddies and said something like "son of a bitch, pulled that one" then you look back at the target and sure nuff, there she is, all by herself... I say its still part of your "group" though.

Its not like hadji, a deer or a hostage holding psycho will fall down and "play" dead when you say "called flier" so we need to do our best make them all count and people using excuses like called flier are not helping. I say said flier counts and if it opens a four shot 1/2" group up to 3" five shot... So be it

 

[taliv]

Re: Called Flier

the way i use the terms, "called fliers" are mutually exclusive.

I call shots to indicate where i think the sights were when the gun went off. (especially when shooting other than prone)

Fliers are UNEXPLAINED misses. Could be ammo (more often than not I believe, as little things like neck tension or a piece of walnut/corn cob in the flash hole can make a difference). Could be wind i didn't see, etc. Maybe too much caffeine and my call is off. But if I just pulled it, it's not a 'flier'; it's a miss

 

[Nazbom]

Sorry to raise a dead post but am searching for info on "fliers" and this post fit the best. I was shooting a new rifle yesterday and today and a bunch of my groups had a "flier" after reading this (and several other) threads a lot of the points hit home but I have several questions.

On several of my shots I was able to "call" the flier, by doing so I knew I screwed something up, trigger squeeze, a flinch, etc. I knew I had made a mistake and sure enough it showed up. The perplexing part is several, if not most, of my groups had the "odd man out" shot. Two shots close or touching and a third separate and to me "unexplained". I also believe as stated above that the gun will shoot where the barrel is pointed, however I know from past experience and other conversations and boards that things like primers, case prep, and other factors can influence shot placement as well. My quest for answers stems from that when I am shooting my Savage 12V HB Varmiter, .223 Rem with handloads, 69 Gr Sierra HPBT, cases weighed (trimmed and all the other prep work that goes into hand loading) and shoot I can get consistent shot groups that are tight and any fliers are usually explained by a fault of my own. Occaisionaly my groups will open up and there will be fliers but I know it's operator error and go at it again, occasionally I cannot figure it out.

Currently, I am shooting a Czech VZ 24 Mauser that has been sporterized and with a new barrel chambered in .308 Win. I zeroed the weapon using some M118 Ammo I had. I stopped and cleaned the barrel after several shots (new barrel) and was grouping pretty good. I am learning the gun, it's intricacies and feel. I also am working up some loads for the .308 Win to use in the Mauser. I have two loads I am working on (mainly because reloading components are far and few between lately) but my main one is 165 gr SPBT Hornady, 40.5 grs IMR 3031, Win LR primers. I have never used Win primers before, but again low supply. On all of my shot groups today, after establishing a solid zero, i would have one flier in almost every shot group. I know one was caused by my darn dog running and I reacted and noticeably pulled the shot, another I literally felt myself flinch before the firing pin struck, the others I am not sure. The bottom line is I am not happy with my performance, I am applying the fundamentals but need to stop sending shots wild (and by wild the shots are from 1/2 to 1 1/2" from group). The Mauser has a sporter contour barrel, wood stock which I glass bedded as it was atrocious for fit. I time and space my shots as I know heat will affect the barrel and shot placement.

I apologize again for my ramblings, I just wanted to include what info I could. I like to shoot, I do it fairly often and I want to become better. I know you need to proctice to achieve that but also you need to practice correctly. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Bout 45 years ago when I was shooting on the UGA rifle team, our coach routinely would have us call our shots. He did this in order to make us be constantly aware of our sight picture and trigger control. It served, also, to fine tune our zero. Shifting from prone to kneeling to standing can generate little positional quirks that can cause one to have slight shifts of cheek-weld, etc., reflecting in slight movements from zero.

When you're trying to cut a dot about the size of a pin head, or smaller, it can make the difference between shooting a possible and shooting a 90.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Bout 45 years ago when I was shooting on the UGA rifle team, our coach routinely would have us call our shots. He did this in order to make us be constantly aware of our sight picture and trigger control. It served, also, to fine tune our zero. Shifting from prone to kneeling to standing can generate little positional quirks that can cause one to have slight shifts of cheek-weld, etc., reflecting in slight movements from zero.

When you're trying to cut a dot about the size of a pin head, or smaller, it can make the difference between shooting a possible and shooting a 90.

For 100 yard reduced course targets, I've got a zero for each stage of the NM course of fire. You understand that any change in the relationship between the shooter, gun, and ground will change recoil resistance, meaning the bullet will go someplace other than where expected. Some here with far less experience than you it appears do not understand when the position changes so too will the zero.

 

[kraigWY]

Calling shots, including bad shots is necessary. I don't like the term "called flier", its a bad shot for what ever reason.

I'll admit, I jerk one ever now and then, trying to beat a wind change, or just plain flinch. That needs to be recorded, (and the reason, jerked that one, drop the muzzle on that shot).

I plot all shots in the score book. Then later I draw a line from 12 to 6, and from 3 to 9, counting each shot in each quarter. If there isn't an equal number of shots per quarter (regardless of size of the group) then check your zero. Your flinches, pulls or what ever, have to be discarded.

Zeros can be different for different ranges. Maybe not a zero change, but just a different zero. I had a bit of a zero change between Camp Robinson and 29 Palms with my M1A, A bigger difference between 29 Palms and Ft Lewis at 1000 with my Model 70 bolt gun.

Its a jerk or flinch, write it down that way, a "called flier" is a drunk pilot at the O Club.

Recording the reason for the bad shot is just as, if not more important the recording the shot placement. Shows your failings which I have. Tells me what I got to work on.

The most important part of any target, score or data book is HONESTY.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Kraig, Sterling;

Thanks for coming to may aid. I really didn't know, at the time, how to express the dynamics that go into multi-positional shooting.

All I know is that "The Sarge" was a great coach and the coached us to the '68 championship.

He'd call the clock down with a slow steady voice, and when ya let the round off, he'd IMMEDIATELY say, "Call it."

We'd say something like, "Cut the bull at 10" or "X at 1" and he'd interpret our shot/call and make adjustments. Damn he was good.