anyone got a FN-AR or Winchester AR- I have the mossy camo model heavy barrel thats made in Belgium. It shoots quite well would like to here from anyone who has bought a FN-AR or Winchester AR 308 only mods planned are full 1911 rail and a brake for recoil.
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calling all FN-AR owners
- Thread starter pale horse
- Start date
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
I've got a heavy barrel. Had Mark at Short Action Custom install a PWS PRC brake and tune the trigger to just under 3 lbs. I'm rather pleased with the rifle, its very accurate and very reliable. I've seen several sub .5 MOA groups out to 300 yards with GMM 168 and 175. Very consistently shoots under 1 MOA with several brands.
Keep in mind it's not a military type weapon by any stretch of the imagination. Field stripping is ridiculous at best, and a giant pain in the ass at worst. Actually there is no "field strip" per say, for instance taking the bolt out is kind of a dick dance in and of itself. Its still very much a BAR in most respects.
I consider it to be a sort of police precision rifle if you will.
For the money, there's really nothing else to compare to it.
I've got a heavy barrel. Had Mark at Short Action Custom install a PWS PRC brake and tune the trigger to just under 3 lbs. I'm rather pleased with the rifle, its very accurate and very reliable. I've seen several sub .5 MOA groups out to 300 yards with GMM 168 and 175. Very consistently shoots under 1 MOA with several brands.
Keep in mind it's not a military type weapon by any stretch of the imagination. Field stripping is ridiculous at best, and a giant pain in the ass at worst. Actually there is no "field strip" per say, for instance taking the bolt out is kind of a dick dance in and of itself. Its still very much a BAR in most respects.
I consider it to be a sort of police precision rifle if you will.
For the money, there's really nothing else to compare to it.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a heavy barrel. Had Mark at Short Action Custom install a PWS PRC brake and tune the trigger to just under 3 lbs. I'm rather pleased with the rifle, its very accurate and very reliable. I've seen several sub .5 MOA groups out to 300 yards with GMM 168 and 175. Very consistently shoots under 1 MOA with several brands.
Keep in mind it's not a military type weapon by any stretch of the imagination. Field stripping is ridiculous at best, and a giant pain in the ass at worst. Actually there is no "field strip" per say, for instance taking the bolt out is kind of a dick dance in and of itself. Its still very much a BAR in most respects.
I consider it to be a sort of police precision rifle if you will.
For the money, there's really nothing else to compare to it. </div></div>
I had Mr. Gordon install a Little Bastard brake and do the trigger too on mine. Vast improvement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a heavy barrel. Had Mark at Short Action Custom install a PWS PRC brake and tune the trigger to just under 3 lbs. I'm rather pleased with the rifle, its very accurate and very reliable. I've seen several sub .5 MOA groups out to 300 yards with GMM 168 and 175. Very consistently shoots under 1 MOA with several brands.
Keep in mind it's not a military type weapon by any stretch of the imagination. Field stripping is ridiculous at best, and a giant pain in the ass at worst. Actually there is no "field strip" per say, for instance taking the bolt out is kind of a dick dance in and of itself. Its still very much a BAR in most respects.
I consider it to be a sort of police precision rifle if you will.
For the money, there's really nothing else to compare to it. </div></div>
I had Mr. Gordon install a Little Bastard brake and do the trigger too on mine. Vast improvement.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
I was Mark's first customer that convinced him to put a break on the FNAR. Now, he is the FNAR guru
The PWS PRC brake looks like it should have just come with the weapon, it blends so well. He also did a trigger job to about 3.5lbs. The barrel has a cold hammered forged barrel and i have shot 1/2MOA consistently to 300 yards and 4" group at 600 yards. Not much more you can ask from a semi auto.
Lets face it that LWRC REPR and KAC guns that cost $8k dont do much better than that. Also, i really dont care about the bolt not striping easily. My buddy has hundreds of rounds through his and it looks clean as anything. With the piston system, you just dont have the crud dumping back in the receiver. With FGM175gr i am getting 2605ft/sec which is also great for a gas gun and will easily get you to 900+yards.
Name another semi 308 piston that can give you sub-MOA accuracy for less than $1200? That is right. It doesnt exist. Here is my setup along with the NF 2.5-10x LV reticle which happens to perfectly match the ballistics out of this rifle all the way out to 600 yards
I was Mark's first customer that convinced him to put a break on the FNAR. Now, he is the FNAR guru
The PWS PRC brake looks like it should have just come with the weapon, it blends so well. He also did a trigger job to about 3.5lbs. The barrel has a cold hammered forged barrel and i have shot 1/2MOA consistently to 300 yards and 4" group at 600 yards. Not much more you can ask from a semi auto. Lets face it that LWRC REPR and KAC guns that cost $8k dont do much better than that. Also, i really dont care about the bolt not striping easily. My buddy has hundreds of rounds through his and it looks clean as anything. With the piston system, you just dont have the crud dumping back in the receiver. With FGM175gr i am getting 2605ft/sec which is also great for a gas gun and will easily get you to 900+yards.
Name another semi 308 piston that can give you sub-MOA accuracy for less than $1200? That is right. It doesnt exist. Here is my setup along with the NF 2.5-10x LV reticle which happens to perfectly match the ballistics out of this rifle all the way out to 600 yards
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea
Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308.Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? </div></div>
Here check this out:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cLuznnkmy2k"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cLuznnkmy2k" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? </div></div>
Here check this out:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cLuznnkmy2k"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cLuznnkmy2k" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308. </div></div>
A 308 has as much energy at 500 yards as a 30-30 does at 100 yards, and more momentum and better bullets. The 30-30 has taken more deer in the 100-150 yard zone than most any other rifle. I think op is safe hunting deer out to 500+ yards. Heck at that distance you still have more energy than a 44 mag has at the muzzle.
The FN-AR is definitely on my list of must have's, one day.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea
Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308. </div></div>A 308 has as much energy at 500 yards as a 30-30 does at 100 yards, and more momentum and better bullets. The 30-30 has taken more deer in the 100-150 yard zone than most any other rifle. I think op is safe hunting deer out to 500+ yards. Heck at that distance you still have more energy than a 44 mag has at the muzzle.
The FN-AR is definitely on my list of must have's, one day.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stellite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308. </div></div>
A 308 has as much energy at 500 yards as a 30-30 does at 100 yards, and more momentum and better bullets. The 30-30 has taken more deer in the 100-150 yard zone than most any other rifle. I think op is safe hunting deer out to 500+ yards. Heck at that distance you still have more energy than a 44 mag has at the muzzle.
The FN-AR is definitely on my list of must have's, one day. </div></div>
You missed the major points in my thread. At 500+ yards a 2mph wind miscall will throw your shot off by 11". That is the difference between hitting the vitals or wounding the animal and having it run away and dying in misery. Also, most 308 hunting bullets do not expand any or at all at at those distances and will just zip right through.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stellite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea
Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308. </div></div>A 308 has as much energy at 500 yards as a 30-30 does at 100 yards, and more momentum and better bullets. The 30-30 has taken more deer in the 100-150 yard zone than most any other rifle. I think op is safe hunting deer out to 500+ yards. Heck at that distance you still have more energy than a 44 mag has at the muzzle.
The FN-AR is definitely on my list of must have's, one day. </div></div>
You missed the major points in my thread. At 500+ yards a 2mph wind miscall will throw your shot off by 11". That is the difference between hitting the vitals or wounding the animal and having it run away and dying in misery. Also, most 308 hunting bullets do not expand any or at all at at those distances and will just zip right through.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
Mine is on it's way for a member here on the hide! I'll post my thoughts when it arrives. Can't wait!!
Mine is on it's way for a member here on the hide! I'll post my thoughts when it arrives. Can't wait!!
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
Just look at that Video, small parts everywhere, no thanks, i'll take an AR-10.
20 round mags are $90 ?
Just look at that Video, small parts everywhere, no thanks, i'll take an AR-10.
20 round mags are $90 ?
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
"you'll have to be careful, if you pull this too far back theres some pins under here you'll lose"
-words that should never be included in a field stripping instructions
"you'll have to be careful, if you pull this too far back theres some pins under here you'll lose"
-words that should never be included in a field stripping instructions
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stellite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308. </div></div>
A 308 has as much energy at 500 yards as a 30-30 does at 100 yards, and more momentum and better bullets. The 30-30 has taken more deer in the 100-150 yard zone than most any other rifle. I think op is safe hunting deer out to 500+ yards. Heck at that distance you still have more energy than a 44 mag has at the muzzle.
The FN-AR is definitely on my list of must have's, one day. </div></div>
You missed the major points in my thread. At 500+ yards a 2mph wind miscall will throw your shot off by 11". That is the difference between hitting the vitals or wounding the animal and having it run away and dying in misery. Also, most 308 hunting bullets do not expand any or at all at at those distances and will just zip right through. </div></div>
you made two points. The first was what I responded to. There are plenty of bullets in the heavier weights that can still expand. So terminal ballistics and power is definitely there to kill deer.
As for the second point, which I did not respond to. <span style="font-weight: bold">There is plenty of data out there on shots at very long ranges with the 308, consistently.
</span> Also, there is more selection of bullets for 308 than most any other large caliber round. I think one can be found that will work.
And we aren't even talking about documented 308 sniper kills at 1000 yard ranges on a man size target. longest confirmed 7.62x51 kill is 1250 meters. So much for wind. I have heard of a few at 1300+ meters. Unconfirmed and out of a 16 inch barreled semi auto. The ability is there. I am definitely not saying that 1000 + yard shots are killing shots for tough deer, but just wanted to show that out to 500-600 yards it is not an issue with the right scope and bullet type. Also, many of the newer higher energy rounds offer more performance and better terminal ballistics. So, is there better long range cartridges yes. Mostly magnums. Is there better cartridges stuffed into an assault rifle type platform? no.
OP, a google search will show that long 308 shots are capable. Heck, I did a quick search and got a thread on here about this very same issue:
https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1181095&page=1
plenty of information out in that thread to show the distances of 500-600 are no issue, either ballistically or energy wise.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stellite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: petrochempros</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you need a tool to strip it? If so would it be possible to CAD up some thumb screws to replace the screws that are in it now to allow disassembly without a tool?
I think for scopes i am gonna look at a Mark 4 8.5-25x50mm ER/T M1 FFP... I really want to reach out there and be able to tag dear easily out past 500+ yds. </div></div>
By no means to crap on your parade by i think a 308 for hunting past 500 yards is definitely unethical. Even an Accubond 180gr bullet traveling at 2580ft/sec is only traveling at ~1600ft/sec which is way below its terminal performance and expansion. Also, for hunting purposes if you misread the wind by 2mph at 600 yards you are now more than 10" off from your original POI.
I personally think hunting is not target shooting and there are far better cartridges to hunt with at very long distances and 308 is not one of them. Can it be done? Sure. You can steer the wheels in your car with your feet but it doesnt make it such a good idea
Most people agree that 400-500yards is really your upper upper limit for HUMANELY hunting deer with a 308. </div></div>A 308 has as much energy at 500 yards as a 30-30 does at 100 yards, and more momentum and better bullets. The 30-30 has taken more deer in the 100-150 yard zone than most any other rifle. I think op is safe hunting deer out to 500+ yards. Heck at that distance you still have more energy than a 44 mag has at the muzzle.
The FN-AR is definitely on my list of must have's, one day. </div></div>
You missed the major points in my thread. At 500+ yards a 2mph wind miscall will throw your shot off by 11". That is the difference between hitting the vitals or wounding the animal and having it run away and dying in misery. Also, most 308 hunting bullets do not expand any or at all at at those distances and will just zip right through. </div></div>
you made two points. The first was what I responded to. There are plenty of bullets in the heavier weights that can still expand. So terminal ballistics and power is definitely there to kill deer.
As for the second point, which I did not respond to. <span style="font-weight: bold">There is plenty of data out there on shots at very long ranges with the 308, consistently.
</span> Also, there is more selection of bullets for 308 than most any other large caliber round. I think one can be found that will work.
And we aren't even talking about documented 308 sniper kills at 1000 yard ranges on a man size target. longest confirmed 7.62x51 kill is 1250 meters. So much for wind. I have heard of a few at 1300+ meters. Unconfirmed and out of a 16 inch barreled semi auto. The ability is there. I am definitely not saying that 1000 + yard shots are killing shots for tough deer, but just wanted to show that out to 500-600 yards it is not an issue with the right scope and bullet type. Also, many of the newer higher energy rounds offer more performance and better terminal ballistics. So, is there better long range cartridges yes. Mostly magnums. Is there better cartridges stuffed into an assault rifle type platform? no.
OP, a google search will show that long 308 shots are capable. Heck, I did a quick search and got a thread on here about this very same issue:
https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1181095&page=1
plenty of information out in that thread to show the distances of 500-600 are no issue, either ballistically or energy wise.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
here is the now very well known 1250 meter shot in 308.
http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/3272.html
I have heard of an unconfirmed 1350 meter shot using a 16 inch semi auto 308.
here is the now very well known 1250 meter shot in 308.
http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/3272.html
I have heard of an unconfirmed 1350 meter shot using a 16 inch semi auto 308.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
^^^I get your point. But just because it has been done and can be done doesnt make it a damn good idea. There are many confirmed cases of divers chute no opening up and still surviving. That doesnt mean i am gonna jump with no chute. Even in the thread you posted, most of the shots are 500 or less. The longer ones are with other calibers and one specifically mentions that the wind made him miss the first shot.
Please tell me "what the heavier rounds" are that supposed to expand at 1500ft/sec RELIABLY? Pretty much most 308 rounds only reliably expand to about 1800ft/sec at best. The best expansions you will find are at 2200 ft/sec or above.
Here is a bullet that was going 1800ft/sec at impact. This is called a failure.
This is what it should look like at +2500f/sec:
Here is also a Barnes TSX bullet that failed to expand once velocity drops below about 2000ft/sec:
Sure, if you make a head shot, who cares, you dont need any expansion, but making head shots at 500+yards hunting is irresponsible. And quoting that a "human kill" has been done at x range is irrelevant in this conversation. When we are killing terrorists, we really dont care if they die humanely or not, or if we have to put multiple shots in them to die. This has nothing to do with hunting ethically.
^^^I get your point. But just because it has been done and can be done doesnt make it a damn good idea. There are many confirmed cases of divers chute no opening up and still surviving. That doesnt mean i am gonna jump with no chute. Even in the thread you posted, most of the shots are 500 or less. The longer ones are with other calibers and one specifically mentions that the wind made him miss the first shot.
Please tell me "what the heavier rounds" are that supposed to expand at 1500ft/sec RELIABLY? Pretty much most 308 rounds only reliably expand to about 1800ft/sec at best. The best expansions you will find are at 2200 ft/sec or above.
Here is a bullet that was going 1800ft/sec at impact. This is called a failure.
This is what it should look like at +2500f/sec:
Here is also a Barnes TSX bullet that failed to expand once velocity drops below about 2000ft/sec:
Sure, if you make a head shot, who cares, you dont need any expansion, but making head shots at 500+yards hunting is irresponsible. And quoting that a "human kill" has been done at x range is irrelevant in this conversation. When we are killing terrorists, we really dont care if they die humanely or not, or if we have to put multiple shots in them to die. This has nothing to do with hunting ethically.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just look at that Video, small parts everywhere, no thanks, i'll take an AR-10.
20 round mags are $90 ? </div></div>
I've found mags for $59. Yeah it's a pain to take apart, but as has been mentioned since it's piston driven it doesn't get too dirty. It's got a half-lock position as well where the bolt sits half way across the ejection port and you can scrub it pretty easily without taking it out.
There are plenty of AR-10 platforms out there with a 1 MOA or less guarantee. There isn't a single one at this price point and there sure as hell isn't a piston drivn one any where near it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just look at that Video, small parts everywhere, no thanks, i'll take an AR-10.
20 round mags are $90 ? </div></div>
I've found mags for $59. Yeah it's a pain to take apart, but as has been mentioned since it's piston driven it doesn't get too dirty. It's got a half-lock position as well where the bolt sits half way across the ejection port and you can scrub it pretty easily without taking it out.
There are plenty of AR-10 platforms out there with a 1 MOA or less guarantee. There isn't a single one at this price point and there sure as hell isn't a piston drivn one any where near it.
Re: calling all FN-AR owners
I showed the 1000 yard human kills more to depict the stability of a 308 round at distance.
I do not disagree with you about a bullets terminal performance, definitely need the right choice. You need the right bullet for the job and those obviously do not cut it. However, there are and have been for eons two schools of thought. one is the low penetration max energy transfer and the other is penetration and an exit wound is better. Deep penetrating bullets break shoulders and can go through both lungs without exploding on a rib cage, so there is something to be said for less expanding bullets. But lets say that OP wants ultimate expansion at 600 yards+ . You can get that. There are plenty of bullets that provide that. Hornady makes the AMAX and SST, both of which offer expansion at velocities in the 1500 fps range. That takes the 308 out to 700 yards if you are good enough..
If you get hornady's superperformance sst 150 grain/165 grain load, you will drop deer easily out beyond 600 yards if you do your job.
I showed the 1000 yard human kills more to depict the stability of a 308 round at distance.
I do not disagree with you about a bullets terminal performance, definitely need the right choice. You need the right bullet for the job and those obviously do not cut it. However, there are and have been for eons two schools of thought. one is the low penetration max energy transfer and the other is penetration and an exit wound is better. Deep penetrating bullets break shoulders and can go through both lungs without exploding on a rib cage, so there is something to be said for less expanding bullets. But lets say that OP wants ultimate expansion at 600 yards+ . You can get that. There are plenty of bullets that provide that. Hornady makes the AMAX and SST, both of which offer expansion at velocities in the 1500 fps range. That takes the 308 out to 700 yards if you are good enough..
If you get hornady's superperformance sst 150 grain/165 grain load, you will drop deer easily out beyond 600 yards if you do your job.
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